The Most Frightening Thing (for me)...

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What frightens me most is this: as a lover of -- and strong believer in -- democracy, I will have to accept that a Donald Trump win would be the right outcome! That all my fears aside, it would be the best way forward for the United States, at this time in its history.

It's still an open question as to whether Trump is even qualified to run.

The Supreme Court case earlier this year didn't establish that Trump was eligible; it only established that the states aren't the ones empowered to make that decision.

 

[Tomef]

a Donald Trump win would be the right outcome!

Right outcome? Maybe a necessary outcome of a system that is as right as political systems can get. Or an acceptable outcome, if the alternative would be having a less desirable system.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

That's what everybody is saying now she has the power to do a lot of stuff she said she's going to do but never does it , so her presidency will be no different and people are noticing that.

Today she has not explained anything about what she's going to do nor what she's about.
All she does is rail on about doing this and that , but never ever explains how she's going to go about it , and has demonstrated the complete inability to explain anything.

She didn't think she had to when she was installed. She knew the media would cover for her and she was going to skate as much as possible but it became apparent she needed to speak which was a disaster. I think we have enough Americans that are wise enough to see through her and vote for Trump. At least I hope so.

 

[tytlyf]

Yeah, Kamala has accomplished nothing on her own and wants to play VP but has done nothing as VP.

What did Mike Pence accomplish as VP besides saving Americans from a dictatorship?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

What did Mike Pence accomplish as VP besides saving Americans from a dictatorship?

What does this have to do with Kamala? Sounds like saving America from a dictatorship is a pretty good accomplishment.

 

[tytlyf]

What does this have to do with Kamala? Sounds like saving America from a dictatorship is a pretty good accomplishment.

Thanks for proving my point. Pence saved America from Trump.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Thanks for proving my point. Pence saved America from Trump.

Ok. Have a great day!

 

[RestlessSoul]

The strength or weakness of any democracy lies with the electorate.

 

[Estro Felino]

I am wondering why a Canadian cares.
I mean...you have a strong wealthy country with a head of state that lives in London.


I may believe there are psychological reasons behind that.
Trump probably or possibly scares people because he is a symbol that evokes unresolved issues within people's psyche.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Right outcome? Maybe a necessary outcome of a system that is as right as political systems can get. Or an acceptable outcome, if the alternative would be having a less desirable system.

Not quite -- only the right outcome so as to avoid abandoning the democratic process altogether.

(That might still happen, of course, should Trump win. But that's something democracy lovers will have to fight another day.)

 

[Nakosis]

I have to admit it -- it's quite possible that Trump could win, and regain his presidency.

Now, my personal opinion is that this would be absolutely horrible for the U.S., and for many other countries in the world. I've discussed all that at length, and that's not the point of this thread, so no more of that.

What frightens me most is this: as a lover of -- and strong believer in -- democracy, I will have to accept that a Donald Trump win would be the right outcome! That all my fears aside, it would be the best way forward for the United States, at this time in its history.

I confess, this is going to be a hard pill to swallow -- but gag as I might, I will swallow it.

I just hope if Harris wins, republicans will have a similar attitude.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I am wondering why a Canadian cares.
I mean...you have a strong wealthy country with a head of state that lives in London.


I may believe there are psychological reasons behind that.
Trump probably or possibly scares people because he is a symbol that evokes unresolved issues within people's psyche.

What happens in the United States has real impact on Canada. We share the longest undefended border in the world with a country 10 times our size and who is our largest trading partner.

And unless the King is standing on Canadian soil, while he is our titular Head of State -- the Governor General of Canada exercises all constitutional powers held by the monarch, and acts with interference from the King, relying only on the rules in the Constitution, and the advice of the Prime Minister, the Head of Government.

 

[Kathryn]

It's still an open question as to whether Trump is even qualified to run.

The Supreme Court case earlier this year didn't establish that Trump was eligible; it only established that the states aren't the ones empowered to make that decision.

I think the powers that be are waiting to see if he wins. If he does, I believe they will say he's ineligible to be President. Oh well, I don't care one way or the other very much.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think the powers that be are waiting to see if he wins. If he does, I believe they will say he's ineligible to be President. Oh well, I don't care one way or the other very much.

It would have been better if there was a firm decision on his eligibility before the election, but the Supreme Court's ruling means that only Congress can decide, and the practical opportunity for this is the count of the EC vote.

 

[Heyo]

I have to admit it -- it's quite possible that Trump could win, and regain his presidency.

Now, my personal opinion is that this would be absolutely horrible for the U.S., and for many other countries in the world. I've discussed all that at length, and that's not the point of this thread, so no more of that.

