The masked truth....

[Unveiled Artist]

The other side can, to be blunt and frank, shut the **** up when the are getting people sick, hurt, amd killed. They have no right to be a danger to others.

Sheesh.


I do not have the same attitude as you guys.


I never disagreed with any pro maskers and never said I was against it.

But this does prove my point. Why take one side and curse the other. It's JUST conversation

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But doesn't people have the right to have both sides of the story?

Burning anti-maskers to the stake, blocking, deleting, etc info supposedly against masks is more ignorance than basing ones views by both sides of the story.

People against religion may say they believe in freedom is better than indoctrination but then be religious with there mask views, scriptural with their data, and ignore the other side.

It's hypocritical

Laugh if you want, spreading dangerous misinformation that is directly responsible for the serious illness, serious injury, and deaths of people is no laughing matter. You can laugh, but I don't think morgues and crematories being needlessly stuffes beyond capacity is funny. The false covid information--including bs about masks--is responsible for that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sheesh.


I do not have the same attitude as you guys.


I never disagreed with any pro maskers and never said I was against it.

But this does prove my point. Why take one side and curse the other. It's JUST conversation

Because one side is getting people killed. One side is crippling America. One side is making this way worse by spreading fallacies and lies.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I can't find where I'm laughing in my comment.

Laugh if you want, spreading dangerous misinformation that is directly responsible for the serious illness, serious injury, and deaths of people is no laughing matter. You can laugh, but I don't think morgues and crematories being needlessly stuffes beyond capacity is funny. The false covid information--including bs about masks--is responsible for that.

Are you reacting to what you "think" I'm saying and not what I actually said and meant (if asked?)?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Because one side is getting people killed. One side is crippling America. One side is making this way worse by spreading fallacies and lies.

I don't know if I said it to you but I said it to Christine and the rest-I'm indifferent about masks; I wear them. So be. My opinions aren't specific to the masks. It's thinks like capitol punishment, and revenge.

I just don't have that type of attitude against people who did do wrong or who I perceive as doing wrong. To fuss about not wearing masks is not worth getting killed over.

If I'm not near you and you're not near me and we wear masks, taking off our masks won't put us in danger anymore than putting them on will save us. So, it is not the masks themselves but what we do to prevent the spread of the disease. Some precautions are less risk than others and masks are One of many ways to fight against the disease and especially masks shouldn't be a political reason to say one side cares about people more than the other side.

The attitude is ridiculous not the masks issue.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can't find where I'm laughing in my comment.

You gave a comment of mine about false information making people sick and killing them as funny.

The attitude is ridiculous not the masks issue.

The ridiculousness comes in sughesting fatal fallacies have as much right to stamd on equal ground for considerations as facts that have been shown time and time and time again to significantly reduce the chances of covid spreading. One side's opinion is dangerous and not worth a ****. Ones side opinion is based in science and grounded in evidence amd has helped many countries fair far better than America.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You gave a comment of mine about false information making people sick and killing them as funny.

Wait. I'll come back to the rest. Never in my life in the whole RF have I laughed at something like this. Can you find the post number please?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wait. I'll come back to the rest. Never in my life in the whole RF have I laughed at something like this. Can you find the post number please?

The other side can, to be blunt and frank, shut the **** up when the are getting people sick, hurt, amd killed. They have no right to be a danger to others.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Youtube & other providers are businesses, not government.
They have a right to censor what they provide.
This doesn't deny anyone else their right to free speech or information.
It would be irresponsible to provide a platform for dangerously bad info.

Well said.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Did Trump supporters say why they doubt? Trump didn't give a reason really. Just said it was his choice and people have choices.

Yes, Trump and his supporters have invented lame excuses for opposing masks, to avoid having to admit the real reason (that it’s humiliating for them).

The excuses cited, are many.

For example, in one southern state ... I believe it was North Carolina ... local Republican Sherrifs refused to enforce the Democratic governor’s mask order because it Is “unenforceable” and because “you can’t tell people what to do in America”.

