The movement of the earth in Qur'an

[Shad]

I think the POV is very clear. It is also in line with the Bible. To those who can not understand the POV, that is explained also in the scriptures...God says, "I will blind they eye of the un-believer." That means those who do not believe, will never understand scripture, and has proven true over, and over.

Thus I can not be held responsible for my lack of belief as God has blinded me to it. Thus judging me on the basis of belief/lack of is unjust and immoral. Thanks for providing evidence God is immoral when someone does not accept the authority of 2-3 millennia worth of Chinese Whispers or subjective "experiences".

 

[Aquitaine]

You follow science(sic), and I'll follow what you hope is religious mythology...and we will see what side of the pond the duck lays her eggs. There is going to be only two lines standing before God; "Those who believe, and those messing their pants."

Pfft, whatever.
Next time you're at the hospital and require medical assistance, please ask for a Priest to pray for you instead of a Doctor - see how far that gets you.

Also, you better be confident you picked the "correct" religion, because if "God" shows up and you made the wrong choice you'll be messing your pants. . . . . there are an awful lot of religions out there after all.

 

[Domenic]

The launch point does not move relative to Earth as the land is not moving itself. This does not mean the Earth is stationar but that the gravity of the Earth is stronger than it's movement. Likewise for the moon as a craft is in caught in the gravity of the Moon, and Earth, thus movement is not strong enough to overcome gravity. It is called planetocentric coordinate systems not geocentric. There is also Earth-centered Inertial systems. When a craft moves beyond the gravity well in which gravity is not strong enough to overcome movement the heliocentric model is used, heliocentric barycenter system. There is also Geophysical Coordinate Transformations. Sadly you do not understand what you are talking about so take the names of these system at face value but do not understand why such systems are used.

The moon is tidally locked to Earth. We only see one side. This is not the same as the moon orbit which is slower than the rotation of the Earth. Hence why one can see the moon during daylight. It is not seeing the dark side, it is the same side just seen during the day. The "dark side" is not an absences of sun light on the surface but that humans were not capable of seeing the other side until we developed craft which we could place on the other side . It really should be called the far side not dark side.

It seems like a general education you are talking about is not one you have. I figured this out in highschool and it requires no PhD to do so. An alternative is your standards for a general education are far lower than academic standard. In my view your idea is a lack of a general education not evidence of a general education.[/QUOTE]


I’m a retired Naval Architect. (High speed ship designer.) I teach algebra to college students who somehow graduated high school without learning the subject. Your theories on the movement/ none movement of earth have been debated for centuries. I assume, you like many others believe all text books give only true facts. There are many text books that should be burned. Evaluation is a theory, yet the text books present it as fact.
As an engineer let me give you one simple fact about what moves, and what does no move in our universe. To date there is no method known to determine if an object in solar system is moving, or stationary. Any such claims are theory, and are not fact.

You appear to have a stand that those who do not agree with you have a low education. It is an educated person who understands, “The more I learn, the less I know.”

 

[Domenic]

Pfft, whatever.
Next time you're at the hospital and require medical assistance, please ask for a Priest to pray for you instead of a Doctor - see how far that gets you.

Also, you better be confident you picked the "correct" religion, because if "God" shows up and you made the wrong choice you'll be messing your pants. . . . . there are an awful lot of religions out there after all.

I see you are one of those who assume, to assume...I am part of no religion. I believe all religions false. I do believe in God, and the scrolls. I never said medical assistance was bad. I have, and would take it when needed...along with prayer...and I don't need a man who calls himself a priest to help me in that area.
If you have had a bad experience with religion, I understand you post. religions are designed to turn people away from God.

 

[Shad]

Hilarious, basis observations using a telescope can show planetary movement. The more observations, the more data showing moments. I doubt you have any education of that sorts otherwise you would of know this. Especially when the navy uses these systems for aircraft.

I hold a standard that when people spout nonsense have no education. Especially when people like to play word games with "theory". You could have an education is architecture but this does not mean you understand anything outside this scope.

 

[Domenic]

Hilarious, basis observations using a telescope can show planetary movement. The more observations, the more data showing moments. I doubt you have any education of that sorts otherwise you would of know this. Especially when the navy uses these systems for aircraft.

