Perhaps you are struggling with the inherent similarities between Christianity and Islam?
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The Messianic verses of Isaiah
- Thread starter Dawnofhope
- Start date
Perhaps you are struggling with the inherent similarities between Christianity and Islam?
You sure about that?
When Jesus heard that, he said, "This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby." John 11:4
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
You sure about that?
When Jesus heard that, he said, "This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby." John 11:4
Yeah.... I'm sure about that........
Circa 100-120 CE, G-John took hold of a bundle of assorted reports, jumbled them up into a very strange timeline, added masses of evangelical extravagance and hyperbole, mixed in some very naughty fibs, and....... Bingo!.... the book that many Creeds cling to, for dear salvation.
G-Mark is somewhat closer to the true story.
You don't honestly believe that G-John was writ by John BarZebedee do you?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Paul was/is the central figure in most Creeds.
Paul never told anything about Jesus's life or mission.
Jesus's mission lasted about 11-12 months, as shown in G=-Mark.
I thought that Romans actually did the nailing and flogging, etc?
.... to be judged by their actions, not words. Oh dear!.
Now....... did OT prophecies get all that right? A little bit right even?
That shows he gets Christ slightly, on being against sacrifice.
This accuses of God of murder; which is Balaam teachings, so to quote all of Jude 1:11.
Woe to them! For they went in the way of Cain (murdered his brother), and ran riotously in the error of Balaam (state God required sacrifice) for hire, and perished in Korah's (stood against the things of God, and was swallowed up in an earth quake) rebellion.
These questions show someone who is not getting the Biblical text, other than from a Pharisaic perspective (John, Paul and Simon).
The Tanakh does get it right; yet in a negative context; there is a snare in Isaiah 8, to catch out the nations by setting the trap in Isaiah 28.
Many Christians have been misled into it by the Pharisees John, Paul and Simon.... Many Jews have been misled by ignoring, what is really going on, as well.
Can explain it with so much prophecy, showing how the whole thing interlinks across the Tanakh, and has all been fulfilled precisely.
OK, so much for Christianity then.
Thought you might be interested in what Abdu'l-Baha has to say about the treatment of animals considering your wife works in a vet clinic.
"It is not only their fellow human beings that the beloved of God must treat with mercy and compassion, rather must they show forth the utmost loving-kindness toevery living creature. For in all physical respects, and where the animal spirit is concerned, the selfsame feelings are shared by animal and man ... The feelings are one and the same, whether ye inflict pain on man or on beast. There is no difference here whatever. And indeed ye do worse to harm an animal, for man hath a language, he can lodge a complaint, he can cry out and moan; if injured he can have recourse to the authorities and these will protect him from his aggressor. But the hapless beast is mute, able neither to express its hurt nor take its case to the authorities ... Therefore it is essential that ye show forth the utmost consideration to the animal, and that ye be even kinder to him than to your fellow man. Train your children from their earliest days to be infinitely tender and loving to animals. If an animal be sick, let them try to heal it, if it be hungry, let them feed it, if thirsty, let them quench its thirst, if weary, let them see that it rests."
Because the text is a riddle, to see if people are paying attention, and so without having a discerning soul that listens to God; many are likely to fail using their own mind.
Both Christianity (John, Paul and Simon) & Islam (Muhammad) are commentaries of what they think is happening, and both are wrong on numerous points; as they've not gone back to the source.
Its hard to know sometimes when Roger is being serious or its his sense of humour.
Perhaps it presumes God had a plan in mind with Christ's crucifixion as far back as Abraham.
Or someone who has read the book of Joshua.
I hate to break the bad news but God isn't a pacifist!
Because the text is a riddle, to see if people are paying attention, and so without having a discerning soul that listens to God; many are likely to fail using their own mind.
Both Christianity (John, Paul and Simon) & Islam (Muhammad) are commentaries of what they think is happening, and both are wrong on numerous points; as they've not gone back to the source.
Like these verses for example!
"Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."
Matthew 24:40-42
There's Jesus holding that sword again
"Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
The tares being the false teachings and doctrines embedded in the Divine teachings.
Sometimes it hard to agree on what is true and what is false
God doesn't murder his saints, and especially not preemptively plan it out over thousands of years....
Do you realize how crazy that sounds?
Yah-Avah isn't a pacifist; yet does strictly follow Law, and regulate it....
