"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[3rdAngel]

As it is, I have more than a few things to go over with @3rdAngel, including his last response to me, and I hope to get to it shortly, if not tonight, then perhaps later on in the week. Obviously, if what 3rdAngel says is true, then God was giving bread to all mankind for two days so they could take the 7th, and He was doing this since creation. It requires, IMO, a doctrine that takes fantastical leaps of logic.

Your logic makes no sense here. Genesis 1 is the creation event and when the Sabbath was made for all mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27, while the giving of manna in Exodus 16 has nothing to do with when the Sabbath was made for mankind on the seventh day of creation in Genesis 2:1-3.

As you have stated previously, the vast majority of Christians have no problems with anyone who wants to keep a Sabbath. I find not one person who has labels their self Christian has argued here that Christian Sabbath keepers should be condemned or shown the curb for their doctrine. Instead, for the sake of those who do attempt to keep a Sabbath, we don't begrudge, condemn, or hold them sinful and/or lawless for their belief.

According to the scriptures Gods Sabbath commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7 and Romans 3:20. There is not a single scripture in all of the bible that teaches Gods Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday or the first day of the week as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15-3-9. According to Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 if we seek to follow, man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word we are not worshiping God. Begs the question then who do we believe and follow; God or man?

From my standpoint (and I am well aware, yours as well) , I would rather be accused of putting too much faith in Christ, then of not placing enough faith in a Sabbath Day.

As can be shown through the scriptures, no one puts any faith in God or His Word if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. (see John 1:1-4; 14; John 3:36; 1 John 2:3-4; Matthew 7:21-23). Not believing and obeying what Gods Word says is the very definition of what sin is according to 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23. According to the scriptures all those who choose to continue in unbelief and sin after God gives them a knowledge of the truth of His Word and choose to reject Gods Word in order to practice their sins will be in danger of the judgement to come unless they repent and return back to God (see Hebrews 10:26-31). Therefore to put your faith in Christ means to believe and obey Gods Word not to disobey and not believe what Gods Word says.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

At creation, of course. The works of God are all good, so when God created man on the 6th day, man was at rest with God.
God rested on the 7th day, but this was His rest, as man was already at rest with God.

So you are agreeing with me Adam and Eve kept the first Sabbath.

According to the words of Jesus in Mark 2:27 God made the Sabbath for mankind.

Your response here..

Yes, we needed rest, because when we sinned, we entered a state of UNREST with God. Hence the institution of a day of rest for the Jews, after He rescued them from bondage in Egypt.

What are you talking about here? Jesus saying that God made the Sabbath for mankind simply means Jesus made the Sabbath for mankind. When God made the Sabbath for all mankind, man had not sinned and was sinless in Gods eyes.

Let's look at this again: Genesis 2:2-3 "And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." GOD rested 3rdAngel. MAN was ALREADY at rest in God. There's no need for man to take another rest when man is already at rest.

Incorrect. Mankind was sinless when God made the Sabbath for all mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27. Man was still given his duties by God to tend to the garden and animals (see Genesis 2:15) before the fall. You are quite wrong here.

Your doctrine would make more sense if man was in a state of UNREST at the time of our creation. That is, it would make more sense if man had been created sinful, and needed a vehicle to enter God's rest. Essentially you argue: Man was at unrest when created and needed a vehicle (Sabbath) to obtain rest Man was in rest at creation, but God decided man needed a rest from the rest He was already providing. Either notion is unsupported and illogical. There is simply NOTHING in the Genesis account that supports your contention that God made the Sabbath a day of rest for ALL MANKIND on the 7th day of the creation week. That is not SCRIPTURE talking, that is your DOCTRINE talking. Please explain why you believe man needed a rest from the rest we already had since the beginning of our creation. I see no reason, biblically or logically, why man would need a special day of rest from God's rest. We did not need to be brought into a state of rest until AFTER, and not BEFORE the fall. We fell from grace and this put us at a state of unrest with God. This did not occur at the point of our creation, but would occur later in the garden.

As shown through the scriptures above it is your post that is illogical and unsupported by the scriptures. It also shows your lack of understanding of what the Sabbath was made for. Where your argument keeps falling down is that when God made the Sabbath for mankind, mankind was sinless. Mankind being sinless does not mean that man did not have any work duties given to him from God (see Genesis 2:15). The scriptures prove that it is your understanding of when sin entered the world and who the Sabbath was made for that is illogical. Think your argument through. Your argument can only be logical if the Sabbath was made for mankind after mankind had already sinned. All the other ceremonial sabbaths to do with atonement where given to man after mankind had sinned (e.g Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Day of Atonement etc).