These statements, when uttered by a Sherrifs who hasn’t even tried to enforce the order, are absurd on their face and are in fact self-fulfilling. It’s obvious the Sheriff doesn’t *want* to enforce the order and he’s rationalizing that opposition post-hoc (poorly).

As for Trump and masks ... if you think for the first time, something other than his own ego drove his attitude towards something, then you should get a scholarship to Trump University and become a rear admiral in the Space Force.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I read your post the first time.


Do you have the post number of my laughing specifically of not caring about others and laughing at they are being put in danger?

It has to be direct statement.

I can't take your word for it knowing that it is not in myself and nature to do (to not care for others and laugh at them).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, Trump and his supporters have invented lame excuses for opposing masks, to avoid having to admit the real reason (that it’s humiliating for them).

The excuses cited, are many.

For example, in one southern state ... I believe it was North Carolina ... local Republican Sherrifs refused to enforce the Democratic governor’s mask order because it Is “unenforceable” and because “you can’t tell people what to do in America”.

These statements, when uttered by a Sherrifs who hasn’t even tried to enforce the order, are absurd on their face and are in fact self-fulfilling. It’s obvious the Sheriff doesn’t *want* to enforce the order and he’s rationalizing that opposition post-hoc (poorly).

As for Trump and masks ... if you think for the first time, something other than his own ego drove his attitude towards something, then you should get a scholarship to Trump University and become a rear admiral in the Space Force.

Well, the sheriff should have enforced it regardless his opinion on the subject. So, I get that.

Trump's ego and other things people say about him aside, I know he mentioned he doesn't wear masks because people have a choice. It's a fact people do have choices in and of themselves despite our opinions about the morality of their choice.

I hear things like because it's uncomfortable, it takes away our freedom, it is a political statement, and things like that. Though, I couldn't find any video that mentioned the masks aren't effective and specifically why. The "other side" is put down, deleted, so have you to get a real feel of the situation besides belittling people we say are harming others because what they decide not to wear.

 

[Revoltingest]

Did the provider say the masks are benefitial, though?

YouTube has a lot of content not benefitial to many who watch. Even athlete shows will say "were not doctors" and leave viewers to choose what's right for themselves. Of course they have the right, but that doesn't invalidate my point it's best people have both sides. It would have been nice if the video stayed. Not because I agree or disagree with it, but just to see various opinions of the mask debate. Media tends to be one sided and put down anyone who disagrees with masks.

Rights aside, it just would have been nice to watch the whole video. I'm indifferent to either side so it just would have been nice

Alas, our curiosity isn't always satisfied.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Well, the sheriff should have enforced it regardless his opinion on the subject. So, I get that.

Trump's ego and other things people say about him aside, I know he mentioned he doesn't wear masks because people have a choice. It's a fact people do have choices in and of themselves despite our opinions about the morality of their choice.

I hear things like because it's uncomfortable, it takes away our freedom, it is a political statement, and things like that. Though, I couldn't find any video that mentioned the masks aren't effective and specifically why. The "other side" is put down, deleted, so have you to get a real feel of the situation besides belittling people we say are harming others because what they decide not to wear.

Unveiled Artist, I agree we cannot simply belittle people in order to persuade them.

But we also should not kid ourselves about the real, underlying reason 30% or so of the population does not take mask wearing seriously.

One thing conservatives say they value - and I agree with this - is personal responsibility. Contrary to what liberals sometimes say, I agree with conservatives that not everyone’s feelings are valid. Particularly when we have 1,000 people dying a day in this country - by far the most common cause of death.

So, following conservative values, those who do not take wearing masks seriously need to take responsibility for their choice and the harm it is causing. If they dismissed COVID-19 as “just the flu” and just a way to hurt Trump’s reputation in the beginning, they need to take responsibility for being wrong about that. The way to do that, is to take this seriously going forward.

But, 30% or so of the population refuses to take that personal responsibility. I have tried, and failed, to reason with those friends and family in my life who refuse to take mask wearing seriously. So have the experts. As a result of their choice - and you are quite right, it is their choice - I am not interested in wasting more of my time holding someone’s hand, and helping them understand the science behind mask-wearing, if they do not show an openness to learning and a willingness to do their part.

