The Mark of the Beast

[Ben Masada]

Then in John 1415`If ye love me, my commands keep,

That's not Jewish. Therefore, not true. Jesus was not God. God is One and incorporeal at that.

Isaiah 42 is practically all about the messiah

Yes, but the collective Messiah and not the an individual one.

Are you jewish?

Yes, a member of the Faith of Jesus, which was Judaism.

and know the truth by the "light of life"

In his Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, Jesus said, "You are the light of the world." (Mat. 5:14)

Ben:

 

[Ben Masada]

Mark of the Beast: Forced worship. See Daniel 3.

Forced worship is an act of psychological cruelty; not a mark.

 

[Green Kepi]

Quote...Ben..."Yes, a member of the Faith of Jesus, which was Judaism"....

Ben...you are continuing being "held prisoner" by the Law...(Gal.3:23). The Law was given by God to lead the "world" to Christ. Now that He has come..."we" are no longer under the supervision of the Law. I could read your denials all day long and still...Gal. 3:26 will still hold me to the belief that "we are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus"...(of course...you most likely will continue debating that until the "Day" that we all will know who was correct or not....

 

[Bishadi]

Then in John 1415`If ye love me, my commands keep,

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That's not Jewish. Therefore, not true. Jesus was not God. God is One and incorporeal at that.

Never said HE was, God don't talk to mankind; never has!


and since, we all "his children" and born within HIS existence; we are truly God's creations.

Gen 3: 22And Jehovah God saith, `Lo, the man was as one of Us, as to the knowledge of good and evil; and now, lest he send forth his hand, and have taken also of the tree of life, and eaten, and lived to the age,' --

collective Messiah and not the an individual one.

what a cool idea...........

'collective messiah'.............. great slot to put Darwin in!

(i consider any who give of themselves for the 'evolution of knowledge' are them who make it into the 'book of life')

Yes, a member of the Faith of Jesus, which was Judaism.

Jesus did not like Judaim! He preached without 'the gate' (jeruselem) or blessing of the rabbinical staffing. (the jews)

Kicked over the usuary on the steps as well died by the hands of the people who were of judaism

Jesus was dangerous because he freed people from the requisite of the jewish 'system' of beliefs.

although there is a line item within th bible that shares a man asking jesus whom to follow when he is gone and he said 'jacob'

but what is clear is how the misfits of judaism are reduced to the reality of injeel........... (6 commands)

that is one area to know Jesus' true understanding; that the 'homage commands' is not honoring God; doing what is right is how to show responsibility, compassion and love (for all; which is GOD)

In his Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, Jesus said, "You are the light of the world." (Mat. 5:14)

Ben:

all life is of the light (bonafide fact)

 

[Bishadi]

Forced worship is an act of psychological cruelty; not a mark.

What a great statement you shared!

Religions are not the truth and homage and worship is the single most corrupt aspect next to blantantly lying to people to impose guilt and requisites of homage.

 

[1prophet]

The problem you folks are having is that when Paul uses the word "law" he is referring to 2 different things. One is the Mosaic Law and the other is the sacrificial/ceremonial laws. The Bible does not use footnotes or differentiate which "law" Paul is talking about when he says "law". YOU need to figure it out. Notice how Paul interjects the term law (Mosaic) with law (sacrificial laws of the Levites - of whom there are no more!

1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.


He is talking about 2 different meanings of law here. It should read this way...


1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law (of sacrifices), as under the law (Mosaic), that I might gain them that are under the law (of sacrifices);
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law (Mosaic law), as without law (sacrificial law), (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law (mosaic law).


Here are some more points about Paul -

Paul follows all the Laws and follows “the Way”

Act 24:14
(GW) But I'll admit to you that I'm a follower of the way of Christ, which they call a sect. This means that I serve our ancestors' God and believe everything written in Moses' Teachings and the Prophets.

Is he a liar or hypocrite? No...

