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The Law Is Often Not About Preventing Crime, But Rather Just Punishing People

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
then that threat is more a commentary on the people who are behaving badly than it is on Christianity.
Christians arw often motivated to poor behaviors, and indeed the Bible does contain many offensive and objectionable passages, like the commands to kill apostates and homosexuals.
What do you think is wrong with nationalism?
It's selfish, egotistical and self destructive. Nationalist often don't play well with others and that isna requirement for getting along with ithers, especially on a global stage.
And how is it you think Christianity is tyrannical?
Have you read the 10 Commandments? It's mostly tyranny (honor thy mother and thy father) with a couple pro social bits that most people don't do default anyways (thiu shalt not kill). Have you read that Jesus confirms his god has a concept of thoughtcrime?
Reread the word's of Jesus. He gave us a choice and gave us the freedom to make that choice. "Follow me or don't". Its your choice.
Follow or face destruction isn't a choice. It's a threat.
We all sin.
Not all of us. I am among the sinless.
But all major religions and even secular philosophies use a version of the word with their own particular associated connotations.
They don't have a concept of transgressing against god. Most gods have more important things to worry about than if we had gay sex or worship other gods.
We all are guilty of failing at some things.
Failing, but failire isn't sin. Sin is from a god who somehow thinks if I wrong a human or have done motjing against another human then I have dome something wrong against this god and must seek his son's forgiveness.
But I cast those shackles off a long time ago amd have been free of sin ever since. I don't think about it anymore or see temptations everywhere.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
Have you read the 10 Commandments? It's mostly tyranny (honor thy mother and thy father) with a couple pro social bits that most people don't do default anyways (thiu shalt not kill). Have you read that Jesus confirms his god has a concept of thoughtcrime?

Honoring your father and mother is tyrannical?
Wow. With thinking like that, no wonder people each other so often these days.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
No. Why not command parents to be worthy of honoring instead of demaning a child honor abusive parents?
According to your signature line, Satan is the one who will teach you about things like that. So why not ask him? If he's so great and loving, then you must think he has all the answers. Not that the current state of the world is an indication of that.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
The evidence shows it, if you're willing to open your eyes. Smaller percentage of the population, yet a larger percentage of those committing crime.

And again you fail to answer my questions.

How do you think that video shows that black people are more prone to shop lifting than others? And how do you imagine that's not a racist statement?

The evidences shows .... what? You think your video of a variety of people of different colours and ethnicities shows that black people are more prone to shoplifting than others or ... ?

What conclusions are you drawing from this and why?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
According to your signature line, Satan is the one who will teach you about things like that. So why not ask him? If he's so great and loving, then you must think he has all the answers. Not that the current state of the world is an indication of that.
Cool, so show us where he is so we can ask him.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I'm not the one who claims to love him, so I don't keep track of his whereabouts.
Lets break it down:
Teach me how to Satan. Doesn't that sound silly to you? Satan as a verb? We aren't Hebrew so this unusual usage should have had you asking rather than go on a tangent.
I know the Devil loves me. That doesn't mean "has all the answers." And you want the truth? It's from a silly tongue in cheek song that is the anti-thesis of being takem seriously with lines like "proceed to drink wine and get white boy retarded.(yeeeHAAAW!)" (the artist himself is white)
 

setarcos

The hopeful or the hopeless?
Consider the over-whelming Christian majority in
government
I think the Christian majority is a reflection of the percentages of our religious diversity here in the states. There is also Jewish, Islam, agnostic, Buddhist, and Hindu representatives in our government.
their blind support for Israel's genocide
of Palestinians
Why do you think its blind to the Palestinians situation? And other than parroting the already anti-Semitic rhetoric being peddled how do you parse the Hamas/Israeli war with genocide? I'm not saying your wrong I just want a deeper understanding of how you see that complex situation over there.