At some point, as Voltaire once said, ridicule becomes an appropriate response to absurdity. If the real reason 30% of the population refuses to take masks seriously is because it’s embarrassing, then perhaps it’s time they learn that blindly following Dr. Trump and his quack medical advice is even more embarrassing. Because it is. Let’s not coddle people and hide this fact from them any further - time to be brutally honest and hold up a mirror.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Well, the sheriff should have enforced it regardless his opinion on the subject. So, I get that.

Trump's ego and other things people say about him aside, I know he mentioned he doesn't wear masks because people have a choice. It's a fact people do have choices in and of themselves despite our opinions about the morality of their choice.

I hear things like because it's uncomfortable, it takes away our freedom, it is a political statement, and things like that. Though, I couldn't find any video that mentioned the masks aren't effective and specifically why. The "other side" is put down, deleted, so have you to get a real feel of the situation besides belittling people we say are harming others because what they decide not to wear.

Just to follow up: to wit, wearing a mask is less comfortable than not wearing one. Can you think of something even less comfortable? I can. Like being hospitalized. Or putting others at risk of being hospitalized.

This is the kind of over-dramatic complaint I would expect from a toddler who doesn’t want to hold their parent’s hand at Disney World. Not from a grown adult. I’m not sure we should dignify it with an answer ... no shirt, no shoes, no mask - no service.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Unveiled Artist, I agree we cannot simply belittle people in order to persuade them.

But we also should not kid ourselves about the real, underlying reason 30% or so of the population does not take mask wearing seriously.

One thing conservatives say they value - and I agree with this - is personal responsibility. Contrary to what liberals sometimes say, I agree with conservatives that not everyone’s feelings are valid. Particularly when we have 1,000 people dying a day in this country - by far the most common cause of death.

So, following conservative values, those who do not take wearing masks seriously need to take responsibility for their choice and the harm it is causing. If they dismissed COVID-19 as “just the flu” and just a way to hurt Trump’s reputation in the beginning, they need to take responsibility for being wrong about that. The way to do that, is to take this seriously going forward.

But, 30% or so of the population refuses to take that personal responsibility. I have tried, and failed, to reason with those friends and family in my life who refuse to take mask wearing seriously. So have the experts. As a result of their choice - and you are quite right, it is their choice - I am not interested in wasting more of my time holding someone’s hand, and helping them understand the science behind mask-wearing, if they do not show an openness to learning and a willingness to do their part.

At some point, as Voltaire once said, ridicule becomes an appropriate response to absurdity. If the real reason 30% of the population refuses to take masks seriously is because it’s embarrassing, then perhaps it’s time they learn that blindly following Dr. Trump and his quack medical advice is even more embarrassing. Because it is. Let’s not coddle people and hide this fact from them any further - time to be brutally honest and hold up a mirror.

I don't know too much about protesters (thinking from my own observations) but anti-mask opinions doesn't mean these people don't wear masks. To go in many businesses one has to wear a mask regardless of what one things. For example, a person may think it's alright to carry a gun because she knows she will not harm anyone, but the fact that carrying a gun in X building is against the law, she can't carry it regardless. So, we save lives by our actions not by our opinions.

We can ridicule people for their opinions and even insult them all day long but at the end of the day, unless they are physically not wearing masks, their opinions are really just that. Personally, I don't have the same attitude as most people do when they see "thousands of people die" because of COVID. Stats doesn't affect me. I do know masks help medical professionals say at hospitals. These are observations mostly rather than looking at books that tell me how much they help and how much they don't.

But at the end of the day, the only people that seems to be troubling in the mask-perspective seems like the protesters. But then again, we know our own bodies so we can't generalize to say we are automatically asymptomatic the next day and in fear of spreading germs to others. But the opinions are really opinions. Maybe being less judgmental to anti-maskers and maybe seeing their point of view of things. Some people are not "stat" people. Some are kinesthetic, some learn from experience, some are more visual, others more listening. I think that the people on t.v. have to generalize. We don't know everyone's particular situation.

