The New World Tranlsation of the Holy Scriptures

[Original Freak]

Doesn't anybody even find it odd that conversations like this exist when talking about a holy doctrine that is supposed to dictate the way in which we live our lives?

 

[James the Persian]

Doesn't anybody even find it odd that conversations like this exist when talking about a holy doctrine that is supposed to dictate the way in which we live our lives?

You see, that's the problem. You seem to be assuming that the position of the sola scripturalist is correct. I don't. The Church wrote the Scriptures, She was not founded on them. Therefore, it is quite possible to produce a translation of that contradicts Church teaching, even many of them, and for it to have no effect on the faith - that faith having existed prior to the Scriptures being written.

James

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

Doesn't anybody even find it odd that conversations like this exist when talking about a holy doctrine that is supposed to dictate the way in which we live our lives?

yes i do. i was messing with him. note the little face...

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

You see, that's the problem. You seem to be assuming that the position of the sola scripturalist is correct. I don't. The Church wrote the Scriptures, She was not founded on them. Therefore, it is quite possible to produce a translation of that contradicts Church teaching, even many of them, and for it to have no effect on the faith - that faith having existed prior to the Scriptures being written.

James

sorry james, 'sola scripturalist'? do i have to go get a dictionary?

 

[sysint]

I would agree with Deut that his quotation is much more elegant than the NWT rendering. NWT is not elegant , however I will echo the previous statement claim to accuracy. It is accurate in that instance.

 

[James the Persian]

sorry james, 'sola scripturalist'? do i have to go get a dictionary?

No. Sola scriptura is the Reformation idea of faith based on scripture alone and a sola scripturalist is one who follows said doctrine. It was unknown in any Church prior to the Reformation and is still not accepted by any of the Churches with valid Apostolic Succession - the Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic Church or the Oriental Orthodox Church - which basically means the vast majority of Christians now and throughout history.

James

 

[may]

now just to put a lighter note on this did you know that dung

In the Scriptures, often has figurative associations and to put an even lighter note how about this scripture

And a private place should be at your service outside the camp, and you must go out there. And a peg should be at your service along with your implements, and it must occur that when you squat outside, you must also dig a hole with it and turn and cover your excrement. For Jehovah your God is walking about within your camp to deliver you and to abandon your enemies to you; and your camp must prove to be holy, that he may see nothing indecent in you and certainly turn away from accompanying you..........ok then whats the peg for , is it to put on your nose or to burythe stuff .:biglaugh: Deut 23 12-14

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

No. Sola scriptura is the Reformation idea of faith based on scripture alone and a sola scripturalist is one who follows said doctrine. It was unknown in any Church prior to the Reformation and is still not accepted by any of the Churches with valid Apostolic Succession - the Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic Church or the Oriental Orthodox Church - which basically means the vast majority of Christians now and throughout history.

James

cheers!

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

I would agree with Deut that his quotation is much more elegant than the NWT rendering. NWT is not elegant , however I will echo the previous statement claim to accuracy. It is accurate in that instance.

well, perhaps not as elegant as others. i wouldn't say it's not elegant, fullstop. there are plenty of nice scriptures in the NWT, but at the end of the day, that's not the important thing. and again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

The Church wrote the Scriptures, She was not founded on them...

bit of a side point, but what do you mean? and which church, and if so, which scriptures?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So it's more a matter of personal taste rather than accuracy or message...

No. It's the belief that the earliest variants of Deuteronomy 32:8 stood closer to those found in the LXX, and that the NWT & Masoretic represent a doctrinally driven recension.

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

No. It's the belief that the earliest variants of Deuteronomy 32:8 stood closer to those found in the LXX, and that the NWT & Masoretic represent a doctrinally driven recension.

can i ask, which version of the bible do you use, or which is your favorite? and is there really such a big difference in doctrine between these versions of the verse?

KJV
8When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
NWT
8 When the Most High gave the nations an inheritance, When he parted the sons of Adam from one another, He proceeded to fix the boundary of the peoples With regard for the number of the sons of Israel.

I know that this is just between the KJV and the NWT but is there any real difference in the message of this verse?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I would agree with Deut that his quotation is much more elegant than the NWT rendering. NWT is not elegant , however I will echo the previous statement claim to accuracy. It is accurate in that instance.

Really? Let's see:

The maiden herself will actually become [note future tense] pregnant, and she is giving birth [note present tense] to a son, and ...​

such that the poor maiden is giving birth prior to becoming pregnant. On the other hand ...

27 tn Elsewhere the adjective hrh, when used predicatively, refers to a past pregnancy (from the narrator’s perspective, 1 Sam 4:19), to a present condition (Gen 16:11; 38:24; 2 Sam 11:5), and to a conception that is about to occur in the near future (Judg 13:5, 7). (There is some uncertainty about the interpretation of Judg 13:5, 7, however. See the notes to those verses.) In Isa 7:14 one could translate, “the young woman is pregnant.” In this case the woman is probably a member of the royal family. Another option, the one chosen in the translation above, takes the adjective in an imminent future sense, “the young woman is about to conceive.” In this case the woman could be a member of the royal family, or, more likely, the prophetess with whom Isaiah has sexual relations shortly after this (see 8:3).

- see bible.org: Isaiah 7:14 - note 27

Your claim to accuracy would be more credible were you to defend the use of the present tense.

 

[Aqualung]

What's funny is that many of the parts I said didn't harmonize were never proven to actually harmonize. Should I also get into my Jehovah is Jesus, but this doesn't mean that Jesus is the Father? No. Because I don't think anybody would adress my points, and, since I'm on vacation, I don't have my Bible, and very soon I won't have a computer.

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

Really? Let's see:

The maiden herself will actually become [note future tense] pregnant, and she is giving birth [note present tense] to a son, and ...​

such that the poor maiden is giving birth prior to becoming pregnant. On the other hand ...
Your claim to accuracy would be more credible were you to defend the use of the present tense.

or, or, it could be a messianic prophecy...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I know that this is just between the KJV and the NWT but is there any real difference in the message of this verse?

None at all.

As for your previous question, I have no doctrinal favorite, though I find both the Friedman and the Alter translations and commentaries to be insightful and, particularly in the case of Alter, oft times beautiful. I also refer to the Arts Scroll Tanach and the Ets Hayim Torah - both essentially Masoretic variants. If the verse is of particular import, I will cross reference with a number of online Bibles, including the NET Bible, the NKJV, the NWT, and the Septuagint.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

or, or, it could be a messianic prophecy...

I could, but it would be really, really stupid.

 

[sysint]

Interesting.

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

Interesting.

what is? our conversation, or the possibility of a messianic prophecy?

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

I could, but it would be really, really stupid.

well, according to the scriptures it was. Matthew 1:23 quotes Isaiah 7:14 in relation to Jesus. so i guess it really is a messianic prophecy...be it an apparently stupid one!