The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

[Porque77]

I dont think god's law can be changed

The prophets disagree with you. Look what the prophets say:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

"He says, therefore, the Lord: Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. For this reason, the Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

 

[Porque77]

You are really stuck on that aren't you. Why don't you focus on this instead:

Mat 5:21-22 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire."

Mat 5:44 “But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you...

Mat 19:17-19 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Rom 13:9-10 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Hello nazz. :clap ....... :yes: ....... What you say is true.

God is love and He want mercy.

 

[CMike]

You are aware what jesus spouted?

Luke 19:27

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."

 

[metis]

The law was changed, as say the prophets. The history and prophecies are something different. The law of the Old Testament is no longer valid because it was changed by the scribes:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

If that were to be true of all of the "O.T.", then why did Jesus and the apostles quote it so often?

What you seemingly don't realize is that there other books that were being written and that some were claiming they were divinely inspired, and they number roughly around 2000. Since the church chose to incorporate the Jewish canon pretty much intact, why would they do that if it were wrong? Why did they include the Law as we see it?

Sorry, but your entire scenario isn't at all logical and is refuted in your own scriptures.

 

[Sleeppy]

If that were to be true of all of the "O.T.", then why did Jesus and the apostles quote it so often?

What you seemingly don't realize is that there other books that were being written and that some were claiming they were divinely inspired, and they number roughly around 2000. Since the church chose to incorporate the Jewish canon pretty much intact, why would they do that if it were wrong? Why did they include the Law as we see it?

Sorry, but your entire scenario isn't at all logical and is refuted in your own scriptures.

It has logic. Logic functions in more than one direction, and may or may not be true. You both think logically, and display logic. How much is anyone's guess.


The Church incorporates quite a lot into its existence; this doesn't necessarily make everything they do truthful or even morally responsible. This isn't the case for any individual, nor is it the case for the Jews or Christians.

I can go to the library, pick up any book, read it, and determine (on average) whether I enjoyed the book. I can endorse the book. But to think my thoughts are identical to those in the book, is illogical at every angle.

 

[Porque77]

Since the church chose to incorporate the Jewish canon pretty much intact, why would they do that if it were wrong? Why did they include the Law as we see it?

The Catholic religion incorporated many laws that are not the Gospel. Then many other religions did the same.

In the actuality nobody knows the true commandments of God.

The true commandments of God are what Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel

 

[CMike]

The Catholic religion incorporated many laws that are not the Gospel. Then many other religions did the same.

In the actuality nobody knows the true commandments of God.

The true commandments of God are what Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel

The true commandments of G-D are the ones that G-D taught in the Torah.

 

[Porque77]

The true commandments of G-D are the ones that G-D taught in the Torah.

There is only one Torá, and this Torá is the Torá of the Gospel. And this is the true Torá that received Mosés. The "torá" of the Old Testament is other thing, because the God's Law was changed by scribes, as say the prophets:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

"He says, therefore, the Lord: Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. For this reason, the Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

 

[CMike]

You may remember this...

Luke 19:27

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."

The only Torah is the one given to the jews by G-D. At least the only one for jews.

 

[Porque77]

You may remember this...
Luke 19:27
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."

This teaching is for the kingdom of heaven. God is the King, and his servants, the angels will kill all demons.

But you don't may apply that law in this world of men, because the commandments that men should obey also were taught by Jesus Christ:

"Then Peter came and said: Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Till seven? Jesus said: I tell you, not seven times, but seventy times seven." (Matthew 18: 21-22)

"If you had known what this means, I want mercy and not sacrifice, you wouldn’t have condemned the innocent" (Matthew 12: 7)

The commandment of Jesus Christ for the men is this:

"And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill" (Matthew 19)

The only Torah is the one given to the jews by G-D. At least the only one for jews.

You are wrong, because the true God's Torah is the Torah of the Gospel. And the Gospel tells the men must preach to all peoples of the world, and that those who believe will be saved:

"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned". (Mark 16:15-16)

 

[CMike]

This teaching is for the kingdom of heaven. God is the King, and his servants, the angels will kill all demons.

But you don't may apply that law in this world of men, because the commandments that men should obey also were taught by Jesus Christ:

"Then Peter came and said: Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Till seven? Jesus said: I tell you, not seven times, but seventy times seven." (Matthew 18: 21-22)

"If you had known what this means, I want mercy and not sacrifice, you wouldn’t have condemned the innocent" (Matthew 12: 7)

The commandment of Jesus Christ for the men is this:

"And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill" (Matthew 19)

You are wrong, because the true God's Torah is the Torah of the Gospel. And the Gospel tells the men must preach to all peoples of the world, and that those who believe will be saved:

"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned". (Mark 16:15-16)

You believe in the commandments of a person.

I believe in the commandments of G-D.

That is the main difference.

 

[Porque77]

You believe in the commandments of a person.

I believe in the commandments of G-D.

That is the main difference.

Jesus Christ is God and his commandments are true commandments of God.

If you do not believe in the commandments of Jesus Christ, then you do not believe in the commandments of God.

The prophets tell us that God's law was changed by the scribes, so in the Old Testament there are many precepts of men. The prophets tell us this:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)
"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

"He says, therefore, the Lord: Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. For this reason, the Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

 

[RabbiO]

Jesus Christ is God and his commandments are true commandments of God.

If you do not believe in the commandments of Jesus Christ, then you do not believe in the commandments of God.

The prophets tell us that God's law was changed by the scribes, so in the Old Testament there are many precepts of men. The prophets tell us this:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)
"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)...........................

You're like a broken record, repeating the same verses over and over and over again.

At some point it might be interesting to count how many times you can quote the verse in Jeremiah without context and with no understanding of context.

Peter

 

[CMike]

Jesus Christ is God and his commandments are true commandments of God.

If you do not believe in the commandments of Jesus Christ, then you do not believe in the commandments of God.

The prophets tell us that God's law was changed by the scribes, so in the Old Testament there are many precepts of men. The prophets tell us this:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)
"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

"He says, therefore, the Lord: Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. For this reason, the Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

One of the commandments is to not worship an alien god.

Worshipping Jesus is worshipping an alien god.

 

[Sleeppy]

You believe in the commandments of a person.

I believe in the commandments of G-D.

That is the main difference.

Is this what Moses tells you?

 

[Tumah]

Is this what Moses tells you?

Technically, yes.

 

[Sleeppy]

Technically, yes.

Then this must be the same Moses who technically misrepresented Israelite enslavement, and Exodus from Egypt (even according to Jews here).

Technically, Jews and Christians (and Muslims) are all idolatrous.

 

[Tumah]

Then this must be the same Moses who technically misrepresented Israelite enslavement, and Exodus from Egypt (even according to Jews here).

Technically, Jews and Christians (and Muslims) are all idolatrous.

I don't know if its because I came in the last three posts of the conversation, but I have absolutely 0% idea of what you are talking about.

 

[Sleeppy]

I don't know if its because I came in the last three posts of the conversation, but I have absolutely 0% idea of what you are talking about.

I began the conversation with you. If you can't gain more than 0% understanding of a very small, grammatically accurate, English paragraph - there's not much I can do.

CMike made a distinction between Jesus and God, - but not Moses and God. He is a Jewish idolator. Instead of Moses, Christians place Jesus as their primary source of idolatry. For Muslims, it is primarily Mohammed.

 

[CMike]

Is this what Moses tells you?

That's what G-D told Moses.