What the Pharisees have stated, defiles the Law purposely, to snare the Gentiles.
It isn't ever hard with enough information; it is a lack of foresight, to not ask if we're unsure on something.
Lets question who it is speaking about, as already posted this with its contexts....
The verse you posted from Matthew 24:40-42, is also found in Luke 17:34-37, ending on where the 'Vultures are gathered there the body is'....
These are the ones to be removed all the 'Ravenous' animals, who accept some form of sin sacrifices.
The tares were already explained in Isaiah before this happened; Isaiah 53:10 says 'we turned him into a sin sacrifice'....
This happened after, Yeshua wasn't preaching he came as a sin sacrifice; Paul, John and Simon the stone (petros) did.
Ever heard of the words 'informed consent'? Christ was a willing sacrifice, He wasn't murdered by God. He ascended to be with is father in heaven
Like the destruction of all the inhabitants and animals of Jericho for example:
"So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ***, with the edge of the sword." Joshua 6:20-21
Christianity's a divided body. How many Christians think their way is the best and their brother is in error?
I read eagles, not vultures. They we feasting on the body of the returned Christ. That is partaking of His Holy Teachings.
Sounds like God prophesising about the Crucifixion of Christ.
This happened after, Yeshua wasn't preaching he came as a sin sacrifice; Paul, John and Simon the stone (petros) did.
I'm sure we've covered this particular theological conundrum on a previous occasion
Matthew 12:7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you wouldn’t have condemned the guiltless.
Do you not realize this is about to happen to the whole world, and all those deemed ungodly are to be removed? '
'Most Christians do in someway; why there are more than thirty thousand denominations.
We're dealing with everything the text states, and we can go over it to show where there is any illogical thinking based upon it.
Yeah i did, until checking the Greek (long winged bird); eagles don't hover around dead bodies, they catch fresh meat.
Indeed in multiple places, all in a negative context; which divorced Israel/Judah, ended the Abrahamic covenant, set a snare globally to catch out the workers of iniquity.
Unfortunately if understood, wouldn't need to be pointing out the seriousness, and prophetic statements that are about to happen.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
OK, so much for Christianity then.
Thought you might be interested in what Abdu'l-Baha has to say about the treatment of animals considering your wife works in a vet clinic.
"It is not only their fellow human beings that the beloved of God must treat with mercy and compassion, rather must they show forth the utmost loving-kindness toevery living creature. For in all physical respects, and where the animal spirit is concerned, the selfsame feelings are shared by animal and man ... The feelings are one and the same, whether ye inflict pain on man or on beast. There is no difference here whatever. And indeed ye do worse to harm an animal, for man hath a language, he can lodge a complaint, he can cry out and moan; if injured he can have recourse to the authorities and these will protect him from his aggressor. But the hapless beast is mute, able neither to express its hurt nor take its case to the authorities ... Therefore it is essential that ye show forth the utmost consideration to the animal, and that ye be even kinder to him than to your fellow man. Train your children from their earliest days to be infinitely tender and loving to animals. If an animal be sick, let them try to heal it, if it be hungry, let them feed it, if thirsty, let them quench its thirst, if weary, let them see that it rests."
Fair enough, but to be straight with you, I would always prefer to read Bahauallah, the fundamental source.
Was Abdul Baha a vegetarian?
roger1440
I do stuff
Nowhere in the New Testament does it encourage people to be willing sacrifices. The New Testament does encourage people to sacrifice there will for the will of God but nowhere does it say to allow oneself to be murdered by their enemy. Both the New Testament and Josephus report that Herod had John the Baptist executed. Neither story says John went willingly. The Book of Acts reports two martyr instances. Both stories do not mention they went willingly to their death.
