The movement of the earth in Qur'an

[FearGod]

From #3, the way I am reading this is that the entire universe is under the subjugation of the believers. Not so much for those who disbelieve. All they get is the eternal torture of the Hellfire (see point 2).

For denying the truth, what about it ? i don't see what's your point ?

 

[mojtaba]

From #3, the way I am reading this is that the entire universe is under the subjugation of the believers. Not so much for those who disbelieve. All they get is the eternal torture of the Hellfire (see point 2).

The correct reading is " the univrse has not created for nothing and created for a purpose,
and it is the imagination of the unbelievers that the universe has created by a chance, without any purpose ".
But the entire universe is subjugated for all humans. However, the believers believe that this creation has a purpose and unbelievers believe that there is not any purpose.

 

[mojtaba]

Sorry, but to me personally it sounds silly.

Could you say me why?

 

[psychoslice]

Could you say me why?

Well who is the he, a man in the sky ?, all this happened through billions of years through evolution, not some god in the sky.

 

[FearGod]

Well who is the he, a man in the sky ?, all this happened through billions of years through evolution, not some god in the sky.

Were we were fixed by the evolution as to die at specific age ?IOW why humans live 80 years a bit less or more ?

 

[psychoslice]

Were we were fixed by the evolution as to die at specific age ?IOW why humans live 80 years a bit less or more ?

Well all animals live to a certain prescribed year, so we as humans live to a certain year as well , its nothing to do with god, its the way it is.

 

[FearGod]

Well all animals live to a certain prescribed year, so we as humans live to a certain year as well , its nothing to do with god, its the way it is.

Yes i know, but how evolution have to fix it, why we are programmed to die at specific age according to your understanding of evolution.

 

[psychoslice]

Yes i know, but how evolution have to fix it, why we are programmed to die at specific age according to your understanding of evolution.

Again, its because that's the way it is , why is the sky blue, its the way it is, as with all else.

 

[YmirGF]

The correct reading is " the univrse has not created for nothing and created for a purpose,
and it is the imagination of the unbelievers that the universe has created by a chance, without any purpose ".
But the entire universe is subjugated for all humans. However, the believers believe that this creation has a purpose and unbelievers believe that there is not any purpose.

How terribly instructive.

 

[leibowde84]

1) 7:54 " Surely your Lord is God who created the heavens and the earth in six spans of time, then assumed all power. He covers up the day with night which comes chasing it fast; and the sun and moon and the stars are subject to His command. It is His to create and enjoin. Blessed be God, the Lord of all the worlds ".

2) 38: 27 " We have not created the heavens and the earth and all that lies between them, all for nothing. Only those who deny imagine so. So for the unbelievers there is woe from the fire."

3) The sun and moon are examples. 31:20 " Have you not seen that God has subjugated everything that is in the heavens and in the earth to you, and bestowed His favours, external and esoteric, in abundance on you? And yet there are men who contend about God without any knowledge or guidance or the Book enlightening ".

[/QUOTE]
Got it. I think there was some translation issues, but this helped a lot.

 

[Nietzsche]

Yes i know, but how evolution have to fix it, why we are programmed to die at specific age according to your understanding of evolution.

We don't die because of evolution, we die because the manner in which our cells replace themselves is faulty. That's what aging is, gradual cell damage. Also, living forever is actually bad for the survival of ones' species. You need members to die off eventually, so there's enough food for the younger ones.

 

[outhouse]

1) 7:54 " Surely your Lord is God who created the heavens and the earth in six spans of time, then assumed all power.

Sounds like mythology to me.

He covers up the day with night which comes chasing it fast; and the sun and moon and the stars are subject to His command.

Sounds like they think a deity moves light and dark around. More mythology?

Sounds like they think the sun is moving around the earth, instead of saying the earth moves, they say a god did it.

 

[gnostic]

39:5
He created the heavens and the earth with Truth, and He folds up the day over the night and folds up the night over the day. He has subjected the sun and the moon (for humans).
All of them are running until an appointed time. Lo, He is the Most Mighty, the Most Forgiving.

It is clear and doesn't need any interpretation.

Clear in what way?

Night and day don't "fold" over each other.

What doesn't folding have to do with day and night? How does that even work?

The term "folding" is an utterly useless description.

It only show either the author or the translator(s) (or both) to be utter idiot.

