The Jesus Myth

[AmbiguousGuy]

What, specifically, makes you think the synopotics constitute plagiarism?

"Plagiarism" is just a word. I use it to simplify.

So please, please, please... don't get into a lawyerly discussion of the legal concept and start opining that I am "retrojecting my modern ideas into Jesus day" and such as that.

Please?

As I understand it, large strings of text are common between the 3 synoptic gospels.

Yes? No?

I don't want to go any further without first agreeing to that point.

 

[Embarkon]

exactly just like YESHU meant something, but only to those who recognized the sign
wonder what a caveman would think about the NIKE sign
" what a magnificently aesthetic tick this sign is" he might say and weaar it on his head not knowing what a shoe is
LOL u guys dont bother to much about what YESHU means ok lol

 

[fallingblood]

ok show me how one guy writing about jesus's existence translates to support your opinion of the abilities of the rest of the jews then.

What? My opinion of the abilities of the "rest of the Jews" is based on scholarship that deals with literacy in ancient cultures. It has nothing to do with one man writing about the existence of Jesus.

The questions you have been asking simply are of little importance. How many people existed in the world during the first century? How many people during that time wrote about Augustus? As one will see, only a very small minority wrote about Augustus. Only a very small minority of the literate population even wrote about Augustus. And he was an Emperor. That is why your questions are of little importance. It doesn't matter how many Jews existed during that time, and how many Jews were literate.

 

[jelly]

then why use the words majority?

 

[jelly]

exactly just like YESHU meant something, but only to those who recognized the sign
wonder what a caveman would think about the NIKE sign
" what a magnificently aesthetic tick this sign is" he might say and weaar it on his head not knowing what a shoe is
LOL u guys dont bother to much about what YESHU means ok lol

so now I am a caveman and you are here to educate...?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I think Storm covers this very well.

Storm is of course welcome to her personal opinion, even though God disagrees with her in this case quite strongly.

God thinks I'm kicking your butt here. Sorry.

It's not my fault if you simply haven't done any research. You're making the incredible claim, you have the burden of proof. It is as simple as that. I don't have to prove something that is already accepted.

How funny. It reminds me of the abortion issues. I've had people argue that "Abortion is legal!"... as if that's the end of the debate.

You do the same here. You think that you can simple claim that your own views are 'accepted' and since you own the hilltop, it's up to others to knock you off.

Quite curious. Especially since I am standing up here on this mountain peak and can barely make you out down there. You look like an ant, man!

Which only shows that you actually have no knowledge on the subject, and are instead a troll. Thanks for letting us know.

I'm curious. Did you 'get' my story? I mean, you're some kind of Biblical scholar, yes?

So it's important to know whether you could paraphrase my story and explain what I was saying with it, yes?

I mean, if you can't do that, then you probably should find some other field than Biblical study.

I'm really curious. Can you paraphrase the meaning I sent to you by telling that story?

What was I trying to tell you?

 

[sojourner]

"Plagiarism" is just a word. I use it to simplify.

So please, please, please... don't get into a lawyerly discussion of the legal concept and start opining that I am "retrojecting my modern ideas into Jesus day" and such as that.

Please?

As I understand it, large strings of text are common between the 3 synoptic gospels.

Yes? No?

I don't want to go any further without first agreeing to that point.

If you don't mean "plagiarism," don't use "plagiarism."

Yes, it's common knowledge that Matthew and Luke borrowed heavily from Mark, as well as Q -- in addition to adding their own, unique material. There is also the rearrangement of pericopae of both Markan and Q material. None of which constitutes plagiarism.

Let me state my question again, so that you can understand and reply appropriately:
What, specifically, leads you to believe that plagiarism is present in the synoptics?

 

[Storm]

Storm is of course welcome to her personal opinion, even though God disagrees with her in this case quite strongly.

God thinks I'm kicking your butt here. Sorry.

Dude, I like you, but all I can think of is

I haven't read every post, but what I see is fallingblood presenting scholarship and you dismissing it without cause. That's not a debate. It's a YEC tactic.

 

[Embarkon]

what i will say is this- is this the first tradition of YESHU you know about was Christ the first to suffer this execution for this crime- are there not records of this same thing in Jewish historical records or have you even thought of looking

 

[jelly]

death by unga bunga?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Dude, I like you, but all I can think of is....