Did Trump give medical advice? I know he has a lot of opinions people disagree with but not sure if he gave medical advice-and even more so-shouldn't we expect those who listen to government officials know what to take in and what to disregard?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Just to follow up: to wit, wearing a mask is less comfortable than not wearing one. Can you think of something even less comfortable? I can. Like being hospitalized. Or putting others at risk of being hospitalized.

This is the kind of over-dramatic complaint I would expect from a toddler who doesn’t want to hold their parent’s hand at Disney World. Not from a grown adult. I’m not sure we should dignify it with an answer ... no shirt, no shoes, no mask - no service.

Personally, wearing masks are uncomfortable. They stop my breathing, I can barely speak through them (I have a low voice), and I can't hear others through them (I have listening issues).

No one seems to care that people can't always obtain the "best" masks or not advized to get actual proper masks. No one seems to get some people cannot wear masks and they have to do other things like social distancing to make up for what they can't put on their faces. No one seems to get social distancing is better than masks (the further away you are, the less likely you'll transmit diseases for example) and that people know this. No one seems to care that anti-maskers may care about others but have other means to not spread germs that may put them at a discomfort level (like they can't hug people). I was even told I'm making excuses for people who can't wear masks because of "other" lung conditions that may or may not be in the same group as other coronaviruses.

Think about the no smoking rule. If someone is accustomed to smoking but can't in say a government building they will feel uncomfortable. However, their discomfort and opinions doesn't change the rules. People aren't getting sick from second hand smoke not because of their opinion but because they don't smoke.

I've been in the hospital many times, many times and it felt uncomfortable wearing masks, having a catheter, a gauge over my head, without clothes on, and away from people as not to spread my illness to others. But my opinions and discomfort (that wasn't life threatening) is really besides the point.

As long as they do wear masks, the risk of spreading the disease will lower. I don't see it as the highest protection but regardless of our opinions, our actions save lives not what we say.

Long comment for short points but hope you get where I'm coming from.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I don't know too much about protesters (thinking from my own observations) but anti-mask opinions doesn't mean these people don't wear masks. To go in many businesses one has to wear a mask regardless of what one things. For example, a person may think it's alright to carry a gun because she knows she will not harm anyone, but the fact that carrying a gun in X building is against the law, she can't carry it regardless. So, we save lives by our actions not by our opinions.

We can ridicule people for their opinions and even insult them all day long but at the end of the day, unless they are physically not wearing masks, their opinions are really just that. Personally, I don't have the same attitude as most people do when they see "thousands of people die" because of COVID. Stats doesn't affect me. I do know masks help medical professionals say at hospitals. These are observations mostly rather than looking at books that tell me how much they help and how much they don't.

But at the end of the day, the only people that seems to be troubling in the mask-perspective seems like the protesters. But then again, we know our own bodies so we can't generalize to say we are automatically asymptomatic the next day and in fear of spreading germs to others. But the opinions are really opinions. Maybe being less judgmental to anti-maskers and maybe seeing their point of view of things. Some people are not "stat" people. Some are kinesthetic, some learn from experience, some are more visual, others more listening. I think that the people on t.v. have to generalize. We don't know everyone's particular situation.

Did Trump give medical advice? I know he has a lot of opinions people disagree with but not sure if he gave medical advice-and even more so-shouldn't we expect those who listen to government officials know what to take in and what to disregard?

Trump has downplayed the virus since the beginning and yes he’s given what I would call quack medical advice. I.e., he’s weighing in on issues that are (a) deadly serious, (b) he knows less than nothing about, (c) he has enormous power to influence and has a presumed trust because he has access to more and better expert fact and opinion than almost anyone (notwithstanding that he squanders it).

He denied the facts to downplay the virus. He ignored warnings from his advisors. For some weird reason, he made the question of one particular drug, hydroxychloroquine, a personal matter rather than simply a medical question. He suggested bleach or light “inside the body” should be explored. What else do you expect from the guy who literally altered the observed path of a hurricane, with a sharpie, then lied about having done so.

