The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

[Prophet]

Here's the Law: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

As you'll see, it does not allow for us to commit genocide or kill homosexuals, and a belief that God does as such is from a literalistic interpretation of scripture. For all practical purposes, we are more people of the Talmud. IOW, much has been written since the Pentateuch.

And you do not see how intense devoted study of scripture coupled with a weak mind could lead one to believe one's own scriptures are infallible, especially when said scriptures repeatedly claim their own infallibility?

 

[metis]

And you do not see how intense devoted study of scripture coupled with a weak mind could lead one to believe one's own scriptures are infallible, especially when said scriptures repeatedly claim their own infallibility?

Education is typically a double-edged sword.

BTW, the vast majority of Jews are not literalistic with our approach to our own scriptures, but there's a small percentage that are. Again, in order to understand today's Judaism, one needs to be at least somewhat familiar with the Talmud.

 

[CMike]

You clearly say genocide can be sponsored by God in post #596 of this thread.



You did not answer when I asked about the atrocities committed by Amalekite infants that warranted their massacre.

You also add that God executes homosexuals in post #606:



Where exactly am I putting words into your mouth?

Some advice.

[youtube]ub_a2t0ZfTs[/youtube]
This Is Your Brain On Drugs (Original) - YouTube

 

[Prophet]

Education is typically a double-edged sword.

BTW, the vast majority of Jews are not literalistic with our approach to our own scriptures, but there's a small percentage that are. Again, in order to understand today's Judaism, one needs to be at least somewhat familiar with the Talmud.

I was raised by Zionist evangelical Christians who want for Israel to be whole again so that the prophecy of the Armageddon can take place and Jesus would come down and reign for 1,000 years. Dumb people are funny.

 

[Prophet]

Some advice.

[youtube]ub_a2t0ZfTs[/youtube]
This Is Your Brain On Drugs (Original) - YouTube

It is very very kind of your to offer me such caring advice, but I would be remiss if I didn't offer my advice in return. Next time you are exposed as a liar in a thread, either apologize or dodge.

 

[CMike]

It is very very kind of your to offer me such caring advice, but I would be remiss if I didn't offer my advice in return. Next time you are exposed as a liar in a thread, either apologize or dodge.

My pleasure and I hope you take your advice.

 

[Porque77]

Maybe the oldest texts for Christians was Greek.

For jews it was the Hebrew text that started at the time of Moses.

No matter the text that there was in the time of Moses because NO LONGER EXISTS. The earliest texts we have are in Greek, not Hebrew. The Hebrew texts are translations of Greek texts, and many times very bad translations.

The five books of Moses come from G-D.

The prophet warns about scribes that may and try to change the text.

You aren't listening to what the prophets have said, because they said that God's law was changed. God's Law was changed. This was announced by the prophets. Not only does the prophet Jeremiah said that the Law had been changed. Other prophets also said it:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

"Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have falsified the law". (Zephaniah 3:4)

" My covenant was with him of life and peace........ The law of truth was in his mouth....... But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 2:5-8)

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. For this reason, the Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ gave us the true Law that God gave to Moses.

 

[CMike]

Maybe the earliest texts YOU have are in Greek, ours are in Hebrew and are far older than greek tanslations.

 

[CMike]

No matter the text that there was in the time of Moses because NO LONGER EXISTS. The earliest texts we have are in Greek, not Hebrew. The Hebrew texts are translations of Greek texts, and many times very bad translations.

You aren't listening to what the prophets have said, because they said that God's law was changed. God's Law was changed. This was announced by the prophets. Not only does the prophet Jeremiah said that the Law had been changed. Other prophets also said it:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

"Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have falsified the law". (Zephaniah 3:4)

" My covenant was with him of life and peace........ The law of truth was in his mouth....... But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 2:5-8)

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. For this reason, the Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ gave us the true Law that God gave to Moses.

Deuterenomy 13

1. Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it.

 

[Desert Snake]

Thanks for sharing your opinion Muffled. You have disagreed with me on most points, but that is to be expected. We don't share many ideas in common, and I represent a much more sceptical view of the church today. I think that the bad things that have happened in Jesus name did happen in his name, and you cannot separate yourself from other Christians. One of the mysteries Paul teaches is that Christ is a body of people and the sins of one afflict the rest. It is irresponsible to simply dissociate from the bad actions of a member while at the same time claiming responsibility for all of the good acts of the martyrs and the prophets and all of the good Christians like Mother Teresa. If you have kinship to the martyrs you also have kinship to the crusaders. If Christ is a body at all then all members share responsibility, not just joy. The Puritans are responsible for the mistaken killing and conviction of women accused of witchcraft in Salem, and to associate with their good deeds and claim kinship to them is to assume responsibility also for their wrongdoings. It includes the responsibility for repairing the root causes that caused them to judge people so harshly for example, not just to say that "I am not responsible for that as it is not something I would do."

This doesn't really make sense, there is bad in all religions, also, i'm not responsible/neither is Muffled, for someone elses bad actions.

 

[CMike]

[

You aren't listening to what the prophets have said[/COLOR][/SIZE], because they said that God's law was changed. God's Law was changed. This was announced by the prophets. Not only does the prophet Jeremiah said that the Law had been changed. Other prophets also said it:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

[]

It was changed by Christians. It's a prophesy. That's what prophets do, they prophesize

 

[RabbiO]

You aren't listening to what the prophets have said, because they said that God's law was changed. God's Law was changed. This was announced by the prophets. Not only does the prophet Jeremiah said that the Law had been changed. Other prophets also said it....

Actually, you're the one who isn't listening to what the prophets said, first because your translations are faulty, and second, because you have removed quotes from out of their context.

