"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[YoursTrue]

QUESTION, since I cannot read all the posts, too many -- someone here said the Sabbath is MANDATORY for Jews. OK, would any of you say it is mandatory today (for Jews)??

 

[3rdAngel]

QUESTION, since I cannot read all the posts, too many -- someone here said the Sabbath is MANDATORY for Jews. OK, would any of you say it is mandatory today (for Jews)??

Hi YT, according to the scriptures, Gods Sabbath is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of GOOD (moral right doing when obeyed) and EVIL (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); SIN (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and RIGHTEOUSNESS (moral right doing when obeyed). *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172. God created the Sabbath on the "seventh day" of the creation week for all mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27. There was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses when God made the Sabbath for mankind. There was only Adam and Eve created on the sixth day of creation according to Genesis 1:26-31. Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament as a requirement and standard of Christian living according to the scriptures and just like any of Gods 10 commandments it is sin to break it *see James 2:10-11; compare 1 John 3:4.

Take Care.

 

[YoursTrue]

Hi YT, according to the scriptures, Gods Sabbath is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of GOOD (moral right doing when obeyed) and EVIL (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); SIN (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and RIGHTEOUSNESS (moral right doing when obeyed). *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172. God created the Sabbath on the "seventh day" of the creation week for all mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27. There was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses when God made the Sabbath for mankind. There was only Adam and Eve created on the sixth day of creation according to Genesis 1:26-31. Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament as a requirement and standard of Christian living according to the scriptures and just like any of Gods 10 commandments it is sin to break it *see James 2:10-11; compare 1 John 3:4.

Take Care.

Allow me to go along with you for a moment, please. Do you think the commandment to observe the Sabbath is mandatory now for Jews? That's question #1.

 

[3rdAngel]

Allow me to go along with you for a moment, please. Do you think the commandment to observe the Sabbath is mandatory now for Jews? That's question #1.

Absolutely, Gods 10 commandments give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (see James 2:10-11 and compare 1 John 3:4 and Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7) and the wages of sin is death according to the scriptures in Ezekiel 18:4 and Romans 6:23.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

QUESTION, since I cannot read all the posts, too many -- someone here said the Sabbath is MANDATORY for Jews. OK, would any of you say it is mandatory today (for Jews)??

Different Jews are going to give different answers. Some Jews are not religious at all and could care less about anything in Torah. But let's look at the three main branches of Judaism as they exist in the US (things are a little different in Israel).

Orthodox Judaism teaches that Halakha (Jewish law) is both unchangeable and obligatory for all Jews. They would say that every Jew, regardless of what they believe, even if they are of another religion such as Christianity or if they are atheist, is bound by the Covenant to keep the sabbath.

Conservative Judaism teaches that Halakha CAN change, but they are very slow to do so, that obedience is obligatory for all Jews. Thus, they may have a few different rules for Shabbat observance than the orthodox, but they would still say that all Jews are obligated to keep the Shabbat.

Reform Judaism teaches both that Halakha can change, and that obedience is a voluntary, nonobligatory thing. They would say that it is entirely up to the individual Jew if they observe the Shabbat, and to what degree.


Moving to a different point, Jews who are Christian do not agree as to whether they are to keep Jewish law. There are Jews for example in the Messianic Jewish denomination UMJC who have Standards of Observance published by their Messianic Jewish Rabbinical Council that more or less do encourage Christian Jews in their denomination to keep the Law, even though they teach that this is not related to salvation. Other Jews who are members of Gentile churches usually believe they are under no obligation to keep the Law.

Which essentially brings us back to the old saying: Two Jews, three opinions.

 

[YoursTrue]

Different Jews are going to give different answers. Some Jews are not religious at all and could care less about anything in Torah. But let's look at the three main branches of Judaism as they exist in the US (things are a little different in Israel).

Orthodox Judaism teaches that Halakha (Jewish law) is both unchangeable and obligatory for all Jews. They would say that every Jew, regardless of what they believe, even if they are of another religion such as Christianity or if they are atheist, is bound by the Covenant to keep the sabbath.

Conservative Judaism teaches that Halakha CAN change, but they are very slow to do so, that obedience is obligatory for all Jews. Thus, they may have a few different rules for Shabbat observance than the orthodox, but they would still say that all Jews are obligated to keep the Shabbat.

Reform Judaism teaches both that Halakha can change, and that obedience is a voluntary, nonobligatory thing. They would say that it is entirely up to the individual Jew if they observe the Shabbat, and to what degree.