their Christian supporters'
anti-Palestinian pro-Zionist rhetoric that's couched
in religious terms.
I suppose your getting this from a video or two you've seen online? Else what are you referring to?
Note that this spans both sides
of the aisle, ie, so many liberals are illiberal regarding
the human rights of Muslims.
I'm not sure that's true. Every time some joker in government-presidents included-tries to pass legislation profiling or otherwise persecute specific races, religions, or particular groups of people based merely on their affiliations with those things it is quickly challenged and quashed. Few other nations literally have those rights written into their laws.
What do you mean by "total"
I mean total freedom to do what they want with their body.
I simply took your view of abortion and expanded the view to make a point.
You did not use "total". I did.
But perhaps you would like to expand on what you meant by bodily autonomy?
This country is not a Christian theocracy.
Never said it was. If it were, by definition it would be the best government possible. Why? Because in a true theocracy God rules (this isn't an argument for Gods existence so don't go there and waste our time).
By definition God is the pinnacle of justice. Why? Because God has perfect judgement and perfect ability to enforce that judgement. In theory its decisions are the best possible decisions that can exist in reality.
Marriage existed before Christianity.
Never said it didn't. Marriage has taken differing forms, associated rituals, and been given differing meanings throughout history.
What I said was what gives gays the right to force Christianity -whose definition of marriage is clear- to marry or accept the marriage of gays if that marriage does not fit how Christianity defines marriage?
I'll skip the rest.
Yeah...please do. I'm think the rest wouldn't get us very far towards mutual agreement.
I think I'd like to go get drinks with you sometime and having interesting conversations. We should probably avoid talking politics, religion, sports, history, science....um...perhaps we could just sit in silence and enjoy our drinks?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I think the Christian majority is a reflection of the percentages of our religious diversity here in the states.
It doesn't appear so.
Why do you think its blind to the Palestinians situation?
Because they continue to fund Israel's genocide,
while only offering mild criticism, ie, to feign
concern.
And other than parroting the already anti-Semitic rhetoric being peddled how do you parse the Hamas/Israeli war with genocide?
Typical Zionist....anything pro Palestinian human
rights is "anti-semitic". That old trick no longer
works...it just makes the one playing it look dumb
& bigoted.
It is no longer a war on Hamas....that is the excuse
for genocide of Palestinians....killing, maiming, &
sending the survivors to Africa so Israel can take Gaza.
I suppose your getting this from a video or two you've seen online?
I suppose you're getting your views from Israeli & Christian propaganda.
Else what are you referring to?
Many discussions here & elsewhere.
What I read from many sources in the news.
I'm not sure that's true. Every time some joker in government-presidents included-tries to pass legislation profiling or otherwise persecute specific races, religions, or particular groups of people based merely on their affiliations with those things it is quickly challenged and quashed. Few other nations literally have those rights written into their laws.
Nonetheless, the Christian supermajority in government
leads the charge to send ever more bombs for Israel
to drop on Palestinians. Their & their supporters' rhetoric
is laden with religiosity & disregard for Muslims.
 

setarcos

The hopeful or the hopeless?
Christians arw often motivated to poor behaviors, and indeed the Bible does contain many offensive and objectionable passages, like the commands to kill apostates and homosexuals.
One of the things that attracted me to Christianity is that its scriptures don't sugar coat things. It depicts realistic situations, in actual historical periods of time, as ugly as they may have been.
We live in different times. If your really interested in understanding why the bible says what it says in context then you should research biblical redemptive history.
Suffice it for me to say here that Christianity does not condone the killing of apostates or homosexuals. Those things came from necessary Jewish laws in their season. With the arrival of Jesus Christ the messiah those laws were fulfilled. A new covenant has been enacted. Christians are no longer held to account under those old laws. Christians believe the old testament reached its climactic fulfillment in Jesus's arrival and sacrifice.
It's selfish, egotistical and self destructive. Nationalist often don't play well with others and that isna requirement for getting along with ithers, especially on a global stage.
I suppose that would depend on the nation. But what do you think would be a better alternative?
Have you read the 10 Commandments?
Yes. They seem reasonably appropriate for mutual civil interaction to me.
Are you saying you shouldn't have to respect your mother and father or not murder other people? You should be free to determine that course for yourself otherwise its tyranny?
Or perhaps you mean that anyone who dares to suggest a necessary code of conduct in order to increase the odds of a civil society is being tyrannical?
with a couple pro social bits that most people don't do default anyways (thiu shalt not kill).
I think your giving your fellow human beings more credit than they are do. Imagine if it were legal to murder anyone who offended you? No legal consequences, no punishment. Even if it were a minority who would act on such impulses that minority would quickly dominate society. Talk about tyranny, there you go.
Have you read that Jesus confirms his god has a concept of thoughtcrime?
If you mean verses like Matthew 5:28 then yes. We ultimately are what we think. All manner of wickedness arises out of the hearts of mankind. If we do not seek to condemn such thoughts then we are condoning what in action would be a crime. That's perfectly compatible with modern psychological understanding of the brain/mind.
Follow or face destruction isn't a choice. It's a threat.
A threat? If Christ says get in the lifeboat or you'll drown and you say no thanks I'll swim to shore on my own how is that a threat? A warning maybe but Christians believe it is God's divine right to warn who he will, destroy who he will, save who he will. IF God created us it is his divine right to fulfill his will not ours. We're just blessed he saw fit to give us a way out of what otherwise would be inevitable destruction. That is the Christian faith/hope anyway.
Not all of us. I am among the sinless.
Then no worries for you. I wouldn't wanna turn my back on you though. You might put a knife in it and claim the same.
They don't have a concept of transgressing against god. Most gods have more important things to worry about than if we had gay sex or worship other gods.
I'm sorry but your provably incorrect.
Islam, Hinduism, tribal religions...I don't know of an institutional religion that doesn't have a Constitution of reward/punishment for proper worship or transgressions against their god.
Failing, but failire isn't sin.
It literally is in the entomology of the word. Like I said, its what your failing at doing that's the key to becoming sin.
But I cast those shackles off a long time ago amd have been free of sin ever since.
I think you've cast off one shackle just to put on another...my opinion. You simply don't see how the other things can be shackles.
I don't think about it anymore or see temptations everywhere.
Becoming blind to temptation only means what may do you harm doesn't have to work as hard to ensnare you.
I think you deserve better than that.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
One of the things that attracted me to Christianity is that its scriptures don't sugar coat things. It depicts realistic situations, in actual historical periods of time, as ugly as they may have been.
We live in different times. If your really interested in understanding why the bible says what it says in context then you should research biblical redemptive history.
The Bible isn't a history book, and I'm well aware of how times used to be. Which makes the Bible look worse because it comes from a time and culture so savagely cruel and viscious that "happy
is he who dashes your little ones agaisnt the rocks" was a possible thought. It doesn't redeem the Bible that slavery was the norm then, it just affirms the Bible comes from man and man alone.
 