What frightens me most is this: as a lover of -- and strong believer in -- democracy, I will have to accept that a Donald Trump win would be the right outcome! That all my fears aside, it would be the best way forward for the United States, at this time in its history.

I confess, this is going to be a hard pill to swallow -- but gag as I might, I will swallow it.

I agree that if Trump wins, it should be accepted as a democratic vote.
The problem could have been avoided if the US were a Defensive democracy - Wikipedia. Trump should have never been allowed to run.
The US are already deemed to be a failing democracy and when MAGA gains strength, that is likely to turn into "failed". Europe, and especially Germany and Italy, will have to jump in with great efforts to repay our debt. We'll have to help the US regain democracy.

 

[Estro Felino]

What happens in the United States has real impact on Canada. We share the longest undefended border in the world with a country 10 times our size and who is our largest trading partner.

And unless the King is standing on Canadian soil, while he is our titular Head of State -- the Governor General of Canada exercises all constitutional powers held by the monarch, and acts with interference from the King, relying only on the rules in the Constitution, and the advice of the Prime Minister, the Head of Government.

The truth is that Canada is ten times more independent from the US than Europe (EU) will ever be.

So...if either president is elected...nothing will change for Canadians.
They will remain with their own Trudeau Le Beau.

On the contrary we EU undergo the warlike warmongers who hate our guts and cannot wait to nuke us all.

 

[Estro Felino]

I agree that if Trump wins, it should be accepted as a democratic vote.
The problem could have been avoided if the US were a Defensive democracy - Wikipedia. Trump should have never been allowed to run.

If the democratic candidates were not warmongers who are dying to nuke Europe...I would support them

The truth is that I don't want Central Europe to be turned into a ground zero....
Because they will turn the territory between Germany and Ukraine into a nuclear Battlefield.

The US are already deemed to be a failing democracy and when MAGA gains strength, that is likely to turn into "failed". Europe, and especially Germany and Italy, will have to jump in with great efforts to repay our debt. We'll have to help the US regain democracy.

What debt?
What do the USA have to do with our debt?

 

[Colt]

I have to admit it -- it's quite possible that Trump could win, and regain his presidency.

Now, my personal opinion is that this would be absolutely horrible for the U.S., and for many other countries in the world. I've discussed all that at length, and that's not the point of this thread, so no more of that.

What frightens me most is this: as a lover of -- and strong believer in -- democracy, I will have to accept that a Donald Trump win would be the right outcome! That all my fears aside, it would be the best way forward for the United States, at this time in its history.

I confess, this is going to be a hard pill to swallow -- but gag as I might, I will swallow it.

I voted early yesterday. I voted for Harris. I’m a life long (R). Trump is just way too flawed!

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

if we claim to adhere to democracy, won't we have to accept it? I can't think of a way not to be a hypocrite otherwise.

In my opinion, you're not being a hypocrite if you don't accept a Trump victory.

In a practical sense you wouldn't have a choice, first because you're not American, and second because even Americans will have to live with that.

but psychologically, nobody should accept a Trump win. He's an enemy of democracy and intended to end it and install himself as president from life and above the law. Those aren't principles that one who loves democracy ever need to simply say, "Oh well, he won fair and square, and so I must be content with the will of the people." No. At that point, if there were any way to prevent that legal or illegal, it should be done. Of course, there wouldn't be, but I'm talking about acceptance.

Trump falsely claims that the 2020 election was stolen from him. Even if that were true, as undemocratic as it would be to fix and steal an election, it would be the pro-democratic move assuming you ever want to see democracy in the States again.

Maybe you're familiar with Popper's Paradox, which addresses an analogous situation regarding tolerance:

"If everyone is tolerant of every idea, then intolerant ideas will emerge. Tolerant people will tolerate this intolerance, and the intolerant people will not tolerate the tolerant people."

It's not hypocritical to be intolerant of the intolerant to preserve tolerance in a society, and in my opinion, it's not hypocritical to refuse to be OK with democratic processes that threaten democracy.

This is a sickness. You cannot see truth through your hate. It is sad. All you have is incoherent bizarre conjecture.

The sickness is all yours.

Trump's hatred *IS* the truth, a truth you either can't see or condone.

Here's more paradox. If you love love, then you likely hate its enemies and defend love from them in unloving ways if necessary. Contempt for Trump is an expression of love of country. You don't shame anybody by pointing out that they hate Trump except yourself for failing to do the same.

We see more of this type of paradox with so-called peace officers (police). To protect or restore the peace, sometimes they must resort to physical force including tasers and guns.

 

[Wirey]

They will remain with their own Trudeau Le Beau.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/oust-trudeau-document-1.7350967

Multiple Members of Parliament are trying to force Trudeau to resign.