It doesn't matter how big the font you choose, it doesn't matter how many colors you use, or don't use. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat the verse from Jeremiah - and you may be in line to be listed in the Guiness Book of World Records for the number of times you have used it - you will still be as mistaken as you were when you started this thread.

 

[Flankerl]

What a fun thread.

 

[Brickjectivity]

This doesn't really make sense, there is bad in all religions, also, i'm not responsible/neither is Muffled, for someone elses bad actions.

That seems very reasonable at first. Why I wonder then on what basis Jesus tells the Pharisees "Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them. So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets." (Luke 11:47). So what if their ancestors killed the prophets? They didn't do it themselves. That should count for something, shouldn't it? Yes, it seems that you and I may both disagree with Jesus on this point, unless you think we have made a mistake?

 

[Desert Snake]

That seems very reasonable at first. Why I wonder then on what basis Jesus tells the Pharisees "Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them." (Luke 11:47). So what if their ancestors killed the prophets? They didn't do it themselves. That should count for something, shouldn't it? Yes, it seems that you and I may both disagree with Jesus on this point, unless you think we have made a mistake?

This example is terrible, sorry. You said that all Christians or any group is 'responsible' for any actions performed by others, whereas that verse is Jesus directly talking to the Pharisees in a context that is personal, the Pharisees are at fault here, as much as their ancestors.
Your response to Muffled indicated that people are at fault for OTHERS actions, good luck finding scripture to back up that claim.

 

[metis]

The Hebrew texts are translations of Greek texts, and many times very bad translations.

How many times do you have to be shown that the above is wrong, and yet you keep coming back with the same nonsense. You want to discredit your entire position, keep up posting stories that clearly have been shown not to be true.

The Hebrew texts predated the Greek Septuagint, the latter was translated from the Hebrew and not the other way around, and it's the Septuagint that has some errors of translation found within. Anyone should know that when one translates from one language to another, there's almost always going to something "lost in translation".

 

[Brickjectivity]

This example is terrible, sorry. You said that all Christians or any group is 'responsible' for any actions performed by others, whereas that verse is Jesus directly talking to the Pharisees in a context that is personal, the Pharisees are at fault here, as much as their ancestors.
Your response to Muffled indicated that people are at fault for OTHERS actions, good luck finding scripture to back up that claim.

Jesus prayed for all of his disciples to be one. (John 17) For this prayer to be answered there would have to be a sense of common responsibility, which at the moment is absent or nearly so. I'm merely griping about that. Among Christians there is this attitude of "I didn't do that." and "I'm different." Paul taught that the Church is the body of Christ and the members are not individuals anymore. He said if you join yourself to a prostitute [probably referring to idolatry not a woman], you join Christ to that 'Prostitute.' (I Corinthians 6:15) He taught that the body of Christ rejoiced together or suffered together. (I Corinthians 12:26) There is also a sense of time-independence to it. A believer's life was hidden in Christ, part of Christ with their own bodies no longer belonging to themselves but to Christ. Today there is very little cognizance of that. Instead Christians distance themselves from responsibility for other's actions, other's problems. There is no unity in other words. If Jesus laid responsibility upon the Pharisees for the actions of other Jews whose actions they disagreed with, perhaps Christians could consider taking responsibility for the wrongs of one another. He stuck it to them for things they didn't do. Christians accept that when it comes to the Pharisees but not to Christians. The concept of losing yourself and becoming part of a larger whole emerges when you read 1 Corinthians. What you do doesn't only affect you but all other Christians, too. You become part of a body, etc. If Christians would begin to act like Jesus prayed that they would it might be a good thing, but I don't think its happening. I don't see unity anywhere, either now or in the past. This is what I referred to in my response to Muffled.

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus prayed for all of his disciples to be one. (John 17) For this prayer to be answered there would have to be a sense of common responsibility, which at the moment is absent or nearly so. I'm merely griping about that. Among Christians there is this attitude of "I didn't do that." and "I'm different." Paul taught that the Church is the body of Christ and the members are not individuals anymore. He said if you join yourself to a prostitute [probably referring to idolatry not a woman], you join Christ to that 'Prostitute.' (I Corinthians 6:15) He taught that the body of Christ rejoiced together or suffered together. (I Corinthians 12:26) There is also a sense of time-independence to it. A believer's life was hidden in Christ, part of Christ with their own bodies no longer belonging to themselves but to Christ. Today there is very little cognizance of that. Instead Christians distance themselves from responsibility for other's actions, other's problems. There is no unity in other words. If Jesus laid responsibility upon the Pharisees for the actions of other Jews whose actions they disagreed with, perhaps Christians could consider taking responsibility for the wrongs of one another. He stuck it to them for things they didn't do. Christians accept that when it comes to the Pharisees but not to Christians. The concept of losing yourself and becoming part of a larger whole emerges when you read 1 Corinthians. What you do doesn't only affect you but all other Christians, too. You become part of a body, etc. If Christians would begin to act like Jesus prayed that they would it might be a good thing, but I don't think its happening. I don't see unity anywhere, either now or in the past. This is what I referred to in my response to Muffled.

I think there is a distinction here between 'responsibility' and 'fault'. I agree with you, there is much to criticize about Christians and their actions, but placing 'blame' where it doesn't belong is not going to help anything, imo.

 

[CMike]

How many times do you have to be shown that the above is wrong, and yet you keep coming back with the same nonsense. You want to discredit your entire position, keep up posting stories that clearly have been shown not to be true.

The Hebrew texts predated the Greek Septuagint, the latter was translated from the Hebrew and not the other way around, and it's the Septuagint that has some errors of translation found within. Anyone should know that when one translates from one language to another, there's almost always going to something "lost in translation".

This is like posting in the Twilight Zone.

 

[metis]

This is like posting in the Twilight Zone.

Do do do do, do do do do...