On masks specifically, until recently he has sent his loyal supporters - who he himself said would still follow him even if he shot someone in the middle of Fifth Ave - a confusing and mixed message on masks. This is not unlike the dog whistles he blows to provide aid and comfort to his racist supporters ... sure my advisors say wear a mask ... BUT ... I’m not wearing one, and you don’t have to wear one at my rallies, and maybe they don’t work ... wink, wink!

Trump says face masks are 'patriotic' after months of largely resisting wearing one

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Personally, wearing masks are uncomfortable. They stop my breathing, I can barely speak through them (I have a low voice), and I can't hear others through them (I have listening issues).

No one seems to care that people can't always obtain the "best" masks or not advized to get actual proper masks. No one seems to get some people cannot wear masks and they have to do other things like social distancing to make up for what they can't put on their faces. No one seems to get social distancing is better than masks (the further away you are, the less likely you'll transmit diseases for example) and that people know this. No one seems to care that anti-maskers may care about others but have other means to not spread germs that may put them at a discomfort level (like they can't hug people). I was even told I'm making excuses for people who can't wear masks because of "other" lung conditions that may or may not be in the same group as other coronaviruses.

Think about the no smoking rule. If someone is accustomed to smoking but can't in say a government building they will feel uncomfortable. However, their discomfort and opinions doesn't change the rules. People aren't getting sick from second hand smoke not because of their opinion but because they don't smoke.

I've been in the hospital many times, many times and it felt uncomfortable wearing masks, having a catheter, a gauge over my head, without clothes on, and away from people as not to spread my illness to others. But my opinions and discomfort (that wasn't life threatening) is really besides the point.

As long as they do wear masks, the risk of spreading the disease will lower. I don't see it as the highest protection but regardless of our opinions, our actions save lives not what we say.

Long comment for short points but hope you get where I'm coming from.

Thanks, Unveiled Artist. I appreciate you sharing your personal story here. I empathize with you as when I was a kid, I spent a lot of time in the hospital, too - not that it can compare to what you’ve gone through I’m sure, but I can relate a little bit.

There are always exceptions to the rule. If someone is truly enfeebled or elderly and a mask makes them miserable, of course they deserve some slack, and some compassion.

For the rest of them - and that is the vast majority - they are acting like spoiled children, and I can no longer keep up the pretense that they are grown adults. It’s become too exhausting. They’ve “lost their privileges” so to speak and I’ll speak to them like and adult when they are ready to act like adults again!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Trump has downplayed the virus since the beginning and yes he’s given what I would call quack medical advice. I.e., he’s weighing in on issues that are (a) deadly serious, (b) he knows less than nothing about, (c) he has enormous power to influence and has a presumed trust because he has access to more and better expert fact and opinion than almost anyone (notwithstanding that he squanders it).

He denied the facts to downplay the virus. He ignored warnings from his advisors. For some weird reason, he made the question of one particular drug, hydroxychloroquine, a personal matter rather than simply a medical question. He suggested bleach or light “inside the body” should be explored. What else do you expect from the guy who literally altered the observed path of a hurricane, with a sharpie, then lied about having done so.

On masks specifically, until recently he has sent his loyal supporters - who he himself said would still follow him even if he shot someone in the middle of Fifth Ave - a confusing and mixed message on masks. This is not unlike the dog whistles he blows to provide aid and comfort to his racist supporters ... sure my advisors say wear a mask ... BUT ... I’m not wearing one, and you don’t have to wear one at my rallies, and maybe they don’t work ... wink, wink!

Trump says face masks are 'patriotic' after months of largely resisting wearing one

Hm. I usually listen to the talks he gives on Youtube to the public so I can hear it from his mouth. Tweets and things like that are secondary resources, I guess one can say or third. Media I don't give time a day since they tend to be biased. I bet Trump, himself, isn't as bad as people say he is. Just I think he's not in an appropriate role to be president. I don't think people even liked him from the start. First impressions.