Moving to a different point, Jews who are Christian do not agree as to whether they are to keep Jewish law. There are Jews for example in the Messianic Jewish denomination UMJC who have Standards of Observance published by their Messianic Jewish Rabbinical Council that more or less do encourage Christian Jews in their denomination to keep the Law, even though they teach that this is not related to salvation. Other Jews who are members of Gentile churches usually believe they are under no obligation to keep the Law.

Which essentially brings us back to the old saying: Two Jews, three opinions.

Ok thank you. This is where the confusing part might come in. Another poster early on said it was mandatory for Jews to observe the Sabbath day. Since the poster used the word mandatory, one might wonder about that, also about present day. How mandatory is it. Something mandatory implies a penalty if not followed.

 

[YoursTrue]

Different Jews are going to give different answers. Some Jews are not religious at all and could care less about anything in Torah. But let's look at the three main branches of Judaism as they exist in the US (things are a little different in Israel).

Orthodox Judaism teaches that Halakha (Jewish law) is both unchangeable and obligatory for all Jews. They would say that every Jew, regardless of what they believe, even if they are of another religion such as Christianity or if they are atheist, is bound by the Covenant to keep the sabbath.

Conservative Judaism teaches that Halakha CAN change, but they are very slow to do so, that obedience is obligatory for all Jews. Thus, they may have a few different rules for Shabbat observance than the orthodox, but they would still say that all Jews are obligated to keep the Shabbat.

Reform Judaism teaches both that Halakha can change, and that obedience is a voluntary, nonobligatory thing. They would say that it is entirely up to the individual Jew if they observe the Shabbat, and to what degree.


Moving to a different point, Jews who are Christian do not agree as to whether they are to keep Jewish law. There are Jews for example in the Messianic Jewish denomination UMJC who have Standards of Observance published by their Messianic Jewish Rabbinical Council that more or less do encourage Christian Jews in their denomination to keep the Law, even though they teach that this is not related to salvation. Other Jews who are members of Gentile churches usually believe they are under no obligation to keep the Law.

Which essentially brings us back to the old saying: Two Jews, three opinions.

P.s. I almost forgot the expression. I thought it was three Jews, three opinions. But it's not. Two Jews, three opinions. Complicated a little bit.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Ok thank you. This is where the confusing part might come in. Another poster early on said it was mandatory for Jews to observe the Sabbath day. Since the poster used the word mandatory, one might wonder about that, also about present day. How mandatory is it. Something mandatory implies a penalty if not followed.

Well, let's approach it from an orthodox perspective. They would certainly believe that keeping the shabbat is mandatory, and they also have the strictest traditions about how to do so properly. But it's not like they have police and courts that prosecute sabbath breakers the way Jews used to long ago. They do use social pressure -- the amount of gossip that went around my shul when I used to be orthodox was horrible. "Someone told me that Rachel got into a car on Shabbat." That sort of thing can ruin your reputation (and indeed lashon hara, aka evil tongue, is considered an enormous sin). So I'm not supporting gossip. I'm just pointing out the social pressure to be shomer shabbos is huge.

 

[YoursTrue]

Hi YT, according to the scriptures, Gods Sabbath is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of GOOD (moral right doing when obeyed) and EVIL (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); SIN (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and RIGHTEOUSNESS (moral right doing when obeyed). *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172. God created the Sabbath on the "seventh day" of the creation week for all mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27. There was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses when God made the Sabbath for mankind. There was only Adam and Eve created on the sixth day of creation according to Genesis 1:26-31. Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament as a requirement and standard of Christian living according to the scriptures and just like any of Gods 10 commandments it is sin to break it *see James 2:10-11; compare 1 John 3:4.

Take Care.

There is a Sabbath resting for the people of God. It isn't just one day a week.

Well, let's approach it from an orthodox perspective. They would certainly believe that keeping the shabbat is mandatory, and they also have the strictest traditions about how to do so properly. But it's not like they have police and courts that prosecute sabbath breakers the way Jews used to long ago. They do use social pressure -- the amount of gossip that went around my shul when I used to be orthodox was horrible. "Someone told me that Rachel got into a car on Shabbat." That sort of thing can ruin your reputation (and indeed lashon hara, aka evil tongue, is considered an enormous sin). So I'm not supporting gossip. I'm just pointing out the social pressure to be shomer shabbos is huge.

Thank you And it brings to mind about a "sabbath resting" for the people of God. It doesn't mean one day a week. It means until the Sabbath Day of God is over and the fulfillment of the messianic age begins. So I thank you for your answers. Eve wanted to do her own thing. We have a lot to learn --

 

[YoursTrue]

Different Jews are going to give different answers. Some Jews are not religious at all and could care less about anything in Torah. But let's look at the three main branches of Judaism as they exist in the US (things are a little different in Israel).