Paul Chastises Cephas for not following the Mosaic Law

Gal 2:14 But I saw that they were not properly following the truth of the Good News. So I told Cephas in front of everyone, "You're Jewish, but you live like a person who is not Jewish. So how can you insist that people who are not Jewish must live like Jews?"

And here Paul is talking about people COMING TO LAW - not avoiding law...

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Paul was the one who GOT IT FIGURED OUT CORRECTLY as Jesus himself trained him. Paul has been used as a scapegoat for people ungrounded in the word. Peter tells us this too...

2Pe 3:16
(GW) He talks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in his letters are hard to understand. Ignorant people and people who aren't sure of what they believe distort what Paul says in his letters the same way they distort the rest of the Scriptures. These people will be destroyed.

Paul is/was the master - except for the Master himself.

 

[Judgment]

Ben: Don't blame Jesus for the confusion among religious sects.

I place no blame. The Nazarenes were Jews and Gentiles - God did not prefer one group over another - 'All' were accepted.... if they so wished.

What you see as confusion is the growth of consciousness for the overall human race.

Ben: Produce an evidence for what you say. If it's Jewish, I am ready to accept it. If it's not, it will definitely be not true.

I have produced evidence in the form of Jesus' own words - how he moved away from the Pharisees - away from Judaism. Anything that does not match with the Tanakh is discarded by you.

You continue to ask for evidence - why - if you will only discard it ?

Ben: You are accusing Jesus with the purpose to separate him from what he was: A religious Jew.

I go by Jesus' own words.

You believe no Jew could ever Deny/ change the old teachings. I believe an Enlightened Jew could see through archaic teachings.

God should be questioned. Nothing should be followed blindly.

Ben: Bring them up. Let's discuss them.

God: "You shall not kill"

John (me): Yes God - this makes sense.

God: "Kill them all - including the infants!"

John: Um, but you just said...

God: I command you - Obey me!

John: F off! Do your own dirty work.
Lets....

 

[Ben Masada]

[/color][/size]

Never said HE was, God don't talk to mankind; never has!


and since, we all "his children" and born within HIS existence; we are truly God's creations.

Gen 3: 22And Jehovah God saith, `Lo, the man was as one of Us, as to the knowledge of good and evil; and now, lest he send forth his hand, and have taken also of the tree of life, and eaten, and lived to the age,' --

Ben: I suggest you to read my thread "The Double Allegory of Creation."

 

[Ben Masada]

Quote...Ben..."Yes, a member of the Faith of Jesus, which was Judaism"....

Ben...you are continuing being "held prisoner" by the Law...(Gal.3:23). The Law was given by God to lead the "world" to Christ. Now that He has come..."we" are no longer under the supervision of the Law. I could read your denials all day long and still...Gal. 3:26 will still hold me to the belief that "we are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus"...(of course...you most likely will continue debating that until the "Day" that we all will know who was correct or not....

Ben: This is only Pauline rhetoric. Jesus did not effect any change of that sort.

 

[Ben Masada]

The problem you folks are having is that when Paul uses the word "law" he is referring to 2 different things. One is the Mosaic Law and the other is the sacrificial/ceremonial laws. The Bible does not use footnotes or differentiate which "law" Paul is talking about when he says "law". YOU need to figure it out. Notice how Paul interjects the term law (Mosaic) with law (sacrificial laws of the Levites - of whom there are no more!


Ben: Jesus never distinguished between laws and laws when he declared that he had not come to abolish them. He said the Law and the Prophets. Why would Paul make that distinction for him? This is to stand against by contradicting him.

1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.


Ben: This is a confession of hypocrisy.

Paul follows all the Laws and follows “the Way”


Ben: Paul founded Christianity and followed it for the rest of his life. "The Way" was not Christianity by the Sect of the Nazarenes.

Is he a liar or hypocrite? No...


Ben: Both.

Paul Chastises Cephas for not following the Mosaic Law


Ben: Do you see what I mean?

