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The Jesus Myth

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angellous_evangellous

Guest
sojourner said:
In order to separate the two, we have to apply Biblical scholarship -- textual criticism -- in order to discover what is hyperbole and what is, perhaps, authentic quotation.
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[That's not textual criticism = determining the nature of the text by comparing manuscripts, etc. You're describing a multi-disciplinarian approach that utilizes rhetorical criticism, syntactical analysis, literary criticism, and so on...]
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
angellous_evangellous said:
[That's not textual criticism = determining the nature of the text by comparing manuscripts, etc. You're describing a multi-disciplinarian approach that utilizes rhetorical criticism, syntactical analysis, literary criticism, and so on...]
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Well, yes, but for the sake of brevity...
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
jelly said:
you are confusing "mythical" with "legendary".
try to keep the thread quite as I don't want to do a lot of leg work answering jokes when I get back from playing "away from the keyboard."
ttyl
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Time to hang up my scholar's cap and become a crack whore.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
jelly said:
you are confusing "mythical" with "legendary".
try to keep the thread quite as I don't want to do a lot of leg work answering jokes when I get back from playing "away from the keyboard."
ttyl
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We would all be better served were you to pollute elsewhere.
 
Dirty Penguin

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
sojourner said:
From what I understand, the mythic Jesus and the historic Jesus are two different personalities. John Dominic Crossan points out that it is highly likely that a man named Jesus did exist and that he was crucified. He goes on to say that his body was probably thrown to the dogs. This puts the two personalities in an extreme juxtaposition. I don't think there's any way we can argue the historic Jesus from evidence other than what has been told and written about him. In order to separate the two, we have to apply Biblical scholarship -- textual criticism -- in order to discover what is hyperbole and what is, perhaps, authentic quotation.
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Thanks..:yes:
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
sojourner said:
From what I understand, the mythic Jesus and the historic Jesus are two different personalities. John Dominic Crossan points out that it is highly likely that a man named Jesus did exist and that he was crucified. He goes on to say that his body was probably thrown to the dogs. This puts the two personalities in an extreme juxtaposition. I don't think there's any way we can argue the historic Jesus from evidence other than what has been told and written about him. In order to separate the two, we have to apply Biblical scholarship -- textual criticism -- in order to discover what is hyperbole and what is, perhaps, authentic quotation.
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Depending on which manuscripts you prefer you can get whatever jesus you want. I find it interesting how the JW use older manuscripts and the divine jesus begins disappearing immediately. Get any older and I imagine the trend would continue to have less mythical elements. It is a big issue not really knowing what was originally written as it seems the story started changing very quickly.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
idav said:
Depending on which manuscripts you prefer you can get whatever jesus you want. I find it interesting how the JW use older manuscripts and the divine jesus begins disappearing immediately.
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Perhaps you could offer a reference to one of these older manuscripts.
 
fallingblood

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
AmbiguousGuy said:
Nah, I can't work with that either. I'm a fictionalist. I create characters. It really doesn't make sense to ask whether my characters were actual historical figures or else imaginary figures. I tried to discuss this earlier but no one seemed interested.
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Then please don't further clog this thread with statements that do not have anything to do with the OP.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
idav said:
Depending on which manuscripts you prefer you can get whatever jesus you want. I find it interesting how the JW use older manuscripts and the divine jesus begins disappearing immediately. Get any older and I imagine the trend would continue to have less mythical elements. It is a big issue not really knowing what was originally written as it seems the story started changing very quickly.
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Q and Thomas both present Jesus as very, very human. It isn't until we get into the newer stuff (post-70 c.e.) that the myth begins to flesh out (so to speak).
 
fallingblood

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Dirty Penguin said:
I'm a myther but not in the strict or "militant" way. My personal view is that the way he is portrayed in the gospels gives me the impression a lot was hyped up about him. That leads me to think that the "biblical" Yeshua did not exist.

I can imagine a flesh and blood Yeshua but trying to determine that I'm not qualified to do. I can personally strip the biblical Yeshua out of the gospels without all the fantastical claims but then I would be accused of "creating a Yeshua that appeals to me"...and I'm not sure how to proceed in determining a real historical character.
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I probably said that comment to quickly, or without thinking. I do have to say that I have actually enjoyed your posts, because they do deal with the subject, and are not full of ranting.

As for your perspective, it is probably a safe one to keep. Trying to determine who the historical Jesus was does, to a point, consist of making him in ones own image. Personally, I think that is a risk worth taking though.
 
fallingblood

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
idav said:
Depending on which manuscripts you prefer you can get whatever jesus you want. I find it interesting how the JW use older manuscripts and the divine jesus begins disappearing immediately. Get any older and I imagine the trend would continue to have less mythical elements. It is a big issue not really knowing what was originally written as it seems the story started changing very quickly.
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Most critical scholars do not just pick which manuscripts they prefer though. There are some manuscripts that are determined to be better. This is for a variety of reasons, such as age of manuscript, comparison to other manuscripts, place of copying of the manuscript, etc. It is much more complicated than that, but there is a method in which one can find the best manuscripts. In fact, many of these methods are used in non-religious writings as well.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
fallingblood said:
Most critical scholars do not just pick which manuscripts they prefer though. There are some manuscripts that are determined to be better. This is for a variety of reasons, such as age of manuscript, comparison to other manuscripts, place of copying of the manuscript, etc. It is much more complicated than that, but there is a method in which one can find the best manuscripts. In fact, many of these methods are used in non-religious writings as well.
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I'd figure that the most popular would survive the test of time but most popular doesn't necessarily mean most accurate and truthful. It's no wonder that miracle versions would get copied ad nauseam.
 
A

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
idav said:
I'd figure that the most popular would survive the test of time but most popular doesn't necessarily mean most accurate and truthful. It's no wonder that miracle versions would get copied ad nauseam.
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We come from a long line of magic-believers and hero-worshipers. Most of the world's population still seems pretty deep in it.
 
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