Orthodox Judaism teaches that Halakha (Jewish law) is both unchangeable and obligatory for all Jews. They would say that every Jew, regardless of what they believe, even if they are of another religion such as Christianity or if they are atheist, is bound by the Covenant to keep the sabbath.

Conservative Judaism teaches that Halakha CAN change, but they are very slow to do so, that obedience is obligatory for all Jews. Thus, they may have a few different rules for Shabbat observance than the orthodox, but they would still say that all Jews are obligated to keep the Shabbat.

Reform Judaism teaches both that Halakha can change, and that obedience is a voluntary, nonobligatory thing. They would say that it is entirely up to the individual Jew if they observe the Shabbat, and to what degree.


Moving to a different point, Jews who are Christian do not agree as to whether they are to keep Jewish law. There are Jews for example in the Messianic Jewish denomination UMJC who have Standards of Observance published by their Messianic Jewish Rabbinical Council that more or less do encourage Christian Jews in their denomination to keep the Law, even though they teach that this is not related to salvation. Other Jews who are members of Gentile churches usually believe they are under no obligation to keep the Law.

Which essentially brings us back to the old saying: Two Jews, three opinions.

Hello again. Remember the seventh day of creation is not said to have ended. All the other days (the previous six) had a beginning and an end, but nothing is written by Moses in the Genesis account that the seventh day of the creation account ended. Take care, and I need to go back to sleep. Nice talking with you. Hope to continue later if possible.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Hello again. Remember the seventh day of creation is not said to have ended. All the other days (the previous six) had a beginning and an end, but nothing is written by Moses in the Genesis account that the seventh day of the creation account ended. Take care, and I need to go back to sleep. Nice talking with you. Hope to continue later if possible.

I appreciate the concept you are trying to present. I'm not trying to tell you what to do or believe. But I do think it is a mistake to call other forms of rest "the Sabbath." The Torah is quite clear that the commandment is to rest from labor on the seventh day. Deuteronomy tells us that the reason for the sabbath is to remember that God delivered us from slavery in Egypt. Anything that does not fall within those parameters is simply not rightly called the Sabbath.

Yes, you are right. Time for beddy bye. Sleep well my friend.

 

[3rdAngel]

There is a Sabbath resting for the people of God. It isn't just one day a week.

Actually according to the scriptures and Torah, the Sabbath is defined as the "seventh day" of the week. This is the bibles definition of the creation Sabbath in Gods 10 commandments (see Exodus 20:8-11). According to the scriptures "the seventh day" is the Sabbath of the Lord your God" - Exodus 20:10 and it remains for the people of God to enter into by believing and obeying what Gods Word says - Hebrews 4:1-9.

Take Care.

 

[metis]

Actually according to the scriptures and Torah, the Sabbath is defined as the "seventh day" of the week.

Which goes from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.

 

[3rdAngel]

I'm not intersted in arguing with you about it. Deut 17:8-13 speaks for itself -- it establishes God given authority for the Levites and Judges/Rabbi to interpret the law. Anyone in this forum is welcome to read the text for themselves. You can compose as many books on the subject as you want, and I am still not going to engage with you. I'm more than happy with the verses simply speaking for themselves.

That is certainly ok dear friend. Post # 2698 linked simply shows the rest of the scripture context you left out that is in disagreement with you proving that your claims that only a Levite Priest or Pharisee can interpret law or scripture is not truthful misleading. Yes anyone on this forum can read any understand this by seeing the context you disregarded from the scriptures you posted. Do not worry, I did not expect you to engage with me in discussion as you never do. I simply wrote a response to what you posted so that anyone reading can see why your claim that only a Levite and Pharisee can interpret scripture or law in the new covenant or even before the physical nation of Israel existed is false and misdirected as proven in the scripture context you disregarded shown in the linked post. We are in the new covenant now not the old. Of course you are free to believe as you wish that is between you and God. For me only Gods Words are true and we should believe and follow them (Romans 3:4). Thanks for responding though.

Take Care.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

We are in the new covenant now not the old.

This is the favorite trick of Christians to try to get out of the awkward situations when the Tanakh contradicts their teachings. Problem is, it just doesn't work. I'm sure you recognize the emptiness of the argument when it is used against YOUR pet issues: "Christians don't need to keep the sabbath -- we are in the New Covenant."

 

[3rdAngel]

This is the favorite trick of Christians to try to get out of the awkward situations when the Tanakh contradicts their teachings. Problem is, it just doesn't work.

Firstly, posting scripture context the proves what you posted is not biblical and refuse to discuss is not a trick but simply providing scripture that proves your claim that only a Levite and Pharisee can interpret scripture or law in the new covenant or even before the physical nation of Israel existed is false and misdirected. The scripture contexts and other scriptures before and after in post # 2698 linked demonstrates this. It is your refusal to address this linked post that puts you in an awkward position because you are unable to respond to the scriptures provided that are in direct disagreement with your interpretation of the scriptures you made.