I like you, too. But I'm pretty sure that your sense of humor and my sense of humor reside in completely different universes.

If you can allow me just a dash of sexism, I'm not sure that I've encountered a female yet who laughs when I tell some of my best jokes. They all stare blankly at me, while at least half the men are doubled over with laughter.

I can't explain it better than that. If it's sexist, then it's sexist. But it's what I honestly notice.

I haven't read every post, but what I see is fallingblood presenting scholarship and you dismissing it without cause. That's not a debate. It's a YEC tactic.

That's a fine opinion. I'd be surprised, actually, if you could read deeply enough into our dialogue to understand what's going on. On the surface, I'm sure it appears as you claim it does.

But think about the YECs. Do you actually spend your time addressing their idiotic scholarship, especially when they are deeply insincere and unprepared for even the most basic honest debate behavior?

I don't. I don't offer them radioactive dating evidence or the geologic column.

First I have to get their attention.

 

[Storm]

I like you, too. But I'm pretty sure that your sense of humor and my sense of humor reside in completely different universes.

If you can allow me just a dash of sexism, I'm not sure that I've encountered a female yet who laughs when I tell some of my best jokes. They all stare blankly at me, while at least half the men are doubled over with laughter.

I can't explain it better than that. If it's sexist, then it's sexist. But it's what I honestly notice.



That's a fine opinion. I'd be surprised, actually, if you could read deeply enough into our dialogue to understand what's going on. On the surface, I'm sure it appears as you claim it does.

But think about the YECs. Do you actually spend your time addressing their idiotic scholarship, especially when they are deeply insincere and unprepared for even the most basic honest debate behavior?

I don't. I don't offer them radioactive dating evidence or the geologic column.

First I have to get their attention.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

If you don't mean "plagiarism," don't use "plagiarism."

My bad. I had forgotten already about your issue with language -- your apparent belief that words mean things.

Would you like a short language lesson? I don't mind stepping aside to a new thread and giving you some rundown on how language actually works. It is and has been the focus of my life for many years.

Yes, it's common knowledge that Matthew and Luke borrowed heavily from Mark, as well as Q -- in addition to adding their own, unique material.

Great! Thank you for answering the question.

There is also the rearrangement of pericopae of both Markan and Q material. None of which constitutes plagiarism.

Plagiarism? Oh, I hope you aren't retrojecting your modern ideas of plagiarism into olden days. That's an actual error.

Let me state my question again, so that you can understand and reply appropriately: What, specifically, leads you to believe that plagiarism is present in the synoptics?

Umm...you just agreed with me about the borrowing and now you ask me why I believe there is borrowing?

Well, because I've heard about it from Biblical scholars and because sojourner just now agreed with me that it exists.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I'm not much good at symbolism. Sorry. If you want to reach me, you'll have to use words.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

so now I am a caveman and you are here to educate...?

Some of my best friends are cavemen, dude.

 

[jelly]

not bad coming from a head hunter

 

[Storm]

I'm not much good at symbolism. Sorry. If you want to reach me, you'll have to use words.

For starters, fallingblood isn't YEC, dishonest, or insincere. S/he may be mistaken, but by denigrating hir character, you just make yourself look bad.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

For starters, fallingblood isn't YEC...

Of course fallingblood isn't YEC. Why would anyone think that?

[and isn't], dishonest, or insincere. S/he may be mistaken, but by denigrating hir character, you just make yourself look bad.

Our opinions differ as to fallingblood's character, although I would never call him the sorts of names as he's called me in our exchanges. That would be impolite.

As for how I look -- hey, I'll have to endure what I endure. God's out there. He would not love me nearly so much if I threw Him aside in order to save my good looks.

 

[Penumbra]

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[sojourner]

Umm...you just agreed with me about the borrowing and now you ask me why I believe there is borrowing?

First off, why do you think that this sort of borrowing, which was common in the ancient world, supports your "arguments" (and I use the term loosely)?

Second, You didn't imply borrowing in the beginning. You implied plagiarism. In case you hadn't noticed, words do have meaning, and when you say things you don't mean, it only adds to your confusion.

I'd like to have my question answered rather than having the boards cluttered with more of your hyperbole:

What, specifically, do you find plagiaristic about the synoptics?