The only solution is to love all mankind

[Echogem222]

What about our common humanity be the foundation?

Not a reason to me. The way I see it, everyone with consciousness is an equal, meaning that animals, insects, aliens, etc. are all equals to me. However, just because we're all equals, doesn't mean that I suddenly have infinite energy to spend helping others, I need motivations, peace of mind, a healthy body, so many things just to exist as a force of love for all.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I agree that we could just aim for no demonisation but I think humanity can go beyond mediocrity and aim for much nobler heights such as love even if it appears too idealistic or utopian because I think we can do a lot better than just tolerating each other although that would be a great start.

 

[YoursTrue]

I suppose if one lives in a state of comfort and ease, oblivious of the suffering of millions in far off countries then yes it would be nonsense to such people. But I see my loved ones trapped in oppression and I see the suffering up close so I don’t feel it’s nonsense as it affects my family directly. And I don’t think it’s idealistic to teach Buddhists who once were renowned for their non violence to be educated to be non violent again.

Once Buddhists wouldn’t harm a fly, now they commit genocide against the Rohingya and the Burmese. So my wife and family and her family over in Burma living under oppression want to be free. But it’s all ‘nonsense’ to those unaffected.

You bring up interesting thoughts to consider.
To go into the inner picture, someone (a friend of mine who was a social worker) directed me to think about the biblical account of Cain and Abel. Because we were having a conversation and I asked her what she thought about mentally ill murderers. Few really have an answer for why they get that way.
Cain killed Abel in a fit of jealous rage. It's hard for me to imagine, but it also says that God warned Cain to watch his attitude before it happened. But he killed his brother anyway. The account is at Genesis chapter 4:

"In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground, 4and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering, 5but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell. 6The LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? 7If you do well, will you not be accepted?b And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is contrary to you, but you must rule over it.”
8Cain spoke to Abel his brother.d And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him."

So I'm assuming that Cain's emotions overcame his respect for life. This was right at the beginning of the human race.
There is a song from the musical South Pacific, it's title is "You've Got to be Carefully Taught." And that's about hate. Cain wasn't directly taught about hate, but clearly his emotions overcame his desire to let his brother live peacefully.
Thanks for expressing your thoughts on this subject.

 

[Echogem222]

I agree that we could just aim for no demonisation but I think humanity can go beyond mediocrity and aim for much nobler heights such as love even if it appears too idealistic or utopian because I think we can do a lot better than just tolerating each other although that would be a great start.

Are you responding to me or to someone else?

 

[loverofhumanity]

How do you teach someone to love unconditionally?

By example I think is the best way but it’s not like maths. We learn over time through experience what leads to peace and what leads to conflict.

 

[F1fan]

This thread is not about any religion

We know what your intetnion is. Do try to not pretend this isn't about your religion.

but about us all learning or being taught that the whole world is our nationality so to speak so that there are no grounds for demonising anyone on any grounds.

Most all people from first world nations already do, except those with mental instability. You still ignore the global trouble makers. You have no actual solution. Are you going to force Russia to follow your plan? putin stands in your way.

Doesn’t the Middle East need this urgently where we hear too often that we in the west are considered as Satan or infidels?

Religious people think they have the answer for the whole world.

What if they incorporated into their education system in all the Middle East to love all humanity and got rid of the infidel bit? What do you think would happen? Would we be more prone to peace or war?

Because we live in a competitive world. We humans all compete for resources, and there is no agreement to share. Even you said no handouts. So as long as you have a competitive world with many tribes there will be conflict if resources get too expensive or scarce. You can argue for world peace if you can guarantee people won't go without. But you already said no handouts.

 

[YoursTrue]

Not a reason to me. The way I see it, everyone with consciousness is an equal, meaning that animals, insects, aliens, etc. are all equals to me. However, just because we're all equals, doesn't mean that I suddenly have infinite energy to spend helping others, I need motivations, peace of mind, a healthy body, so many things just to exist as a force of love for all.

OK, you're prompting me to ask, "we're all equal?" I mean I don't mind killing a mosquito or flea.

 

[YoursTrue]

By example I think is the best way but it’s not like maths. We learn over time through experience what leads to peace and what leads to conflict.

By that time a lot of people will be dead or killed by others.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You bring up interesting thoughts to consider.
To go into the inner picture, someone (a friend of mine who was a social worker) directed me to think about the biblical account of Cain and Abel. Because we were having a conversation and I asked her what she thought about mentally ill murderers. Few really have an answer for why they get that way.
Cain killed Abel in a fit of jealous rage. It's hard for me to imagine, but it also says that God warned Cain to watch his attitude before it happened. But he killed his brother anyway. The account is at Genesis chapter 4:

"In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground, 4and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering, 5but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell. 6The LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? 7If you do well, will you not be accepted?b And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is contrary to you, but you must rule over it.”
8Cain spoke to Abel his brother.d And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him."

So I'm assuming that Cain's emotions overcame his respect for life. This was right at the beginning of the human race.
There is a song from the musical South Pacific, it's title is "You've Got to be Carefully Taught." And that's about hate. Cain wasn't directly taught about hate, but clearly his emotions overcame his desire to let his brother live peacefully.
Thanks for expressing your thoughts on this subject.

That was interesting what you said about emotions. I believe that crafty arms dealers/ politicians manipulate very emotional people to start wars. This is where a stable and reflective mind, which we have been given, needs to be used. To train the mind not to allow the emotions to get carried away but to decide rationally and in a reasonable manner carefully about the consequences of our deeds.

 

[Echogem222]

OK, you're prompting me to ask, "we're all equal?" I mean I don't mind killing a mosquito or flea.