These were shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus as Gods promised Messiah and Gods sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all (see John 1:29; 36; Hebrews 10:10). Unlike the ceremonial sabbaths to do with atonement that pointed to things to come in Gods plan of salvation for all mankind, Gods seventh day Sabbath of creation in Genesis 2:1-3 which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken points BACKWARDS as a MEMORIAL of creation it does not point forward to things to come. Exodus 20:8 REMEMBER (memorial) the Sabbath to keep it holy. The Sabbath was blessed by God and made Holy for man by God on the seventh day of the creation week (see Genesis 2:1-3). Sorry dear friend but it is your post that is unsupported by the scriptures and is illogical. Jesus who is our creator and God of the Sabbath tells us that "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath" in Mark 2:27. Once again your false teachings and doctrine of lawlessness and sin do not hold up to the bible.

The Sabbath given to the Jews was an acknowledgement that they were in a state of unrest and foreshadows a return to mankind's complete rest in God. They left Egypt to return to God. God rested on the 7th day for our benefit, not for His 3rdAngel.

According to the scriptures God made the Sabbath for all mankind not the Jews (see Mark 2:27). There was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses, no sin when God made the Sabbath for mankind according to the scriptures. There was only Adam and Eve who were created on the sixth day of the creation week in Genesis 1:26-31. You do err not knowing the scriptures.

Jesus stated quite clearly: Matthew 11:28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Can you explain why Jesus is offering HIS rest if the Sabbath was plainly available to "All mankind"? Also, can you explain why he's offering rest for our souls, if the Sabbath, and only the Sabbath, is our day of rest? You are a trinitarian are you not? So you understand that when we enter Jesus' rest we are at rest with God, and not only on special days of the week but even if it is the 7th day, because Christ is Lord, even of the Sabbath. The offer Jesus makes is to ALL MANKIND. It's an offer to enter the same rest we had before the fall. For the Christian, this requires a STRONG faith in the life and ministry of Christ and a lot LESS faith in our own works. It is a lot easier to rely on our own works than express faith in Christ.

According to the scriptures, the Gospel rest of salvation from sin through believing and following what Gods Word says is not the same as Gods Sabbath rest which is a memorial of God's creation and celebration of God as our creator. Tell me where is Matthew 11:28 talking about the Sabbath? Its not. Your reading things into the scriptures that are not written in the scriptures. There is no mention anywhere in Matthew 11 of the Sabbath and the only definition of the creation Sabbath in Gods 10 commandments is the "seventh day" of the week in Exodus 20:10. So to call Jesus a Sabbath is to call Jesus "the seventh day" of the week which is not logical at all. You are twisting scripture and your post is illogical and does not make any sense. Jesus is not the "seventh day" of the week and neither is Jesus the Sabbath and there is no scripture to make these claims. Look at where the logic of your arguments lead you. You make Jesus the Sabbath despite there being no scripture to support a claim anywhere in the bible that Jesus is the Sabbath. Now instead of Jesus being in His rightful place as our creator and maker of the Sabbath your argument has Jesus creating Himself as the seventh day of the week. Remember the only definition of the creation Sabbath in Gods 10 commandments in the scriptures is found in Exodus 20:10 where it says "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God." Can you see how your argument and logic is working out for you? Not to well right? Further more according to the scriptures no one enters into Gods rest of Matthew 11:28-30 if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says and to suggest otherwise is only a demonstration that those tho believe and teach these doctrines of lawlessness do not know God or His Word (see 1 John 2:3-4; Hebrews 3:8-19; Hebrews 4:1-11; Hebrews 10:26-31).

 

[YoursTrue]

Your response here..

That is not truthful at all. According to the scripture a day in Gods creation time in Genesis1 is the darkness (night) followed by the light (day) and together these make up one day. You can read the scriptures here for yourself.

Genesis 1:5 5, And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening (night) and the morning (day) were the first day.
Genesis 1:8 8, And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the second day.
Genesis 1:13 13, And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the third day.
Genesis 1:19 19, And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23 23, And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31 31, And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the sixth day.
Genesis 2:2 2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

As can be shown from the scriptures above the creation week is 7 literal days. Of course this also is consistent with God making the seventh day Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-3 and Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment from Exodus 20:8-11 being simply every seventh day of the week. Furthermore, according to Jesus the Sabbath was made for all mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27 and Genesis 2:1-3. There was no Jew, no Moses, no Israel when God made the Sabbath for all mankind. There was only Adam and Eve who were created on the sixth day of the creation week in Genesis 1:26-31.

Take Care.

You too. I've made it clear that the 7th day of creation has no end attached to it as yet. Bye for now.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: According to the scripture a day in Gods creation time in Genesis1 is the darkness (night) followed by the light (day) and together these make up one day. You can read the scriptures here for yourself.