I hold a standard that when people spout nonsense have no education. Especially when people like to play word games with "theory". You could have an education is architecture but this does not mean you understand anything outside this scope.

It seems your reading skills are not average. If you read my comment again, I am talking only about our solar system...that does not take in the whole universe..
Kids in grade school know the difference between solar system, and universe. If your education went beyond high school, you would know the term Naval Architect. is the designing of ships, and has nothing to do with the Navy, or aircraft. Perhaps you should confine yourself to talking to kids your own age.

 

[gnostic]

Why don't you see the earth and heavens in the verse?
When someone say: " I saw Tom, Alex, Michael, Rous, Albert and Mary. Each of them was healthy ", you find from this statement that ' each reference is to Michael, Rous, Albert and Mary 'and not to Tom and Alex ?
Why you ignore heavens(Alex) and the earth(Michael) which are in verse sentence?
He created the heavens and the earth with Truth, and He causes the night to flow into the day, and causes the day to flow into the night. He has subjugated the sun and the moon (for humans). All of them(heavens, the Earth, the sun and the moon) are running

Maybe they are in the same verse, with the creation of the earth and sky (heaven), but what it say after, seemed to a separate sentence to the course of the Sun and Moon:

Sahih International
He created the heavens and earth in truth. He wraps the night over the day and wraps the day over the night and has subjected the sun and the moon, each running [its course] for a specified term. Unquestionably, He is the Exalted in Might, the Perpetual Forgiver.

Muhsin Khan
He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving.

Pickthall
He hath created the heavens and the earth with truth. He maketh night to succeed day, and He maketh day to succeed night, and He constraineth the sun and the moon to give service, each running on for an appointed term. Is not He the Mighty, the Forgiver?

Yusuf Ali
He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?

Shakir
He has created the heavens and the earth with the truth; He makes the night cover the day and makes the day overtake the night, and He has made the sun and the moon subservient; each one runs on to an assigned term; now surely He is the Mighty, the great Forgiver.

Dr. Ghali
He created the heaven and the earth with the Truth; He rolls the night over the daytime, and He rolls the daytime over the night, and He has subjected the sun and the moon, each of them running to a stated term. Verily He is The Ever-Mighty, The Superb Forgiver.

But it is the Sun and Moon that are related to day and night, with them sun being the LIGHT for day and the Moon being LIGHT for night.

And the part of the verse about "each" and "all" that you have argued so pointlessly and interpreted so excessively has nothing to do with heliocentric, but that they both traverse the sky, as well as RISE and SET at their appointed times.

The Qur'an know nothing of orbits of the Earth around the Sun, or the rotation of the Earth.

The part about the Sun and Moon "following their course" merely stating a person's view when tracking the Sun and Moon motion across the sky. While the duration between the sunrise and sunset varied, depending on the time of the year, the Earth's tilt, and the position of the Earth's orbit around the Sun, the moon rises and set at precisely 12 hours, give or take a minute or two.

The author didn't know the Earth actually ROTATE on its axis, because the author didn't understand this, and never mention anywhere in the Qur'an that the Earth "rotate", "spin" or "turn".

The author didn't know anything about "orbit".

This verse actually show the author believe that the Earth is fixed, while the Sun and Moon move about the sky, rising and setting, that give a human perspective standing, while looking at the sky. A perspective that of geocentric motion, which is motion of the Sun and Moon around the Earth.

While the Moon do actually orbit around the earth, the Qur'an is wrong about Sun motion around the Earth.

And lastly nothing in the verse give any indication of the author had any notion of the heliocentric motions of other planetary bodies. Nowhere was any planet mentioned other than the sun and moon (stars are omitted too in this verse) when mentioning the courses and appointed times. I don't think the author was ever aware about planets, and most likely thought they were stars.

 

[mojtaba]

Maybe they are in the same verse, with the creation of the earth and sky (heaven), but what it say after, seemed to a separate sentence to the course of the Sun and Moon:



But it is the Sun and Moon that are related to day and night, with them sun being the LIGHT for day and the Moon being LIGHT for night.

