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The movement of the earth in Qur'an

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
What you do not understand is the fact that repeating ideas and history already known is not a prophecy. No more than if I were to post Einsteins theory of General Relativity after the fact is a prophecy. You provides "prophesies" which were beyond stupid since you were ignorant of the prior "prophecy" and history. The only serious issue in this is that of plagiarism of Mo

Here is another "prophecy" Germany will lose world war 1. I must be a prophet by repeating known history.

You offered again one other stupid example for Germany.

How you think that the Jews were known to be scattered all over the world in the era of the bible and the quran, i think they were living in Palestine and the middle east as Arabs do.

Bring your historical evidence than bla..bla..bla, and then how it's normal to prophecy that they'll return from all over the world to Palestine and not to any where else, i don't blame you, you only read, so i can't help you to understand, a hard job.

Yes which is exactly what I said. Having problems with reading comprehension again?

You don't even know what you write, science has nothing to do with religion or the followers of one religion, it's a human thing regardless of religion and followers, IOW one can be a scientist and follow no religion, did you see the difference between reading and deep thinking.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
You should think while you read, coffee can help you.

Reading your own sources helps as well. I advise you to do so.



I asked you one simple question, so don't run away as cowards do

I asked why I need to provide such a video? For what purpose? Running away would not involve asking such a question.

Show me a real video that proves earth is evolving around the sun, let us see what they did see, i think camera can do the job.
Don't say bla..bla..bla, just bring the evidence or accept that you don't have it.

Here is a selection of objects you can look up on NASA to see each course which is using the heliocentric model

Heliocentric Trajectories for Selected Spacecraft,Planets, and Comets

Do you know anything other than memorizing what you read such as the philosophical terms of fallacies, you have repeated it a hundred times similar to a child happy for memorizing his lesson and repeating it again and once again.

Pointing out fallacious reasoning is to show faulty thinking. It is not my problem you display such thinking nor should I refrain from pointing out your errors because you are unable to cope. Perhaps you could post arguments which do not contain fallacious thinking thus saving me the trouble. Enroll in a philosophy class as it will teach your how to form proper arguments.
 
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Shad

Veteran Member
You offered again one other stupid example for Germany.

Yes it is to mirror Mo's prophecy of an event that happen over 5 centuries before he was born. I mentioned an event that occurred a few decades ago. Here is another one. England will lose the Hundred Years War.

How you think that the Jews were known to be scattered all over the world in the era of the bible and the quran, i think they were living in Palestine and the middle east as Arabs do.

There were Roman, Jewish and Christian sources. One which covers both Roman and Jew is Josephus. Read his work on the diaspora.

Bring your historical evidence than bla..bla..bla, and then how it's normal to prophecy that they'll return from all over the world to Palestine and not to any where else, i don't blame you, you only read, so i can't help you to understand, a hard job.

Read the Bible, read the source above. However you seem to be reluctant to read anything that contradicts your views.

You don't even know what you write, science has nothing to do with religion or the followers of one religion, it's a human thing regardless of religion and followers, IOW one can be a scientist and follow no religion, did you see the difference between reading and deep thinking.

This is a hilarious comment coming from the very person claims the Quran, which is a text of a religion, contains scientific knowledge. You already set the tone by suggesting one contains information developed by the other. I take the postion that such a view is post hoc rationalization and basic inspiration. Nothing of scientific value is found in a religion that is not post hoc.

Your comments have been reduced to moving the goal posts and shifting the burden of proof. Both are fallacious. You failed in making logical arguments now attempt to recover by demanding evidence from me for subjects which you already accepted as fact such as the heliocentric model. Amazing sophistry you have there.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Reading your own sources helps as well. I advise you to do so.

And i advice you to think while reading.

I asked why I need to provide such a video? For what purpose? Running away would not involve asking such a question.

To prove that the heliocentric model is the right one, or aren't you sure now of the evidence.

Here is a selection of objects you can look up on NASA to see each course which is using the heliocentric model

Heliocentric Trajectories for Selected Spacecraft,Planets, and Comets

That link proves to me that you only know how to read, would you please explain to me how the data in the link proves which evolve around which.