There is nothing I understand about myself which is not equal to all other beings with consciousness. The reason why is because I see us as existing as souls, and I define the soul as simply existing as I don't believe we have free will. So, when someone is unconscious, that is when they are truly just themselves. Everything else (like the ego, memories, etc) is just personal baggage. The reason why I believe I have a soul is because I believe I have awareness of myself existing, just existing though, and I see that as separate from the functions of the body/mind, which is why I don't believe our bodies/minds are needed for us to go to an afterlife, because in an afterlife we could just be given new bodies/minds and we'd still be ourselves (our souls).

 

[loverofhumanity]

OK, you're prompting me to ask, "we're all equal?" I mean I don't mind killing a mosquito or flea.

That was just a figure of speech. But there are some who won’t kill a cockroach or a fly. I think that’s overkill. Pun not intended. No we are not all equal as far as capacity or qualifications go. But we all are entitled to be treated as equals. So we don’t exalt a doctor over a farmer. The farmer may need the doctor to save his life but the doctor too needs the farmer to keep him alive. Only difference is the doctor uses medicine and the farmer food.

 

[F1fan]

That was interesting what you said about emotions. I believe that crafty arms dealers/ politicians manipulate very emotional people to start wars.

And people learn that too. So what do you do as a "peace and love" society that has bad influences that are ruining your plans? Do you secretely kill them?

 

[Echogem222]

That was just a figure of speech. But there are some who won’t kill a cockroach or a fly. I think that’s overkill. Pun not intended. No we are not all equal as far as capacity or qualifications go. But we all are entitled to be treated as equals. So we don’t exalt a doctor over a farmer. The farmer may need the doctor to save his life but the doctor too needs the farmer to keep him alive. Only difference is the doctor uses medicine and the farmer food.

They were making a reply to me, so I think you're confused about "the figure of speech" thing.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There is nothing I understand about myself which is not equal to all other beings with consciousness. The reason why is because I see us as existing as souls, and I define the soul as simply existing as I don't believe we have free will. So, when someone is unconscious, that is when they are truly just themselves. Everything else (like the ego, memories, etc) is just personal baggage. The reason why I believe I have a soul is because I believe I have awareness of myself existing, just existing though, and I see that as separate from the functions of the body/mind, which is why I don't believe our bodies/minds are needed for us to go to an afterlife, because in an afterlife we could just be given new bodies/minds and we'd still be ourselves (our souls).

You make a lot of sense only I don’t know what you mean by us not having free will. Sure we have no choice in birth, death, old age and disease but don’t we have free will in moral choices?

 

[loverofhumanity]

And people learn that too. So what do you do as a "peace and love" society that has bad influences that are ruining your plans? Do you secretely kill them?

First consult and see if there’s any common ground.

 

[F1fan]

First consult and see if there’s any common ground.

What common ground would you have with Hitler? How would you stop him? Or would you allow him to rise to power and just stand there as a bystander whose message can't compete with Hitler's emotional appeal?

 

[Echogem222]

You make a lot of sense only I don’t know what you mean by us not having free will. Sure we have no choice in birth, death, old age and disease but don’t we have free will in moral choices?

To say we are free in our moral choices means that we always understand exactly why we make the choices that we do, that it's coming from us, not from our situation. But imagine if that were true, imagine if everyone on the freeway had the freedom to be a reckless driver, suddenly deciding to cause accidents because they decided to... yet that rarely happens. Why? Because people clearly don't have freedom when making moral choices. In the case of the rare times when people do that, we're able to figure out it was caused by something that wasn't them, like mental disorders, drugs, etc. Also, what do they have to gain by doing such things? Exactly, [gain], meaning that their situation affects their decisions. If you're one of those people who believe in a hell existing, why is there the need for a God to set such a place up? If we're truly free in our decisions, then threating us with hell shouldn't be able to affect us at all, because we have "free will". And sending us to such a place wouldn't change our minds in being the way that we are if we truly have free will.

But also, if free will were truly coming from myself, then I would understand I have free will in the same way I understand that I exist, yet I don't, so even if somehow we did have free will, it would be personal baggage, not truly us, not truly our responsibility, and therefore calling it free will wouldn't make any sense because it could be taken away from us, as it's not truly us, and if it's not truly us, then no one should judge us for something which is not us.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What common ground would you have with Hitler? How would you stop him? Or would you allow him to rise to power and just stand there as a bystander whose message can't compete with Hitler's emotional appeal?

We would be forced to defend ourselves if attacked. And bring him to justice.

 

[F1fan]

We would be forced to defend ourselves if attacked. And bring him to justice.

Finally a realistic reply. See, you are human afterall.

 

[loverofhumanity]

To say we are free in our moral choices means that we always understand exactly why we make the choices that we do, that it's coming from us, not from our situation. But imagine if that were true, imagine if everyone on the freeway had the freedom to be a reckless driver, suddenly deciding to cause accidents because they decided to... yet that rarely happens. Why? Because people clearly don't have freedom when making moral choices. In the case of the rare times when people do that, we're able to figure out it was caused by something that wasn't them, like mental disorders, drugs, etc. Also, what do they have to gain by doing such things? Exactly, [gain], meaning that their situation affects their decisions. If you're one of those people who believe in a hell existing, why is there the need for a God to set such a place up? If we're truly free in our decisions, then threating us with hell shouldn't be able to affect us at all, because we have "free will". And sending us to such a place wouldn't change our minds in being the way that we are if we truly have free will.

But also, if free will were truly coming from myself, then I would understand I have free will in the same way I understand that I exist, yet I don't, so even if somehow we did have free will, it would be personal baggage, not truly us, not truly our responsibility, and therefore calling it free will wouldn't make any sense because it could be taken away from us, as it's not truly us, and if it's not truly us, then no one should judge us for something which is not us.

Some good points. Then what about belief? Aren’t we free to choose? Free will in belief? Interested to hear your reasoning.