And the part of the verse about "each" and "all" that you have argued so pointlessly and interpreted so excessively has nothing to do with heliocentric, but that they both traverse the sky, as well as RISE and SET at their appointed times.

The Qur'an know nothing of orbits of the Earth around the Sun, or the rotation of the Earth.

The part about the Sun and Moon "following their course" merely stating a person's view when tracking the Sun and Moon motion across the sky. While the duration between the sunrise and sunset varied, depending on the time of the year, the Earth's tilt, and the position of the Earth's orbit around the Sun, the moon rises and set at precisely 12 hours, give or take a minute or two.

The author didn't know the Earth actually ROTATE on its axis, because the author didn't understand this, and never mention anywhere in the Qur'an that the Earth "rotate", "spin" or "turn".

The author didn't know anything about "orbit".

This verse actually show the author believe that the Earth is fixed, while the Sun and Moon move about the sky, rising and setting, that give a human perspective standing, while looking at the sky. A perspective that of geocentric motion, which is motion of the Sun and Moon around the Earth.

While the Moon do actually orbit around the earth, the Qur'an is wrong about Sun motion around the Earth.

And lastly nothing in the verse give any indication of the author had any notion of the heliocentric motions of other planetary bodies. Nowhere was any planet mentioned other than the sun and moon (stars are omitted too in this verse) when mentioning the courses and appointed times. I don't think the author was ever aware about planets, and most likely thought they were stars.

Yes. This verse is not about heliocentricity or rotation of the earth around its own axis .
Earth and Sun and Moon and all other heavenly bodies are moving in space since the formation of them after big bang until apocalypse. It is said in Quran that : "Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?" 21:30 Saheeh International.
and " And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander. "51:47 Saheeh International.

These two verses say that heavens and the earth were a single thing and then they are seprated from each other and also heaven are expanding.
The earth has three movements 1. rotation around its own axis, 2. rotation around the sun, 3.and finaly movement with the sun and other solar planets in the expanding space.
The runing of the earth and heavens and the sun and the moon in 39:5 is about the third movement of the earth until apocalypse.

 

[FearGod]

Pfft, whatever.
Next time you're at the hospital and require medical assistance, please ask for a Priest to pray for you instead of a Doctor - see how far that gets you.

Also, you better be confident you picked the "correct" religion, because if "God" shows up and you made the wrong choice you'll be messing your pants. . . . . there are an awful lot of religions out there after all.

You don't need a priest or a cleric to pray for you, this should be between the person and God, many clerics are more evil than many atheists and many atheists are more religious than many clerics and that depends on ethics and morals.

I guess that you know that muslims have invented the modern surgery instruments and have conducted a heavy studies on medicine and opened hospitals for intensive care for the patients.

One real story of how one atheist pray to God in the time of need which guided him to Islam and i think that person was a good person before being a muslim otherwise God will never guide him to the truth, like someone helping you to pass the exam if he loves you.

 

[Shad]

It seems your reading skills are not average. If you read my comment again, I am talking only about our solar system...that does not take in the whole universe..
Kids in grade school know the difference between solar system, and universe. If your education went beyond high school, you would know the term Naval Architect. is the designing of ships, and has nothing to do with the Navy, or aircraft. Perhaps you should confine yourself to talking to kids your own age.

I never mentioned the universe. The systems I mentioned are used for the solar system, are in fact based on basic telescope observations an amateur telescope can produce. These systems are used by the Navy as well with it's satiates and aircraft, namely the planetcentric system. I was pointing out your own lack of knowledge of these systems. Your comment just reinforces this view since you assumed well beyond what I said and really had no clue what I was talking about. If you did you would of not mistaken my comment as that about the universe as each one is used for launching and maintain the orbits ofpractical craft used in solar system and craft in Earth orbit. Perhaps you should talk about subjects you actually are familiar with like ship design. You obviously are clueless when it comes to a great deal outside your limited field. Perhaps you should limit your own conversations rather than displaying your ignorance publicly.

 

[FearGod]

That is not much of a prophecy. Either Muslims will succeed or they will not. It is a 50/50 bet which is well within random chance. Let me spin some "prophecy". IS will be destroyed. America will loses it economic superpower status. An American NHL team will win the Stanley Cup. It is not hard to predict when you hedge your bets between two outcomes.