setarcos

The hopeful or the hopeless?
It doesn't appear so.
Doesn't appear so indeed. Except when you analyze some facts....We have a 100% complete data set on congress while the actual # of identifying Christians in the U.S. is estimated from a pew poll of 10,000 or so randomly selected people out of 350 or so million in the U.S.
So How accurately the numbers reflect the actualities are debatable. I'd say we can call this a wash for both of us but I'd say close enough for my estimate of reflecting the general population. And that goes for those who claim to be Christian but very rarely act like it. People just don't take these labels seriously anymore. They throw them around mostly for expediencies sake at the moment.
Because they continue to fund Israel's genocide,
Why they fund Israel's defense has a tad bit more history and tactical reasoning behind it than because they are blind to "Palestinian Genocide". Which itself is a phrase that is arguably being misused.
First, Israel has declared it is not deliberately targeting civilian Palestinians. What it is targeting is Hamas military targets. Slapping lipstick on a pig still makes it a pig. If Hamas is using hospitals and mosques to conduct military operations which has now been independently verified then those places have made themselves military targets and are targetable under international conventions.
For example...every participatory nation on earth during world war I and II have at times targeted civilian structures when identified as military targets. The current Ukrainian/Russian war is doing it now. All the surrounding hypocritical Arab countries have done it and have went even further by deliberately seeking out civilian targets which have no military value whatsoever in order to purposefully inflict high CIVILIAN casualties. Including Hamas and that terrorists supporting Palestinian population which by the way have openly declared to not stop attacking Israel and Jews until they are completely eliminated from the earth. THATS genocide! Yet for some reason - read politicizing BS;)- that word hasn't been thrown into the mainstream awareness until Israel is suddenly the horrible monster committing genocide. Talk about the Hypocrisy.
Second, consider that Hamas has been declared a terrorist organization and consequently not covered under the Geneva conventions where most people are getting their definition of what constitutes genocide from.
AND Palestinians have openly proclaimed their support for Hamas, even according to witness testimony and Hamas's own damning videos, going so far as helping to hide and abuse the "civilian" hostages taken by Hamas. Does that make the Palestinians no longer covered under the conventions as well? Not to mention consider that even the UN has recently had to admit to and fire a dozen of its own which were discovered with evidence to have helped to initiate the Hamas atrocities committed on Israeli civilians in their attack.
Thirdly, much of the horrible civilian casualties being inflicted on the Palestinian people are due to the deliberate actions of Hamas...the terrorists those same people have proclaimed support for.
Typical Zionist....anything pro Palestinian human
rights is "anti-semitic".
?? I'm not a Zionist.
That old trick no longer
works...it just makes the one playing it look dumb
& bigoted.
:facepalm:You've just called the entirety of the -no, I'll say nearly the entirety since some Palestinians are decent, rational, folk- Palestinian population dumb and bigoted. They've openly declared their anti-Semitism for all the world to see. You've got to have one eye shut and be blind in the other not to have seen that if you've done any due diligence and looked into some of this stuff. I guess its a different standard for them though.
It is no longer a war on Hamas....that is the excuse
for genocide of Palestinians....killing, maiming, &
sending the survivors to Africa so Israel can take Gaza.
What evidence, other than emotional ranting, can you provide?
I suppose you're getting your views from Israeli & Christian propaganda.
No, I'm getting this from Hamas's own videos and bragging. The Al Jazeera network and evidence provided by Israel which has been independently verified by the UN and other organizations.
Used to be concentrated on the hated Jews. Now the Christians as well. Pretty soon the middle eastern Arabs/Muslims will start in on the Atheists which they've already technically condemned and have blamed for the situations they have a strong hand in putting themselves into. Good luck.
Many discussions here & elsewhere.
What I read from many sources in the news.
Hmmm, it would be interesting to see, among what we have each read, seen, and discussed, what can actually be verified and by whom.
I'm sure we'd both be surprised somewhat.
Nonetheless, the Christian supermajority in government
leads the charge to send ever more bombs for Israel
to drop on Palestinians. Their & their supporters' rhetoric
is laden with religiosity & disregard for Muslims.
And I agree with you, if you think that is a sad situation.
Stop and consider though, Muslims have historically killed more of each other than Jews or Christians have. America has arguably done more for Muslim rights than any nation on earth. And that despite having its citizens being deliberately attacked, and it as a nation being deliberately declared a nation that must be destroyed in its entirety.
All else being equal have you stopped to consider that both sides may have an surreptitious agenda.
The rhetoric you decry may just as likely be the rhetoric you'd endorse if from a different perspective.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Doesn't appear so indeed. Except when you analyze some facts....We have a 100% complete data set on congress while the actual # of identifying Christians in the U.S. is estimated from a pew poll of 10,000 or so randomly selected people out of 350 or so million in the U.S.
So How accurately the numbers reflect the actualities are debatable. I'd say we can call this a wash for both of us but I'd say close enough for my estimate of reflecting the general population. And that goes for those who claim to be Christian but very rarely act like it. People just don't take these labels seriously anymore. They throw them around mostly for expediencies sake at the moment.