Genesis 1:5 5, And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening (night) and the morning (day) were the first day.
Genesis 1:8 8, And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the second day.
Genesis 1:13 13, And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the third day.
Genesis 1:19 19, And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23 23, And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31 31, And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the sixth day.
Genesis 2:2 2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

As can be shown from the scriptures above the creation week is 7 literal days. Of course this also is consistent with God making the seventh day Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-3 and Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment from Exodus 20:8-11 being simply every seventh day of the week. Furthermore, according to Jesus the Sabbath was made for all mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27 and Genesis 2:1-3. There was no Jew, no Moses, no Israel when God made the Sabbath for all mankind. There was only Adam and Eve who were created on the sixth day of the creation week in Genesis 1:26-31.

Your response here...

You too. I've made it clear that the 7th day of creation has no end attached to it as yet. Bye for now.

Yes but that does not make what you say true either if what you say is in disagreement with scripture. What you posted does not make any sense either and neither is the idea we are still in the seventh day of the creation week supported by scripture as shown in the very post you are quoting from. As can be shown from the scriptures above the creation week is 7 literal days. Of course this also is consistent with God making the seventh day Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-3 and Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment from Exodus 20:8-11 being simply every seventh day of the week on a continuous weekly cycle every "seventh day" as a memorial of creation in Gods 10 commandments. It does not make any sense and is unsupported in the scriptures to say we are still living in the seventh day of creation when a week is a seven day cycle in creation, the bible and life. Our seven day week comes from Genesis 1.

Take Care

 

[YoursTrue]

Your response here...

Yes but that does not make what you say true either if what you say is in disagreement with scripture. What you posted does not make any sense either and neither is that idea supported by scripture as shown in the very post you are quoting from. As can be shown from the scriptures above the creation week is 7 literal days. Of course this also is consistent with God making the seventh day Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-3 and Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment from Exodus 20:8-11 being simply every seventh day of the week on a continuous weekly cycle every "seventh day" as a memorial of creation in Gods 10 commandments. It does not make any sense and is unsupported in the scriptures to say we are still living in the seventh day of creation when a week is a seven day cycle in creation, the bible and life. Our seven day week comes from Genesis 1.

Take Care

Using common sense and reasoning helps. So thanks for discussion and have a good evening. I guess within the period of a 24-hour day now.

 

[3rdAngel]

Using common sense and reasoning helps. So thanks for discussion and have a good evening. I guess within the period of a 24-hour day now.

Agreed. The standard of truth, that is what is true and what is not true for a Christian according to the scriptures though is Gods Word see John 17:17 and Romans 3:4 anything else is not common sense, not true and foolishness in Gods eyes. For the Christian, only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well of course it's a tradition, like so much else in Christianity. Why is that a big deal to you?

Because according to Jesus tradition can be outside of Scripture - Matthew 15:9
Even if the Pharisees were sincere their traditions outside of Scripture was sincerely wrong.
A man on the radio said the churches are Not interested in Jesus Christ.
So, to me that would mean Not interested in his teachings but in church tradition or church customs outside of Scripture but taught as Scripture.

 

[3rdAngel]

Because according to Jesus tradition can be outside of Scripture - Matthew 15:9
Even if the Pharisees were sincere their traditions outside of Scripture was sincerely wrong.
A man on the radio said the churches are Not interested in Jesus Christ.
So, to me that would mean Not interested in his teachings but in church tradition or church customs outside of Scripture but taught as Scripture.

Exactly! Matthew 15:3-9 says it all. Its a warning from Jesus not to follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God. Jesus says here that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word we are not worshiping God. This is relevant to Sunday worship as a replacement for Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments. This will be the testing question that will come to everyone professing Christianity. Who do we believe and follow; God or man? Thank you for sharing.

 

[Kenny]

Who do we believe and follow; God or man?

God... that's why I don't follow what you say. )

 

[exchemist]

Because according to Jesus tradition can be outside of Scripture - Matthew 15:9
Even if the Pharisees were sincere their traditions outside of Scripture was sincerely wrong.
A man on the radio said the churches are Not interested in Jesus Christ.
So, to me that would mean Not interested in his teachings but in church tradition or church customs outside of Scripture but taught as Scripture.

In that passage Jesus says some traditions of the Pharisees were in breach of God's commandments (the Decalogue), that's all. The Old Testament, which is scripture, is full of the practices and rules that Jesus and his disciples did not follow. So they did not follow scripture.

 

[YoursTrue]

Your logic makes no sense here. Genesis 1 is the creation event and when the Sabbath was made for all mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27, while the giving of manna in Exodus 16 has nothing to do with when the Sabbath was made for mankind on the seventh day of creation in Genesis 2:1-3.

To be honest, as I start to read your response here, your logic makes no sense. In fact I don't think it's logic at all. Bye and have a nice day.