 

[morphesium]

39:5
He created the heavens and the earth with Truth, and He folds up the day over the night and folds up the night over the day. He has subjected the sun and the moon (for humans).
All of them are running until an appointed time. Lo, He is the Most Mighty, the Most Forgiving.

It is clear and doesn't need any interpretation.

Allah instructed to the Sun and the moon - "You both go around the earth, (do it for the purpose of serving humans)!"

"He folds up the day over the night and folds up the night over the day" - finally, we have the reason why we don't have night and day coexisting at the same time!

"All of them are running until an appointed time." - after that time, perhaps the sun and the moon would stop revolving around the earth.

"It is clear and doesn't need any interpretation" - well, this is 4th centuary science.

I hope now it is clear and doesn't need any interpretation

 

[YmirGF]

I hope now it is clear and doesn't need any interpretation

I guess it depends on how one wishes to fold it, eh?

 

[morphesium]

I guess it depends on how one wishes to fold it, eh?

yep. anyway, these things give us a glimpse of 4th century beliefs and/or superstitions.

 

[morphesium]

1) 7:54 " Surely your Lord is God who created the heavens and the earth in six spans of time, then assumed all power. He covers up the day with night which comes chasing it fast; and the sun and moon and the stars are subject to His command. It is His to create and enjoin. Blessed be God, the Lord of all the worlds ".

What or how much are these six spans of time - day?. Can you clearly define this time span, if not a day.

This verse doesn't mean that the Sun or the Moon are subjected to the Earth.
But means that He (God) subjugated the sun and the moon( by putting laws in universe* ), so we can benefit from them.

*41:12 " and He assigned to each heaven its commands ".

Allah created the stars and the planets (heavens) and then (ie, after some time) assigned power (gravity) to it.
Truth - gravity is the root cause; causing the interstellar clouds to aggregate which eventually formed stars and planets - not the other way.

it is the ones like you who are the true non-believers. True God doesent need the help of quran to talk to you. you were born with it - and that is why you have "moral intuitions" something which guides you to be or do the right thing and this is something which has the power to keep on polishing or refining oneself, making oneself better and better. And these things if they go contradicting the versus in your quran, you neglect them. atheist and non-believers are closer to true god than hard core Islamic believers.

 

[mojtaba]

Well who is the he, a man in the sky ?, all this happened through billions of years through evolution, not some god in the sky.

We don't believe that God is Who lives in the sky.
We believe that God hasn't any places, because He has created the space. Also, being in a place is one of the properties of the matter, and God is Who that has not body.
Holy Qur'an 42: 11 " there is nothing whatever like unto Him ".

Usul al-Kafi(one of the four major books of Shia Hadith), H 231, Ch. 6, h 2 : A man from Ma Wara' Nahr Balkh (Transoxania) came to abu al-Hassan al-Rida (a.s.)[ The eighth Shi'a Imam ] , and said, ‘I have a question for you. If your answer is the same as I already know, I will accept you as my Imam (leader with divine authority).’" Imam abul-Hassan (a.s.) replied, "Ask whatever you wish." The man said, "Tell me when did your Lord come into existence, how has He been and on what did He depend?"
Imam Abul-Hassan (a.s.), replied, "Allah, the Blessed, the Almighty, is the space maker of space, Who Himself is not subject to the effects of any space. He is the maker of How and Himself is not subject to How. He is Self-sufficient with His own power." The man stood up and kissed the head of the Imam (a.s.) and then said, "I testify that there is no God except Allah ... .

 

[mojtaba]

Sounds like they think a deity moves light and dark around. More mythology?
Sounds like they think the sun is moving around the earth, instead of saying the earth moves, they say a god did it.

Qur'an doesn't reject the rules governing the events and phenomena. But holy Qur'an says that God has created entire univers and put the commands that control it.
6: 38 " There is not a thing that moves on the earth, no bird that flies on its two wings, but has a community of its own like yours".
67: 19 " Do they not observe the birds above them, spreading their wings and folding them in? None can uphold them except (Allah) Most Gracious: Truly (Allah) Most Gracious: Truly it is He that watches over all things.
or:
16: 69 " There issues from within these [bees] a fluid of many hues(honey), wherein there is health for man".
26: 80 "And when I fall ill, (God) is the One who restores me to health".

 

[mojtaba]

Excuse me. The translation was not good.
Better translation:
He causes the night to flow into the day, and causes the day to flow into the night.