Prophecy isn't that stupid similar to the way that you did.

Can you prophecy that the Americans will be expelled from their lands and will scatter all over the world and then near the end times will return back to America and be the leading force, of course you won't make such prophecy because it looks crazy and won't goes that way, but the quran said and confirmed that the jews will be scattered all over the world and at the end times they will be back to Palestine with power, you see it as a coincidence , the same way that your origin were related to monkeys due to the stupid theory of coincidences and chances.

Why would communication of natural philosophy, science at the time, from Muslims bug me? Islam didn't provide any of the work itself, it provided no new data, no new methods, nothing really but inspiration. Inspiration which any religion can provide, heck people do not need religion to be inspired. Muslims, Christians, "Pagans", Buddhist, etc, have contributed in such a manner. Science is not owned by a religion, it is a human endeavor. Beside Spain already have a civilization called the Visagoth, before this was Rome. Both are civilizations. Unless you are defining a civilization strictly through an Islamic lens which is fallacious.

So you agree now that religion has nothing to do with the lack of scientific advancement or for making more advancement on it.

 

[Shad]

Yes. This verse is not about heliocentricity or rotation of the earth around its own axis .
Earth and Sun and Moon and all other heavenly bodies are moving in space since the formation of them after big bang until apocalypse. It is said in Quran that : "Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?" 21:30 Saheeh International.
and " And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander. "51:47 Saheeh International.

These two verses say that heavens and the earth were a single thing and then they are seprated from each other and also heaven are expanding.
The earth has three movements 1. rotation around its own axis, 2. rotation around the sun, 3.and finaly movement with the sun and other solar planets in the expanding space.
The runing of the earth and heavens and the sun and the moon in 39:5 is about the third movement of the earth until apocalypse.

The Earth is still part of the universe, sad to see you do not understand ideas you are retrofitting into your religion. The expanding verse is only expanding post 1930, ad hoc rationalization. 39:5 is far more geocentric than anything else since it treats day and night separately from the actually objects and phenomena that cause this cycle.

Here is another set of creation myths with the same joined/separate theme. Most which predate Islam by century

Chinese Creation Myths - Crystalinks

 

[FearGod]

Yup which means post hoc rationalization. Translation were changed to match science. This is fallacious. I said after 1930 not right at 1930.

Post hoc - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Rationalization (making excuses) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which means that your claim is a stupid one.

 

[Shad]

Prophecy isn't that stupid similar to the way that you did.

Can you prophecy that the Americans will be expelled from their lands and will scatter all over the world and then near the end times will return back to America and be the leading force, of course you won't make such prophecy because it looks crazy and won't goes that way, but the quran said and confirmed that the jews will be scattered all over the world and at the end times they will be back to Palestine with power, you see it as a coincidence , the same way that your origin were related to monkeys due to the stupid theory of coincidences and chances.

You example was that stupid. It provides no date and is based on two result, either Muslims will succeed or fail. That is within random chance or a guess. I provided one example which has a date namely the hockey example as the championship is only played at a certain time of year.

Your example is flawed as Jews were already scattered for centuries before Mo was born. Repeating historic information is not a prophecy. The Bible has the same return ideology. Thus Mo is repeating factual history hundred of years after it happen and repeating parts of the Bible which had been around for centuries as well. You standard of prophecy is so low you think statements made post hoc are prophetic. You lack of knowledge of history and the Bible show your idea of prophecy is based on ignorance more than anything else.

So you agree now that religion has nothing to do with the lack of scientific advancement or for making more advancement on it.

Religions do not, followers do.

 

[Shad]

Which means that your claim is a stupid one.

Not really as I provided translation before 1930 and ones after. When a verse is changed in such a way after knowledge is made public this shows post hoc rationalization. Previous translations do not state it is an ongoing process yet after the model was published suddenly translations do. This is exactly the fallacies my links details. There are also other issues such as you take the word for Heaven and Sky to translate it as universe. Thus again showing how you change the meaning of words to fit science in order to provide an ad hoc rescue of your faith

 

[FearGod]

Actually you provided a link showing it was rejected over and over again. The only person that may have looked it has no work to prove it. So you have shown nothing as you didn't read what you link. A number of the examples heard of the model and rejected it. Read your own source again. Do you want me to quote your link here and walk you through it piece by piece son? Since you seem to be incapable of reading it.