Why they fund Israel's defense has a tad bit more history and tactical reasoning behind it than because they are blind to "Palestinian Genocide". Which itself is a phrase that is arguably being misused.
First, Israel has declared it is not deliberately targeting civilian Palestinians. What it is targeting is Hamas military targets. Slapping lipstick on a pig still makes it a pig. If Hamas is using hospitals and mosques to conduct military operations which has now been independently verified then those places have made themselves military targets and are targetable under international conventions.
For example...every participatory nation on earth during world war I and II have at times targeted civilian structures when identified as military targets. The current Ukrainian/Russian war is doing it now. All the surrounding hypocritical Arab countries have done it and have went even further by deliberately seeking out civilian targets which have no military value whatsoever in order to purposefully inflict high CIVILIAN casualties. Including Hamas and that terrorists supporting Palestinian population which by the way have openly declared to not stop attacking Israel and Jews until they are completely eliminated from the earth. THATS genocide! Yet for some reason - read politicizing BS;)- that word hasn't been thrown into the mainstream awareness until Israel is suddenly the horrible monster committing genocide. Talk about the Hypocrisy.
Second, consider that Hamas has been declared a terrorist organization and consequently not covered under the Geneva conventions where most people are getting their definition of what constitutes genocide from.
AND Palestinians have openly proclaimed their support for Hamas, even according to witness testimony and Hamas's own damning videos, going so far as helping to hide and abuse the "civilian" hostages taken by Hamas. Does that make the Palestinians no longer covered under the conventions as well? Not to mention consider that even the UN has recently had to admit to and fire a dozen of its own which were discovered with evidence to have helped to initiate the Hamas atrocities committed on Israeli civilians in their attack.
Thirdly, much of the horrible civilian casualties being inflicted on the Palestinian people are due to the deliberate actions of Hamas...the terrorists those same people have proclaimed support for.

?? I'm not a Zionist.

:facepalm:You've just called the entirety of the -no, I'll say nearly the entirety since some Palestinians are decent, rational, folk- Palestinian population dumb and bigoted. They've openly declared their anti-Semitism for all the world to see. You've got to have one eye shut and be blind in the other not to have seen that if you've done any due diligence and looked into some of this stuff. I guess its a different standard for them though.

What evidence, other than emotional ranting, can you provide?

No, I'm getting this from Hamas's own videos and bragging. The Al Jazeera network and evidence provided by Israel which has been independently verified by the UN and other organizations.
Used to be concentrated on the hated Jews. Now the Christians as well. Pretty soon the middle eastern Arabs/Muslims will start in on the Atheists which they've already technically condemned and have blamed for the situations they have a strong hand in putting themselves into. Good luck.

Hmmm, it would be interesting to see, among what we have each read, seen, and discussed, what can actually be verified and by whom.
I'm sure we'd both be surprised somewhat.

And I agree with you, if you think that is a sad situation.
Stop and consider though, Muslims have historically killed more of each other than Jews or Christians have. America has arguably done more for Muslim rights than any nation on earth. And that despite having its citizens being deliberately attacked, and it as a nation being deliberately declared a nation that must be destroyed in its entirety.
All else being equal have you stopped to consider that both sides may have an surreptitious agenda.
The rhetoric you decry may just as likely be the rhetoric you'd endorse if from a different perspective.
Not worth responding to.
 
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