The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

[Porque77]

Jesus can't abolish what G-D said. That within itself is a great insult to G-D.

Jesus did not abolish what God really said. What Jesus abolished of the Old Testament, is what God had not actually said, namely, the precepts of men, because Jesus did not come to abolish the true Law of God.

Jesus Christ tell us that the true Law of God is this:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12).

Therefore, what is really a great insult to God, is to contradict the words of Jesus Christ, who said that the God's Law is the Law that He taught us in the Gospel. What is a great insult to God, is to say that the law of God are the commandments of the Old Testament that Jesus Christ abolished, which are only really precepts of men, for that reason Jesus Christ abolished them.

 

[Tumah]

In other words, there is no son on David's throne, and the Levites no longer perform sacrifices, continually. Both statements could be (completely) true, but they aren't; they've been made useless.

No you said it the wrong way. There is no throne for David's son to sit on, nor a Temple for the Levites to perform sacrifices. But if we did have them and indeed when we will have them again, they will be manned by David's son and the Levites respectively. The treaty is not relevant today, but it is still in effect.

 

[CMike]

Jesus did not abolish what God really said. What Jesus abolished of the Old Testament, is what God had not actually said, namely, the precepts of men, because Jesus did not come to abolish the true Law of God.

Jesus Christ tell us that the true Law of God is this:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12).

Therefore, what is really a great insult to God, is to contradict the words of Jesus Christ, who said that the God's Law is the Law that He taught us in the Gospel. What is a great insult to God, is to say that the law of God are the commandments of the Old Testament that Jesus Christ abolished, which are only really precepts of men, for that reason Jesus Christ abolished them.

Jesus didn't abolish anything for the jews.

The Torah is from G-D, nothing can be abolished for the jews.

Jesus' religion is for christians not jews.

 

[metis]

Jesus did not abolish what God really said. What Jesus abolished of the Old Testament, is what God had not actually said, namely, the precepts of men, because Jesus did not come to abolish the true Law of God.

Jesus Christ tell us that the true Law of God is this:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12).

Therefore, what is really a great insult to God, is to contradict the words of Jesus Christ, who said that the God's Law is the Law that He taught us in the Gospel. What is a great insult to God, is to say that the law of God are the commandments of the Old Testament that Jesus Christ abolished, which are only really precepts of men, for that reason Jesus Christ abolished them.

Sorry, but that is simply not possible unless you trash Torah and Tanakh and, therefore, your entire "Old Testament":

Deuteronomy 4: (2): "your G-d…shall not add to what I have commanded you or subtract."

Dt. 13(1): "You shall be careful to observe, neither adding to it or subtracting."

Dt. 13(5): "His commandment you shall observe, holding fast to Him alone."

Dt. 29(28): "Concerns us and our descendents forever, that we may carry out all the words of this Law."

Joshua 1(5): "I will not leave or forsake you…(7) observe the entire Law … do not swerve from it."

Psalms 19(8): "The Law of the Lord is perfect… (10) the ordinances of the Lord are true; all of them are just."

Ps. 119(160): "permanence is Your words chief trait, each of Your just ordinances is everlasting."

Isaiah 42(21): "pleased the Lord in His justice to make His Law great and glorious."

Is. 66(17): "they who eat swine’s flesh … shall all perish."

Baruch 4(1): "the Law endures forever."



If any Christian claims otherwise, they trash their own scriptures.

 

[Sleeppy]

No you said it the wrong way. There is no throne for David's son to sit on, nor a Temple for the Levites to perform sacrifices. But if we did have them and indeed when we will have them again, they will be manned by David's son and the Levites respectively. The treaty is not relevant today, but it is still in effect.

Why has God allowed these to become irrelevant?

 

[CMike]

Why has God allowed these to become irrelevant?

Because there is no temple now.

 

[Sleeppy]

Because there is no temple now.

Why was God's House removed?

 

[Sleeppy]

Sorry, but that is simply not possible unless you trash Torah and Tanakh and, therefore, your entire "Old Testament":

Deuteronomy 4: (2): "your G-d…shall not add to what I have commanded you or subtract."

Dt. 13(1): "You shall be careful to observe, neither adding to it or subtracting."

Dt. 13(5): "His commandment you shall observe, holding fast to Him alone."

Dt. 29(28): "Concerns us and our descendents forever, that we may carry out all the words of this Law."

Joshua 1(5): "I will not leave or forsake you…(7) observe the entire Law … do not swerve from it."

Psalms 19(8): "The Law of the Lord is perfect… (10) the ordinances of the Lord are true; all of them are just."

Ps. 119(160): "permanence is Your words chief trait, each of Your just ordinances is everlasting."

Isaiah 42(21): "pleased the Lord in His justice to make His Law great and glorious."

Is. 66(17): "they who eat swine’s flesh … shall all perish."

Baruch 4(1): "the Law endures forever."



If any Christian claims otherwise, they trash their own scriptures.

The ones who first received these Laws-- where are they?

 

[metis]

Dead, and present-day Jews are their descendants, and the Laws are not binding on gentiles.

 

[Sleeppy]

Dead, and present-day Jews are their descendants, and the Laws are not binding on gentiles.

So, what is it with pork?

All men die, according to God's will.