Pointing out fallacious reasons is to show faulty thinking. It is not my problem you display such thinking nor should I refrain from pointing out your errors. Perhaps you could post arguments which do not contain fallacious thinking thus saying me the trouble. Enroll in a philosophy class as it will teach your how to form proper arguments.

I don't like philosophy and i'll never do, reading philosophy will let you one day walking without skivvies.

10 Craziest Things Done By Philosophers - Listverse
 

Shad

Veteran Member
And i advice you to think while reading.

I do hence why I can point out your fallacious reasoning while you are oblivious to it.



To prove that the heliocentric model is the right one, or aren't you sure now of the evidence.

Look at the link which provides trajectory data for objects which only works under the heliocentric model



That link proves to me that you only know how to read, would you please explain to me how the data in the link proves which evolve around which.

You asked for a video. Instead I provided data of multiple objects which use the model. If you can not understand what is contained in the link I advice you to enroll in a course such as basic astronomy. The information is self-explanatory, if this is beyond your grasp this is not my problem.




I don't like philosophy and i'll never do, reading philosophy will let you one day walking without skivvies.

10 Craziest Things Done By Philosophers - Listverse

Thus you dismiss logic, its method of argumentation and rational thought. I likewise could link a list of crazy things the religious have done. However such a point is fallacious as you are taking a few examples and turn it into a generalization. It would be the equivalent of mentioning 10 terrorists that are Muslim then claiming all Muslim are terrorists. One thing you are missing from your list is that these ideas and acts have been refuted by other philosophers. Also some acts within the list have nothing to do with philosophical arguments. You are using the list as a form of ad hominem attacks rather than attacking the argument itself. Again you are displaying your fallacious thinking.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Yes. This verse is not about heliocentricity or rotation of the earth around its own axis .
Earth and Sun and Moon and all other heavenly bodies are moving in space since the formation of them after big bang until apocalypse. It is said in Quran that : "Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?" 21:30 Saheeh International.
and " And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander. "51:47 Saheeh International.

These two verses say that heavens and the earth were a single thing and then they are seprated from each other and also heaven are expanding.
The earth has three movements 1. rotation around its own axis, 2. rotation around the sun, 3.and finaly movement with the sun and other solar planets in the expanding space.
The runing of the earth and heavens and the sun and the moon in 39:5 is about the third movement of the earth until apocalypse.

Sorry, but the Genesis 1:6-8 (bible) also have separation of heaven and earth on the 2nd day of creation, so the Qur'an (21:30) provide nothing new, unique or insightful.

But the separation of heaven and earth, in which heaven is nothing more than the visible sky. Heaven in the Qur'an has nothing to do with the universe. Other names for heaven or sky, are firmament, dome, expanse. The expanse or sky/heaven have nothing to do with the Big Bang or the expanding universe.

Genesis also say everything come from water, in Genesis 1:2. Again nothing new.

And beside the passages from Genesis, there are other polytheistic religions earlier than Genesis as well as the pitiful Qur'an, which separate heaven and earth, can be found in Egyptian and Sumerian-Babylonian sources, which had clearly influenced all Abrahamic religions, including Islam.

Islam is only perpetuating the same myths as the Egyptian and Babylonian myths, indirectly from Jewish and Christian texts, but clearly you are too ignorant to know the historical sources of your own religion. Muslims are blinded by their own religion to see the truth the origin of their own religion.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Yes it is to mirror Mo's prophecy of an event that happen over 5 centuries before he was born. I mentioned an event that occurred a few decades ago. Here is another one. England will lose the Hundred Years War.

But the jews didn't scatter all over the world then occupied Palestine and being powerful ever before our recent days.

There were Roman, Jewish and Christian sources. One which covers both Roman and Jew is Josephus. Read his work on the diaspora.

Which verses from the bible that confirms such events had already happened ?

Read the Bible, read the source above. However you seem to be reluctant to read anything that contradicts your views.

How stupid is this !
Do you want me to read the whole history and some books to agree that you were right, you aren't offering anything but just asking me to read some books.

Quote the statement from any article that supports your stupid argument so we can discuss it or do you want us to discuss a whole book or the whole bible.

This is a hilarious comment coming from the very person claims the Quran, which is a text of a religion, contains scientific knowledge. You already set the tone by suggesting one contains information developed by the other. I take the postion that such a view is post hoc rationalization and basic inspiration. Nothing of scientific value is found in a religion that is not post hoc.

