The movement of the earth in Qur'an

[Shad]

So in the year 1930 they read science and translated the quran differently so we can use them to debate in the 21th century.

Yup which means post hoc rationalization. Translation were changed to match science. This is fallacious. I said after 1930 not right at 1930.

Post hoc - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Rationalization (making excuses) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Shad]

You have asked why ancient muslims didn't think about the heliocentric model and i answered your question that they did.
How that is dishonest when i prove that you were lying ?

Actually you provided a link showing it was rejected over and over again. The only person that may have looked it has no work to prove it. So you have shown nothing as you didn't read what you link. A number of the examples heard of the model and rejected it. Read your own source again. Do you want me to quote your link here and walk you through it piece by piece son? Since you seem to be incapable of reading it.

Nevermind I will quote it later and walk your through it piece by piece. I will be back later today to do so.

 

[Domenic]

I think the POV is very clear. It is also in line with the Bible. To those who can not understand the POV, that is explained also in the scriptures...God says, "I will blind they eye of the un-believer." That means those who do not believe, will never understand scripture, and has proven true over, and over.

 

[Augustus]

Did anyone ask you to be amazed ?
I think it's amazing but it's up to you if you don't see it in similar way as i do.

So your entire point over god knows how many points is that it is not amazing, not remarkable, not worthy of any interest, except that you find it amazing?

Marvellous...

 

[FearGod]

So your entire point over god knows how many points is that it is not amazing, not remarkable, not worthy of any interest, except that you find it amazing?

Marvellous...

Not only me finding it amazing, do you think the whole world had converted to atheism and believing that the stone and nature created the universe by some unknown accidents.

 

[Aquitaine]

I love how one of the apoligists decides to rely on the flexibility of the Arabic language and try to use a different meaning for a word. Which is kind of funny, because why would God communicate to Humans using such a language where certain words can have multiple meanings?

I don't think but i'm sure about it, it isn't scientific facts but observations and science only helped us to understand and study them, one example that one verse about the month of fasting (Ramadan) says ((and eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn)), they asked the prophet, what that thread (line) between day and night, then the prophet said it's when light is distinguished from darkness, so they didn't know about the line because it can be only observed from looking to earth from space and science helped us to fly and to observe such fact.

Sorry, but this again is just a case of trying to mold vague verses into modern observations.
For all you know the author could have believed Day and Night were just two giant threads rotating across the planet - one with Sun in it and one with Stars.
Besides, who're we to claim successful interpretation of "divine" verses - what makes you think yours is correct?

 

[Augustus]

Not only me finding it amazing, do you think the whole world had converted to atheism and believing that the stone and nature created the universe by some unknown accidents.

So basically, you are not the only person in the world that would buy magic beans if they were packaged correctly?

 

[Shad]

Not only me finding it amazing, do you think the whole world had converted to atheism and believing that the stone and nature created the universe by some unknown accidents.

The average person is barely educated and in these days couldn't survive without modern technology. In 3rd world nations, which contain the majority of the Muslim population, education standards are even worse. Some nations have banned teaching evolution. That says a lot about the standards of these institutions. Beside ad populum arguments do not make something true or a fact. Especially when that population have no expertise in any science let alone evolutionary science, abiogenesis, astronomy, cosmology, etc. It would like asking a mechanic what their opinion on the latest cancer treatments developed. The question is moot as a mechanic has no knowledge, education nor expertise in cancer treatment, the mechanic's view is irrelevant. A lot of people use to think the sun orbited the Earth, they were wrong so ad populum argument are irrelevant, hence why it is a fallacy.

Argumentum Ad Populum

 

[FearGod]

I love how one of the apoligists decides to rely on the flexibility of the Arabic language and try to use a different meaning for a word. Which is kind of funny, because why would God communicate to Humans using such a language where certain words can have multiple meanings?

Yes it was silly because the word "ثم" means next and never instantaneously, it was stupid and even shocking as why he understood the word to means instantaneously while it isn't, but i had investigated many medical sources to see if the quran was wrong and i found the info in the quran to be correct, i don't believe in God for fun and i don't care if someone want to agree or disagree, God isn't my Dad and he never needs us.

I don't blindly believes in God, you have your view and i have mine.

Sorry, but this again is just a case of trying to mold vague verses into modern observations.
For all you know the author could have believed Day and Night were just two giant threads rotating across the planet - one with Sun in it and one with Stars.
Besides, who're we to claim successful interpretation of "divine" verses - what makes you think yours is correct?

You can believe it the way you wish i just convey to you what i did understand and believe and that doesn't mean that you should believe what i did, it's your choice at the end.

 

[FearGod]

So basically, you are not the only person in the world that would buy magic beans if they were packaged correctly?

There's no magic beans, that sounds stupid.