I'm sure you recognize the emptiness of the argument when it is used against YOUR pet issues: "Christians don't need to keep the sabbath -- we are in the New Covenant."

Actually no not at all. The difference is that everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the New Testament scriptures as the standard of Christian living. The purpose of Gods 10 commandments in both covenants are the same. According to the scriptures the purpose of Gods 10 commandments are to give us the knowledge of GOOD (moral right doing when obeyed) and EVIL (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); SIN (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and RIGHTEOUSNESS (moral right doing when obeyed). *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172. Likewise, according to Gods new covenant scripture, God promises to teach us His Word directly through His Spirit. These scriptures were also already provided to you in John 7:17; John 14:26; John 16:13 proving this. Your response was to simply ignore them. We can also add Hebrews 8:10-12 (see v11) from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Isaiah 28:9-13 and 1 John 2:27 to further prove that God teaches His people individually if we seek to know Him through His Word with all of our heart (Jeremiah 29:13).

Furthermore, you were also provided the full context of the scriptures you quoted that were in disagreement with your interpretation of the scriptures that only a Levite and Pharisee can interpret scripture or law when the full context of Deuteronomy 17:1-14 was provided. When the full context was provided the scriptures (not me) says verbatim that...

1. Transgressing Gods laws of atonement for sin offerings (Deuteronomy 17:1-2)
2. Transgressing Gods Old Covenant (Deuteronomy 17:1-2)
3. Transgressing Gods commandments - Idolatry (Deuteronomy 17:3-4)
4. If the matter be found true with 2-3 witnesses those breaking Gods covenant were to be sentenced to death (Deuteronomy 17:5-6)
5. If matter were too hard to judge and controversy arises then it is to be taken to the Levite Priest and Judge for judgement (Deuteronomy 17:8-9)
6. The matters of going to a Levite Priest or Judge only applied for those days in the Old Covenant. (Deuteronomy 17:9)
7. The context of these scriptures was to the penalty of sin and execution of judgement or penalty of sin (Deuteronomy 17:1-13)

SUMMARY:

The context of the scriptures you quoted in Deuteronomy 17:8:13 is to the transgression of Gods laws of atonement, commandments and Old covenant and public sin in the presence of 2-3 witnesses and the application of penalty of sin which in most cases was death by stoning. The people were only ever to go to the Priest and Judges when there were matters of controversy too hard for them to understand at which time the Levite Priest and Judge would then inquire of God for the penalty to be given for those sins (civil/religious law). It is stated in these same scriptures that application of these laws were only for those days. The time of those days was the Exodus. Your claim that only a Levite and Pharisee can only interpret scripture or law in the new covenant or even before the physical nation of Israel existed is therefore false and misdirected (Genesis 26:5).

You lose on every count here dear friend. Receive Gods correction and be blessed. Ignoring Gods Words does not make them disappear.

Take care.

 

[YoursTrue]

Actually according to the scriptures and Torah, the Sabbath is defined as the "seventh day" of the week. This is the bibles definition of the creation Sabbath in Gods 10 commandments (see Exodus 20:8-11). According to the scriptures "the seventh day" is the Sabbath of the Lord your God" - Exodus 20:10 and it remains for the people of God to enter into by believing and obeying what Gods Word says - Hebrews 4:1-9.

Take Care.

I know God commanded a Sabbath day rest for the Israelites. Do you think it means that God needs to rest?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The difference is that everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the New Testament

Nope. There is no commandment to keep the sabbath in the NT.

 

[YoursTrue]

I appreciate the concept you are trying to present. I'm not trying to tell you what to do or believe. But I do think it is a mistake to call other forms of rest "the Sabbath." The Torah is quite clear that the commandment is to rest from labor on the seventh day. Deuteronomy tells us that the reason for the sabbath is to remember that God delivered us from slavery in Egypt. Anything that does not fall within those parameters is simply not rightly called the Sabbath.

Yes, you are right. Time for beddy bye. Sleep well my friend.

Hi, it's the next day...
I checked some of the scriptures, here's what I see: Exodus 31:15-17

Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

There's more, of course, but it's an interesting discussion. It was yes, a sign between the God Almighty and the people of Israel. Something good to reflect upon.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Hi, it's the next day...
I checked some of the scriptures, here's what I see: Exodus 31:15-17

Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

There's more, of course, but it's an interesting discussion. It was yes, a sign between the God Almighty and the people of Israel. Something good to reflect upon.

What a lovely response.

The ten commandments are also repeated in Deuteronomy 5:

12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.