 

[YoursTrue]

Agreed. The standard of truth, that is what is true and what is not true for a Christian according to the scriptures though is Gods Word see John 17:17 and Romans 3:4 anything else is not common sense, not true and foolishness in Gods eyes. For the Christian, only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow it.

If someone uses the expression referring to previous generation and says, "In your father's day," would you think the word day there refers to a 24 hour day? Of course not, but to a certain time element, meaning as things were going in his day, or time period.

 

[YoursTrue]

Agreed. The standard of truth, that is what is true and what is not true for a Christian according to the scriptures though is Gods Word see John 17:17 and Romans 3:4 anything else is not common sense, not true and foolishness in Gods eyes. For the Christian, only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow it.

Question for you in particular now if you don't mind -- what do you consider work that should not be done on the sabbath?

 

[3rdAngel]

Exactly! Matthew 15:3-9 says it all. Its a warning from Jesus not to follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God. Jesus says here that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word we are not worshiping God. This is relevant to Sunday worship as a replacement for Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments. This will be the testing question that will come to everyone professing Christianity. Who do we believe and follow; God or man? Thank you for sharing.

Your response here..

God... that's why I don't follow what you say. )

If you believed and followed God Kenny then you would believe and follow the scriptures I have shared with you as they are Gods Word not my words. No one follows God if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word say. This is the warning given by Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 and in Hebrews 3:8-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

To be honest, as I start to read your response here, your logic makes no sense. In fact I don't think it's logic at all. Bye and have a nice day.

I demonstrated through the scriptures why the post I was responding to does not make any sense in post # 2961 linked giving reasons why from the scriptures. Your response was to simply ignore the post and scriptures that were provided and parrot what what I said about this persons post not making any sense and ignoring the reasons that I outlined from the scriptures proving why I said that this persons post did not make any sense from a scripture perspective. Lets be specific. You parrot the claims back that my post makes now sense without stating why you made that claim. What is it exactly in my post that you claim makes no sense? If you cannot tell me what it is in my post that does not make any sense, why make untruthful claims or why not ask for clarification? We should not be afraid to come to the light of Gods Word. We should also not be afraid to receive Gods correction now and be blessed. Later might be too late. Ignoring Gods Word does not make it disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we accept or reject will become our judge come judgement day in John 12:47-48.

 

[3rdAngel]

If someone uses the expression referring to previous generation and says, "In your father's day," would you think the word day there refers to a 24 hour day? Of course not, but to a certain time element, meaning as things were going in his day, or time period.

Of course not. However, the context in our discussion was Genesis 1 and the creation week and the seventh day Sabbath that God made, blessed and made as a holy day for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11 and Mark 2:27). So no wiggle room here. We both know what the topic is about.

 

[3rdAngel]

Question for you in particular now if you don't mind -- what do you consider work that should not be done on the sabbath?

According to Gods Sabbath commandment which is one of Gods 10 commandments found in Exodus 20:8-11 the scriptures here specifically state in v10 "THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD" IN IT YOU SHALL DO NO WORK" The Hebrew word for work here is מְלָאכָה (mᵉlâʼkâh | H4399) and it means all business (buying and selling, shopping), employment, occupation, domestic work including cooking and cleaning. The focus of Exodus 20:8-11 is that we are free to do our own work, six other days of the week, but the "seventh day" (Friday sunset to Saturday sunset our time) is Gods Sabbath day that God blessed and made a holy day of rest and no work is to be done in it. However, according to Jesus, it is lawful to do good works on the (see Matthew 12:1-12). Breaking Gods Sabbath commandment just like anyone of Gods 10 commandments is sin according to the scriptures (see 1 John 3:4 compare with James 2:10-11) and if we continue practicing known unrepentant sin after we receive a knowledge of the truth of Gods Word we will be in danger of the judgement and can lose everlasting life (see Hebrews 10:26-31).

 

[YoursTrue]

What a lovely response.

The ten commandments are also repeated in Deuteronomy 5:

12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Now now now. Do you believe your forbearers if they were Israelites were truly slaves in Egypt? We can discuss this at length but if we think it's a myth type thing, it's like discussing Alice in Wonderland.

 

[YoursTrue]

Of course not. However, the context in our discussion was Genesis 1 and the creation week and the seventh day Sabbath that God made, blessed and made as a holy day for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11 and Mark 2:27). So no wiggle room here. We both know what the topic is about.

It may sound similar but they're different. God yes made observation of one day a week for the Israelites obligatory. After the Exodus.

 

[3rdAngel]

It may sound similar but they're different. God yes made observation of one day a week for the Israelites obligatory. After the Exodus.

According to the scriptures, there was no Israelite's, no Jews, no Moses when God blessed and made the seventh day of the week a holy day of rest for all mankind (see Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11).