Your comments have been reduced to moving the goal posts and shifting the burden of proof. Both are fallacious. You failed in making logical arguments now attempt to recover by demanding evidence from me for subjects which you already accepted as fact such as the heliocentric model. Amazing sophistry you have there.

Mr post hoc, multivitamins and some coffee will do the magic.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
I do hence why I can point out your fallacious reasoning while you are oblivious to it.

You only imagine that you do.


Look at the link which provides trajectory data for objects which only works under the heliocentric model.

Really, you should get the nobble prize for proving it, i thought it was a theoretical model, would you please explain how you proved it ?

You asked for a video. Instead I provided data of multiple objects which use the model. If you can not understand what is contained in the link I advice you to enroll in a course such as basic astronomy. The information is self-explanatory, if this is beyond your grasp this is not my problem.

Lol, yes data is more powerful than videos, but do you really understand what you're posting ? anyway waiting for your explanation how the data in your link proved the model to be a solid fact, i don't think that you even know what the meaning of model.

Thus you dismiss logic, its method of argumentation and rational thought. I likewise could link a list of crazy things the religious have done. However such a point is fallacious as you are taking a few examples and turn it into a generalization. It would be the equivalent of mentioning 10 terrorists that are Muslim then claiming all Muslim are terrorists. One thing you are missing from your list is that these ideas and acts have been refuted by other philosophers. Also some acts within the list have nothing to do with philosophical arguments. You are using the list as a form of ad hominem attacks rather than attacking the argument itself. Again you are displaying your fallacious thinking.

You can be better than any stupid philosopher, but you only follow what the other said because you lack the ability to think yourself and hence i asked you to be yourself and think with your own mind than just keep saying stupid words such as ad hoc as if my argument doesn't make sense, you're only fooling yourself and not the others, i mean the others who aren't easily fooled, it is ad hoc bonehead, it means trying to fool the laymen with a stupid argument.
BTW, don't look for ad hoc bonehead, this is my reply to your ad hoc rationalization which usually used by some stupid atheists who don't know how to debate but only keeping on fooling the others.
 
Not all religions, Islam doesn't but maybe Sufism and thats why i don't agree with it because it's mixed with philosophy.

I don't think you actually understand what you are saying. You might need to learn what philosophy is. If you did, you would understand that philosophy is a major part of every religion, especially Islam.
 

Aquitaine

Well-Known Member
I see you are one of those who assume, to assume...I am part of no religion. I believe all religions false. I do believe in God, and the scrolls. I never said medical assistance was bad. I have, and would take it when needed...along with prayer...and I don't need a man who calls himself a priest to help me in that area.
If you have had a bad experience with religion, I understand you post. religions are designed to turn people away from God.

Earlier in this thread you wrote:
You follow science(sic), and I'll follow what you hope is religious mythology...and we will see what side of the pond the duck lays her eggs.

To me, that sounds like you're prefering not to follow science - which is primarily responsible for all modern medical practices.
Also, which "Scrolls" are you refering to?
 

Aquitaine

Well-Known Member
I guess that you know that muslims have invented the modern surgery instruments and have conducted a heavy studies on medicine and opened hospitals for intensive care for the patients.
Lots of civilizations (both before and after the *Abbasid Caliphate/Ottoman Empire*) contributed to medicine. The reason for the "Golden Age of Islam" was because of empire: military/economic/cultural power.
That's what empires do: they consolidate power, amass resources, produce strong economies, expand education and as a result they end up contributing to the technological achievements of their time.

What you don't get medical technology from is via illiterate cave-dwellers apparently being visited by angels and commanded via a deity - that's just mythology.
No one would attribute the Greek's achievements to the likes of Zeus, would they?

* = Edited text, reason: addition of "Abbasid Caliphate".
 
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Shad

Veteran Member
You only imagine that you do.

Nope since I tend to tell you exactly what fallacy you have used. You have yet to provide one counter-argument against me pointing out your illogical arguments. You just whine about it


Really, you should get the nobble prize for proving it, i thought it was a theoretical model, would you please explain how you proved it ?

The model has been proven for centuries. However I do understand why you think someone should get credit for repeating an idea already known at the time since Mo did.