 

[FearGod]

The average person is barely educated and in these days couldn't survive without modern technology. In 3rd world nations, which contain the majority of the Muslim population, education standards are even worse. Some nations have banned teaching evolution. That says a lot about the standards of these institutions. Beside ad populum arguments do not make something true or a fact. Especially when that population have no expertise in any science let alone evolutionary science, abiogenesis, astronomy, cosmology, etc. It would like asking a mechanic what their opinion on the latest cancer treatments developed. The question is moot as a mechanic has no knowledge, education nor expertise in cancer treatment, the mechanic's view is irrelevant. A lot of people use to think the sun orbited the Earth, they were wrong so ad populum argument are irrelevant, hence why it is a fallacy.

Argumentum Ad Populum

And it was foretold by the prophet that Muslims will be weak near the last days and that will be due to their leaders, but if you would like to know what Islam did then you should read the Arab history on the day of ignorance till they reached Spain and convey civilization and science to Europe and i know you won't be happy in doing so because the golden history of Islam will disturb your mood.

 

[Domenic]

The average person is barely educated and in these days couldn't survive without modern technology. In 3rd world nations, which contain the majority of the Muslim population, education standards are even worse. Some nations have banned teaching evolution. That says a lot about the standards of these institutions. Beside ad populum arguments do not make something true or a fact. Especially when that population have no expertise in any science let alone evolutionary science, abiogenesis, astronomy, cosmology, etc. It would like asking a mechanic what their opinion on the latest cancer treatments developed. The question is moot as a mechanic has no knowledge, education nor expertise in cancer treatment, the mechanic's view is irrelevant. A lot of people use to think the sun orbited the Earth, they were wrong so ad populum argument are irrelevant, hence why it is a fallacy.

Argumentum Ad Populum

LOL. NASA does all calculations for sending anything into space where the earth is not moving, but all other things rotate around the earth. It does not take a PHD, or any kind of education to reason things out.. Most educated people think the moon has a dark side...it does not. Look up into the sky on a sunny day, and you will see the moon. (most days.) If the moon only showed one side to the earth, how would you be able to see it both day, and night. If the earth rotates (1,000 MPH), a space craft outside of our force of gravity would see it move...they have not. When men were on the moon, the moon (where they were standing) turned away from earth. NASA says the moon has no dark side.
In the Bible it says, "Nothing can move the earth." It also says, "God made the earth, then the heavens." If this is true, what was the earth rotating around before the heavens were made? A group of scientist, using a computer made our solar system where the earth stood still, and everything else rotated around the earth...the results looked like a DNA strand, sort of a twisty cork screw. Science says, The only way to determine if the earth moves, or does not, is to gage it against an object in space they can prove does not move...they have yet to figure out how to do that.
Put this in the front part of your brain. A space ship leaves an earth. The earth is rotating at 1,000 MPH. The second the spaceship is far enough from earth, they would see the earth rotating below them...that would be about 400 miles above the earth...THEY DON"T SEE THE EARTH MOVING.
On a return trip to earth: if the earth was in rotation, the space ship could enter going the same direction the earth was rotating, and lower their speed to 1,000 MPH, and they would just slowly descend without heating up. If the earth is rotating, why don't they do that? BECAUSE THE EARTH IS NOT MOVING, and that is why they will burn up if going to fast in any direction... east, or west.

 

[Aquitaine]

Yes it was silly because the word "ثم" means next and never instantaneously, it was stupid and even shocking as why he understood the word to means instantaneously while it isn't, but i had investigated many medical sources to see if the quran was wrong and i found the info in the quran to be correct, i don't believe in God for fun and i don't care if someone want to agree or disagree, God isn't my Dad and he never needs us.

I don't blindly believes in God, you have your view and i have mine.



You can believe it the way you wish i just convey to you what i did understand and believe and that doesn't mean that you should believe what i did, it's your choice at the end.

I honestly don't mind you having your beliefs and being a Muslim. Just don't try to pass off the Quran as having "scientific miracles" in it.

Please just accept that it is a book of faith, like every other "Holy" book.

 

[Domenic]

I honestly don't mind you having your beliefs and being a Muslim. Just don't try to pass off the Quran as having "scientific miracles" in it.

Please just accept that it is a book of faith, like every other "Holy" book.

You should take the Bib Bang book, and the Evaluation book they use in education, please just accept those two books as faith, like all the other theory stuff they try to pass off as truth. Just don't pass them off as having any scientific miracles in them. And no, I don't mind you not being Christian, or Muslim.

 

[FearGod]

I honestly don't mind you having your beliefs and being a Muslim. Just don't try to pass off the Quran as having "scientific miracles" in it.

Please just accept that it is a book of faith, like every other "Holy" book.

We can't ask people what they have to believe and what they haven't to believe,IOW if one have a view or an idea or a feeling that a verse contains an information which is supported by modern science then why we have to ask him not to discuss it, you may disagree about his idea and then the end is "i don't agree with you, then good luck" , so good luck

 

[FearGod]

You should take the Bib Bang book, and the Evaluation book they use in education, please just accept those two books as faith, like all the other theory stuff they try to pass off as truth. Just don't pass them off as having any scientific miracles in them. And no, I don't mind you not being Christian, or Muslim.