Gal 2:14 But I saw that they were not properly following the truth of the Good News. So I told Cephas in front of everyone, "You're Jewish, but you live like a person who is not Jewish. So how can you insist that people who are not Jewish must live like Jews?"


Ben: Because Peter was a Nazarene. And the converts of the Nazarenes would become Jewish.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:


Ben: Who gave Paul the right to eliminate Kashrut and the laws with regards to the Sabbaths if Jesus didn't abolish anything according to Matthew 5:17-19? That's Paul contradicting Jesus.

Paul was the one who GOT IT FIGURED OUT CORRECTLY as Jesus himself trained him. Paul has been used as a scapegoat for people ungrounded in the word. Peter tells us this too...


Ben: Paul never saw Jesus. When he showed up in scene Jesus had been gone for about 30 years.

Ben: :clap

 

[Bishadi]

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Ben: I suggest you to read my thread "The Double Allegory of Creation."

and your point is?

The thread OP on Allegory of Creation was a bastardization of Torah.

as each rendition are nothing but opinions of Genesis. they reminded me of midtrash or talmut kind of writing; what makes people happy!

seems you even choke on items when you read them as i see how you judge

Ben: This is a confession of hypocrisy.

as that is how much of your responses are being observed

 

[Ben Masada]

I place no blame. The Nazarenes were Jews and Gentiles - God did not prefer one group over another - 'All' were accepted.... if they so wished.

Ben: The Nazarenes were not Jews and Gentiles. They were all Jews. Don't forget that the Gentiles conveted to the Sect of the Nazarenes would become Jewish.

I have produced evidence in the form of Jesus' own words - how he moved away from the Pharisees - away from Judaism. Anything that does not match with the Tanakh is discarded by you.

Ben: You are confusing Jesus with Paul. This was the one who had a grudge against the Paharisees for having never permitted him to build a church in Israeli soil.

You continue to ask for evidence - why - if you will only discard it ?

I go by Jesus' own words.

Ben: Anything about Jesus or that he said which is not Jewish cannot be true. Don't forget he was a religious Jew.

You believe no Jew could ever Deny/ change the old teachings. I believe an Enlightened Jew could see through archaic teachings.

Ben: In that case Jesus was an archaic Teacher, because he declared that he didn't come to change anything. (Mat. 5:17)

God should be questioned. Nothing should be followed blindly.

Ben: God is not a man to be questioned.

God: "You shall not kill"

John (me): Yes God - this makes sense.

God: "Kill them all - including the infants!"

Ben: That had nothing to do with God. It was a custom of migrating peoples, looking for a place to settle down to attack and kill everyone. That was therefore, a human order.

Ben:

 

[Judgment]

Ben: The Nazarenes were not Jews and Gentiles. They were all Jews. Don't forget that the Gentiles conveted to the Sect of the Nazarenes would become Jewish.

Gentiles were accepted in to the fellowship based on a version of the Noahide Laws.

Ben: You are confusing Jesus with Paul. This was the one who had a grudge against the Paharisees for having never permitted him to build a church in Israeli soil.

The player is broken - and the record is repeating.

Ben: In that case Jesus was an archaic Teacher, because he declared that he didn't come to change anything. (Mat. 5:17)

Archaic would describe old teachings. Jesus brought new teachings that enlightened the world.

Ben: God is not a man to be questioned.

Everything is to be questioned. Follow blindly and you will only fall through the trap door.

Ben: That had nothing to do with God. It was a custom of migrating peoples, looking for a place to settle down to attack and kill everyone. That was therefore, a human order.

Do you not recognize Yahweh's words ? Unless - Are you saying this is an example of Man putting words in to God's mouth ?

"I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. (1st Sam 15:2-3)"

 

[Ben Masada]

Gentiles were accepted in to the fellowship based on a version of the Noahide Laws.

Ben: Incorrect! James and the Elders of the Sect of the Nazarenes recommended the Noahite laws to the converts of Paul, because they would turn back to become Gentiles. The converts of the Nazarenes were under the same Jewish regulations as any other normal Jew. Read Acts 21:20.