Tell us then how you prove it.

Show me a real video showing earth revolving around the sun similar to the drawings, you only know how to read but never know how to think.
I think it's kind of stupidity as to read without deep thinking.

Nevermind I will quote it later and walk your through it piece by piece. I will be back later today to do so.

You're welcome anytime and i'll be glad to prove you wrong and liar as usual.
waiting you तुम्हारा इंतज़ार है

 

[Shad]

Tell us then how you prove it.

Umm read what you link, its in your source.

Show me a real video showing earth revolving around the sun similar to the drawings, you only know how to read but never know how to think.
I think it's kind of stupidity as to read without deep thinking.

Why do I need to post such a video? Your idea of deep think is to use fallacious arguments. You use such a term as a cover as if you ignorant arguments are deep thought when it is just standard nonsense found all over the internet. You are merely parroting apologists and think this is "deep thinking".

What drawings? You mean drawing made after Copernicus of the heliocentric model?

You're welcome anytime and i'll be glad to prove you wrong and liar as usual.
waiting you तुम्हारा इंतज़ार है

Say that when you are capable of understanding the difference between "all" and "each" Say that when you read your own sources before linking said sources. I see no rebuttal, just whining and sophistry as an ad hoc rescue defense..

 

[FearGod]

You example was that stupid. It provides no date and is based on two result, either Muslims will succeed or fail. That is within random chance or a guess. I provided one example which has a date namely the hockey example as the championship is only played at a certain time of year.

Your example is flawed as Jews were already scattered for centuries before Mo was born. Repeating historic information is not a prophecy. The Bible has the same return ideology. Thus Mo is repeating factual history hundred of years after it happen and repeating parts of the Bible which had been around for centuries as well. You standard of prophecy is so low you think statements made post hoc are prophetic. You lack of knowledge of history and the Bible show your idea of prophecy is based on ignorance more than anything else.

I didn't say that the bible didn't mention the same prophecy and which confirm it to be a serious issue and not kidding and isn't similar to the stupid example that you offer, the one you made i may call it a stupid prophecy or a foolish one.

Religions do not, followers do.

Not, but humans do regardless of religion, you can speak nonsense and bla..bla..bla, without trying to even think what you write.

 

[Shad]

I didn't say that the bible didn't mention the same prophecy and which confirm it to be a serious issue and not kidding and isn't similar to the stupid example that you offer, the one you made i may call it a stupid prophecy or a foolish one.

What you do not understand is the fact that repeating ideas and history already known is not a prophecy. No more than if I were to post Einsteins theory of General Relativity after the fact is a prophecy. You provides "prophesies" which were beyond stupid since you were ignorant of the prior "prophecy" and history. The only serious issue in this is that of plagiarism of Mo

Here is another "prophecy" Germany will lose world war 1. I must be a prophet by repeating known history.

Not, but humans do regardless of religion, you can speak nonsense and bla..bla..bla, without trying to even think what you write.

Yes which is exactly what I said. Having problems with reading comprehension again?

 

[FearGod]

Umm read what you link, its in your source.

You should think while you read, coffee can help you.

Why do I need to post such a video? Your idea of deep think is to use fallacious arguments. You use such a term as a cover as if you ignorant arguments are deep thought when it is just standard nonsense found all over the internet. You are merely parroting apologists and think this is "deep thinking".

What drawings? You mean drawing made after Copernicus of the heliocentric model?

I asked you one simple question, so don't run away as cowards do

Show me a real video that proves earth is evolving around the sun, let us see what they did see, i think camera can do the job.
Don't say bla..bla..bla, just bring the evidence or accept that you don't have it.

Say that when you are capable of understanding the difference between "all" and "each" Say that when you read your own sources before linking said sources. I see no rebuttal, just whining and sophistry as an ad hoc rescue defense..

Do you know anything other than memorizing what you read such as the philosophical terms of fallacies, you have repeated it a hundred times similar to a child happy for memorizing his lesson and repeating it again and once again.