 

[metis]

You'll have to ask God about that, and us not eating pork probably has nothing to do with either health or longevity.

 

[Avi1001]

You'll have to ask God about that, and us not eating pork probably has nothing to do with either health or longevity.

Are you sure, Metis ? How do you know G-d did not design the molecular structure of the cholesterol molecule so that pork eaters would get high cholesterol ? What if it was his way of supporting PETA ?

 

[Sleeppy]

You'll have to ask God about that, and us not eating pork probably has nothing to do with either health or longevity.

Are you sure, Metis ? How do you know G-d did not design the molecular structure of the cholesterol molecule so that pork eaters would get high cholesterol ? What if it was his way of supporting PETA ?

I find great value in the Torah, and in the prophets (and in Jews); the total prohibition of pork not included. I would much rather have a total prohibition of alcohol. But, I understand moderation.


Do Jews live only according to 613 laws, in Israel? What is considered adding? When Jews travel outside of Israel, to places where some of these laws are subtracted and added to- what does this mean?

 

[Tumah]

Do Jews live only according to 613 laws, in Israel? What is considered adding? When Jews travel outside of Israel, to places where some of these laws are subtracted and added to- what does this mean?

You are (purposely, judging from your 'subtracted and added' comment) being obtuse. Some Laws don't apply outside of Israel.
Example:
Sabbatical year
Ex. 23:10 "And six years sow your land..." Only Israel is our land.
Lev. 25:2 "Speak to the children of Israel and say to them, 'when you come to the land that I am giving you...'" This is Israel
Deut. 15:4 "... because blessed will He bless you, in the land which G-d, your G-d gives you for an inheritance..." Try to guess which land that is.

As you can see, this is one of the 613 Laws that specifically applies in Israel. There are others. They generally have "your land" attached to them. Then there are all the sacrificial Laws and Temple Laws which obviously only apply in the Temple, in Israel.

 

[Sleeppy]

You are (purposely, judging from your 'subtracted and added' comment) being obtuse. Some Laws don't apply outside of Israel.
Example:
Sabbatical year
Ex. 23:10 "And six years sow your land..." Only Israel is our land.
Lev. 25:2 "Speak to the children of Israel and say to them, 'when you come to the land that I am giving you...'" This is Israel
Deut. 15:4 "... because blessed will He bless you, in the land which G-d, your G-d gives you for an inheritance..." Try to guess which land that is.

As you can see, this is one of the 613 Laws that specifically applies in Israel. There are others. They generally have "your land" attached to them. Then there are all the sacrificial Laws and Temple Laws which obviously only apply in the Temple, in Israel.

I understand. I know that many of these Laws are very specific, and that some of them are no longer observed, for various reasons. I'm not being obtuse; I'm trying to understand the parameters of your Law- as someone who was raised by much of it.

To put it simply.. If there was a Temple, and a throne, and everything necessary was in place- would there only be 613 laws, in Israel?

 

[Tumah]

I understand. I know that many of these Laws are very specific, and that some of them are no longer observed, for various reasons. I'm not being obtuse; I'm trying to understand the parameters of your Law- as someone who was raised by much of it.

To put it simply.. If there was a Temple, and a throne, and everything necessary was in place- would there only be 613 laws, in Israel?

Including marriage and divorce Laws and such that are obviously conditional to circumstance, then there would be 613 Biblical Laws plus the Rabbinical Decrees that would still be relevant in such a state.

 

[Porque77]

Jesus didn't abolish anything for the jews.

The Torah is from G-D, nothing can be abolished for the jews.

Jesus' religion is for christians not jews.

You are very wrong, because the true Law that God gave to Moses, is the Gospel Law. The Gospel's Law was the Law that received Moses and the people of Israel:

"And I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the Sea. And all were baptized to Moses in the cloud, and in the Sea, and all ate the same spiritual food. And all drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank of the spiritual rock following, and that Rock was Christ" (1 Corinthians 10:1-5)

"all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets". (Matthew 7:12)

Thus, as Romans 13:10 tells us, "love is the fulfilling of the law". This shows you that the true Law that God gave Moses is the Law and the commandments that Jesus taught us in the Gospel.

Jesus himself said that the Law and the prophets is this:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)

And also, Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law:

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many commandments of the Old Testament commanded death sentences, wars and slavery. And those commandments weren't really God's Law.

Therefore, to know the true law of God, the first thing to understand is that the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Gospel, reveal the true Law of God.

True Law that God gave to Moses, are not all the laws of the Old Testament (of which many commanded: wars, death sentences, slavery and sacrifices). Those laws were not the true Law of God, because Jesus himself said that the Law and the prophets is this:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)

 

[Sleeppy]

Including marriage and divorce Laws and such that are obviously conditional to circumstance, then there would be 613 Biblical Laws plus the Rabbinical Decrees that would still be relevant in such a state.

What can you say about Rabbinical Decrees? Process, etc.

 

[metis]

You are very wrong, because the true Law that God gave to Moses, is the Gospel Law. The Gospel's Law was the Law that received Moses and the people of Israel:...

There's no foundation for that, but you can certainly believe in what you want to believe, and I will defend your right to do just that.

:run:

 

[Tumah]

What can you say about Rabbinical Decrees? Process, etc.

What can you say about the ocean? You have to be a little more specific than that.