The player is broken - and the record is repeating.

Ben: Because you are back with the same thing over.



Archaic would describe old teachings. Jesus brought new teachings that enlightened the world.

Ben: One thing is to claim something; another much different is to prove what you claim.


Everything is to be questioned. Follow blindly and you will only fall through the trap door.

Ben: We can question the Scriptures, which were written in the language of man. But God Himself, it's impossible to question.


Do you not recognize Yahweh's words ? Unless - Are you saying this is an example of Man putting words in to God's mouth ?

Ben: Men wrote the Scriptures in the language of man, and attributed them to God in order to add the Divine sanction.

"I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. (1st Sam 15:2-3)"

Ben: You did not write the whole verse 2. It says in there: "This is what the Lord of hosts has to say..." Samuel's reasoning was, that, if he would have said, "This is what I am saying..." he would not be so promptly obeyed than telling the people that the command was from God Himself. Got it?

Ben:

 

[Judgment]

Ben: Incorrect! James and the Elders of the Sect of the Nazarenes recommended the Noahite laws to the converts of Paul, because they would turn back to become Gentiles. The converts of the Nazarenes were under the same Jewish regulations as any other normal Jew. Read Acts 21:20.

They never converted - they were only given rules.

"25As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."

Ben: One thing is to claim something; another much different is to prove what you claim.

The proof is found by looking at the world around you. Jesus is the light that is everywhere.

Ben: We can question the Scriptures, which were written in the language of man. But God Himself, it's impossible to question.

Agree - no scripture should be followed blindly.

I would think that God would want to be questioned - so answers can be clearly given and understood. Surely God's children are curios. If the scriptures are in the language of man.... - where is man to turn for the answers that are sought ?

Ben: Men wrote the Scriptures in the language of man, and attributed them to God in order to add the Divine sanction.

Ben: You did not write the whole verse 2. It says in there: "This is what the Lord of hosts has to say..." Samuel's reasoning was, that, if he would have said, "This is what I am saying..." he would not be so promptly obeyed than telling the people that the command was from God Himself. Got it?

So Samuel lied. He told God's children that the words were from God - when in fact they were from Samuel ?

He lied so that they would obey ?

 

[Bishadi]

Ben: We can question the Scriptures, which were written in the language of man. But God Himself, it's impossible to question.


Do you not recognize Yahweh's words ? Unless - Are you saying this is an example of Man putting words in to God's mouth ?

Ben: Men wrote the Scriptures in the language of man, and attributed them to God in order to add the Divine sanction.

Now since man created ALL Words, then words are what to question.

but to comprehend nature, then never does it contradict God!

the best way to experience 'truth' is not to measure against words but within


"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."


Mankind left 'the garden' based on HIS misunderstanding, not by God as we have always succumbed to nature (God) since day ONE. :faint:

 

[Judgment]

Now since man created ALL Words, then words are what to question.

but to comprehend nature, then never does it contradict God!

the best way to experience 'truth' is not to measure against words but within


"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."


Mankind left 'the garden' based on HIS misunderstanding, not by God as we have always succumbed to nature (God) since day ONE. :faint:

That darn Buddha.. He was a wise one

 

[DallasApple]

Believe nothing confuses me..

If I dont "believe " anything" then ....I shouldnt believe what I just said..And I can call you a liar if you quote me...thats just not right..

Love

Dallas

 

[Bishadi]

That darn Buddha.. He was a wise one

Hello Sir Judgment,

each of truth can see the wisdom and comprehend equally

That is what shares the true knowledge!

 

[Twilight Hue]

Believe nothing confuses me..

If I dont "believe " anything" then ....I shouldnt believe what I just said..And I can call you a liar if you quote me...thats just not right..

Love

Dallas

Which, "just not right" is actually right, because you just believed what you said here. Of course you can call me a liar. It's o.k.