Exactly, what to do and what not to do, but it's OK for what religion you want to follow,but don't think of it other than faith, then the best of all, this one at the end

 

[Aquitaine]

You should take the Bib Bang book, and the Evaluation book they use in education, please just accept those two books as faith, like all the other theory stuff they try to pass off as truth. Just don't pass them off as having any scientific miracles in them. And no, I don't mind you not being Christian, or Muslim.

What is this "Big Bang book" and Evaluation book" you speak of?
Secondly, do not equate scientific theories with religious mythology.

 

[Domenic]

What is this "Big Bang book" and Evaluation book" you speak of?
Secondly, do not equate scientific theories with religious mythology.

You follow science(sic), and I'll follow what you hope is religious mythology...and we will see what side of the pond the duck lays her eggs. There is going to be only two lines standing before God; "Those who believe, and those messing their pants."

 

[Shad]

LOL. NASA does all calculations for sending anything into space where the earth is not moving, but all other things rotate around the earth. It does not take a PHD, or any kind of education to reason things out.. Most educated people think the moon has a dark side...it does not. Look up into the sky on a sunny day, and you will see the moon. (most days.) If the moon only showed one side to the earth, how would you be able to see it both day, and night. If the earth rotates (1,000 MPH), a space craft outside of our force of gravity would see it move...they have not. When men were on the moon, the moon (where they were standing) turned away from earth. NASA says the moon has no dark side.
In the Bible it says, "Nothing can move the earth." It also says, "God made the earth, then the heavens." If this is true, what was the earth rotating around before the heavens were made? A group of scientist, using a computer made our solar system where the earth stood still, and everything else rotated around the earth...the results looked like a DNA strand, sort of a twisty cork screw. Science says, The only way to determine if the earth moves, or does not, is to gage it against an object in space they can prove does not move...they have yet to figure out how to do that.
Put this in the front part of your brain. A space ship leaves an earth. The earth is rotating at 1,000 MPH. The second the spaceship is far enough from earth, they would see the earth rotating below them...that would be about 400 miles above the earth...THEY DON"T SEE THE EARTH MOVING.
On a return trip to earth: if the earth was in rotation, the space ship could enter going the same direction the earth was rotating, and lower their speed to 1,000 MPH, and they would just slowly descend without heating up. If the earth is rotating, why don't they do that? BECAUSE THE EARTH IS NOT MOVING, and that is why they will burn up if going to fast in any direction... east, or west.

The launch point does not move relative to Earth as the land is not moving itself. This does not mean the Earth is stationar but that the gravity of the Earth is stronger than it's movement. Likewise for the moon as a craft is in caught in the gravity of the Moon, and Earth, thus movement is not strong enough to overcome gravity. It is called planetocentric coordinate systems not geocentric. There is also Earth-centered Inertial systems. When a craft moves beyond the gravity well in which gravity is not strong enough to overcome movement the heliocentric model is used, heliocentric barycenter system. There is also Geophysical Coordinate Transformations. Sadly you do not understand what you are talking about so take the names of these system at face value but do not understand why such systems are used.

The moon is tidally locked to Earth. We only see one side. This is not the same as the moon orbit which is slower than the rotation of the Earth. Hence why one can see the moon during daylight. It is not seeing the dark side, it is the same side just seen during the day. The "dark side" is not an absences of sun light on the surface but that humans were not capable of seeing the other side until we developed craft which we could place on the other side . It really should be called the far side not dark side.

It seems like a general education you are talking about is not one you have. I figured this out in highschool and it requires no PhD to do so. An alternative is your standards for a general education are far lower than academic standard. In my view your idea is a lack of a general education not evidence of a general education.

 

[Shad]

And it was foretold by the prophet that Muslims will be weak near the last days and that will be due to their leaders, but if you would like to know what Islam did then you should read the Arab history on the day of ignorance till they reached Spain and convey civilization and science to Europe and i know you won't be happy in doing so because the golden history of Islam will disturb your mood.

That is not much of a prophecy. Either Muslims will succeed or they will not. It is a 50/50 bet which is well within random chance. Let me spin some "prophecy". IS will be destroyed. America will loses it economic superpower status. An American NHL team will win the Stanley Cup. It is not hard to predict when you hedge your bets between two outcomes.

Why would communication of natural philosophy, science at the time, from Muslims bug me? Islam didn't provide any of the work itself, it provided no new data, no new methods, nothing really but inspiration. Inspiration which any religion can provide, heck people do not need religion to be inspired. Muslims, Christians, "Pagans", Buddhist, etc, have contributed in such a manner. Science is not owned by a religion, it is a human endeavor. Beside Spain already have a civilization called the Visagoth, before this was Rome. Both are civilizations. Unless you are defining a civilization strictly through an Islamic lens which is fallacious.