Lol, yes data is more powerful than videos, but do you really understand what you're posting ? anyway waiting for your explanation how the data in your link proved the model to be a solid fact, i don't think that you even know what the meaning of model.

Since we can track objects within the solar system using trajectory models based on the heliocentric model this is evidence. There is also the craft such a the Voyager mission which could of not reached it's mission plan if the heliocentric model was wrong. Voyager - The Interstellar Mission

You can read up on gravitational theory, aberration of light, stellar parallax, doppler effect. retrograde motion and phases of Venus.




You can be better than any stupid philosopher, but you only follow what the other said because you lack the ability to think yourself and hence i asked you to be yourself and think with your own mind than just keep saying stupid words such as ad hoc as if my argument doesn't make sense, you're only fooling yourself and not the others, i mean the others who aren't easily fooled, it is ad hoc bonehead, it means trying to fool the laymen with a stupid argument.
BTW, don't look for ad hoc bonehead, this is my reply to your ad hoc rationalization which usually used by some stupid atheists who don't know how to debate but only keeping on fooling the others.

Rejection of philosophy and logic is insane. Both teach how one to think and how to find irrational thinking patterns and arguments. Pointing out these errors are acceptable in any debt. Only those that are ignorant of philosophy and logic complain about it as if this recovers their illogical arguments. Maybe if you spent more time learning about these rather than repeating your Islamic indoctrination you would learn something. Sadly you reject anything which undermines your religious ideology.

But the jews didn't scatter all over the world then occupied Palestine and being powerful ever before our recent days.

Yes they did, read the source I mentioned. Up to one million were removed from Judea and Galilee. Their state was destroyed, It's people enslaved and deported, it's infrastructure absorbed by Rome and it's religion centers destroyed. There is also the Assyrian and Babylonia Diaspora between 700 and 500 BCE. These are historical facts

Which verses from the bible that confirms such events had already happened ?

Isaiah 11:11-12, Isaiah 66:7-8, Ezekiel 37:21-22, Zechariah 8:4-8, Ezekiel 36:34-35, Zephaniah 3:9 and Zechariah 12:1-3 which are all post hoc verses regarding the return after the Assyrian exile and Babylonian Captivity.

How stupid is this !
Do you want me to read the whole history and some books to agree that you were right, you aren't offering anything but just asking me to read some books.

You seem reluctant to read anything which challenges your bias. You unwillingness to read anything is not a defense, it is a sign of defeat. The whole book, The Jewish War, is about the rebellion and removal of the majority of the Jewish population.

Quote the statement from any article that supports your stupid argument so we can discuss it or do you want us to discuss a whole book or the whole bible.

Why quote anything when the whole book is about these events?

You can read book 5 of Histories by Tacitus. Read book 5, 6 and 7 of the Jewish war by Josephus. If you want someone to spoon fed your information look to someone else. I am not obligated to walk your through everything you refuse to read. You could read all the books I mentioned in an hour or two.

Mr post hoc, multivitamins and some coffee will do the magic.

An education would do you wonders
 
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Because you quote articles like that which don't understand what philosophy is either. The comments are a classic combination of ignorance and arrogance, as they are part of philosophy yet pretend to be something purer and superior. That article is simply (very low quality) philosophy.

And any website that quotes al-Ghazali but says there is no such thing as Islamic philosophy is either spellbindingly ignorant or engaging in major league trolling ;)

What does this mean btw? "Muhammad ''alaihi 's-salâm', who is the reason for the creation of all creatures" (from your site)

Is God not the reason for the creation of all creatures?
 
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FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Because you quote articles like that which don't understand what philosophy is either. The comments are a classic combination of ignorance and arrogance, as they are part of philosophy yet pretend to be something purer and superior. That article is simply (very low quality) philosophy.

What does this mean btw? "Muhammad ''alaihi 's-salâm', who is the reason for the creation of all creatures" (from your site)

Is God not the reason for the creation of all creatures?

Saying that God created the creation because of prophet Muhammed isn't philosophy but kind of stupidity.
 
Saying that God created the creation because of prophet Muhammed isn't philosophy but kind of stupidity.

So you agree that site is stupid, but you still linked to it to support your 'argument'?

Back to the main point though, have you grasped yet that Islamic philosophy is still philosophy even if it pretends that it isn't?
 
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