“1About that time, King Herod reached out to inflict harm on some who belonged to the church. 2He had James, the brother of John, put to death with the sword.” (Acts 12:1-2)
“dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.” (Acts 7:58)
All these really cool stories we read about Christian martyrdom do not come about until the 2nd century. These stories are propaganda. They are written to encourage Christians to stand firm in their faith even if it meant their own death. They would be rewarded in the Afterlife. But read some of these stories closely. In some of these stories the wild beasts refuse to tear apart the Christians. What’s up with this? Aren’t Christians tasty enough for lions and tigers? These stories are larger than life. You don’t have to take my word for it. Just climb into a lion’s den and shut the door behind you. See how far it gets you. You can wave a cross all you want, in the end you will still end up being lunch. I’m not saying Christians were not martyred. What I am saying is that the stories are greatly exaggerated to promote this new religion. It is the emphasis on the afterlife that gave these people the courage to sacrifice their life. Or did they give up on life for an ideology? You know why the Crusades were such an easy sell? The Pope had promised if one died in battle the person would go to the front of the line at the pearly gates. You would think if the willingness to die for our beliefs is acceptable to God, it would have been mentioned in the Gospels. Did Jesus forget that part? I don’t think so.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Absolutely...........
And....... neither Jesus nor the Baptist supported 'sacrifice for remission of sins', but I understand that you accept this.
The single most huge guide for all was that if the 613 OT laws were kept then sickness would be kept away, both personally and within the tribes. Jesus was prepared to cure sickness but his parting message was usually 'sin no more'.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
OK, so much for Christianity then.
I perceive a difficulty for Bahai in the above sentence.
If prophecies for Christianity fail, then prophecies for the whole Abrahamic line could be perceived by folks to have failed.
The foundations for one rely upon the previous dispensations.
Further to that, if the prophecies for the Abrahamic line hold up right through, then the Far Eastern religions and faiths are left beyond the whole concept of Theism?
You're damned if you do, damned if you don't?
Like any verse, we need to understand it in context. Jesus speaks earlier about the temple so is telling us that soon the temple sacrifices and offerings will no longer be required. He will become that temple!
In the week leading up to His crucifixion, Jesus clearly knew what was about to happen. Perhaps instead of arguing God committed murder you should argue Jesus committed suicide? That of course would be equally preposterous. Jesus chose to be obedient to the Will of his Father and sacrificed His life for humanity. I am eternally grateful for that sacrifice.
Do you not realize this is about to happen to the whole world, and all those deemed ungodly are to be removed? '
The reason I have started this thread is to assist a better understanding of what prophetic scripture is really saying.
Christianity has moved beyond the point that any one Christian or denomination of Christianity can reform it. Only the teachings of the returned Christ can redeem it.
The point is that Jesus at His last supper offered bread as a symbol of His Body and blood as a symbol of the New Covenant. This bread is also symbolic for the Word of God or His Teachings. A sign of the Returned Christ is that even after His death, there will be a gathering of His faithful followers that will be obvious.
In 1992, 100 years after Baha'u'llah ascended to heaven, the encyclopaedia Britannica recorded that His religion was the second most widespread in the world, Christianity being the first.
Number of followers of the Baha'i faith
Bahá'í statistics - Wikipedia
That doesn't mean to say the Baha'u'llah is the Returned Christ. However, like Christianity if the religion had died not long after its founder had, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
The connection is simply because it is at a time of religious decline that the Messiah comes.
roger1440
I do stuff
I know close to nothing on Islam. So I don’t comment on the religion. But I have a lot to say about people who want to blow me up regardless of what flag they fly. There are always a few bad apples in every bunch, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc.
OK. From the pen of Baha'u'llah:
"He should show kindness to animals, how much more unto his fellow man, to him who is endowed with the power of utterance."
Baha'u'llah, "The Kitb-i-Iqan" (Book of Certitude), p. 194.
"Burden not an animal with more than it can bear. We, truly, have prohibited such treatment through a most binding interdiction in the Book. Be ye the embodiments of justice and fairness amidst all creation."
Baha'u'llah, "The Kitb-i-Aqdas" (Most Holy Book), 187, p. 87
I don't know if Abdu'l-Baha was a vegetarian and he wouldn't have been required to be:
"`Abdu'l-Baha has indicated that in the future human beings will be vegetarians, but abstention from eating meat is not a law of this Dispensation."
The Universal House of Justice, Dec 16, 1998
This statement was probably based on the following writing from Abdu'l-Baha:
As humanity progresses, meat will be used less and less, for the teeth of man are not carnivorous … The human teeth, the molars, are formed to grind grain. The front teeth, the incisors, are for fruits, etc. It is therefore quite apparent, according to the implements for eating, man's food is intended to be grain and not meat. When mankind is more fully developed the eating of meat will gradually cease."
'Abdu'l-Bahá, from "Star of the West", Vol.III, No.10, p29.