The Qur'aan Cosmological Model: A delineation of the Origin, Evolution and End of the Universe

[the_thinker]

Let's move the discussion about Adam elsewhere as I don't want this thread to get distracted.


yes thanks let's not get carried away

 

[al-amiyr]

I don't doubt that expansion could slow down. It could even slow down to the point where it halt in its expansion.

But the point with Big Bounce and the Big Crunch is that it will reverse on to itself, and contract to the point it (universe) will be a singularity again. It will take far greater forces to cause contraction of the entire universe into the singularity.

The Big Crunch and Big Bounce are both interesting hypotheses, but I don't see how either could happen, do you?

Not sure of the elasticity of space but I've heard that if the expansion continued it could rip the space apart. I can't get the balloon analogy out of my head and I picture space expanding until the forces can't pull apart any longer so space just snaps back in place. Any how I'm just not sure we know enough.

You mean the Big Rip.

Yep, that's the alternative cosmology for a continually expanding universe.

I am just running ahead of the Qur'aan Cosmological presentation to show what the Qur'aan says on the matter of the Big Rip.

Qur'aan Chapter: The Ripping Apart 84:1-6
When Space would have become Ripped Apart
hearkening to its Lord as it is bound to do!
And when the Earth (matter) is spread out
and casts forth whatever is in it, and becomes utterly void
hearkening to its Lord as it is bound to do!
Then verily, O man, thou art labouring unto thy Lord laboriously, and thou shalt encounter Him.

That is but a poor translation of what the original contains. Here is another verse.

Qur'aan Chapter: The Reality 69:15-27
​

On that day shall the great event come to pass,
And Space would have been Ripped Apart, for that day it shall be frail,
And the angels shall be on the sides thereof; and on that day eight shall bear the throne of thy lord.
On that day you shall be exposed to view-- no secret of yours shall remain hidden.
Then as for him who is given his book in his right hand, he will say: Lo! read my book:
Surely I knew that I shall meet my account.
So he shall be in a life of pleasure,
In a lofty garden,
The fruits of which are near at hand:
Eat and drink pleasantly for what you did beforehand in the days gone by.
And as for him who is given his book in his left hand he shall say: O would that my book had never been given me:
And I had not known what my account was:
O would that it had made an end (of me):

So again according to The Qur'aan Cosmological Model after the run away expansion shall come the Great Ripping Apart (Big Rip). But at a point after that ALLAAH shall cease it and bring it back into submission.

Soon I shall go into the great details... inshaa allaah [if allaah had willed (the time.)]
​

​

 

[Lady B]

You must read whatever I wrote in context with the correct quotes about the correct statements before saying or thinking what I said or did not say. That would be the correct thing to do.

You are right, and I stand corrected

 

[1robin]

Still waiting Mr al-amiyr: I have asked this several times and been promised an answer and still have not recieved it. I spent many years in school and the teacher that everyone dropped was the one who would not spend the time to straighten out his premise before prattleing on with his conclusions. I have also noticed that many times people use volume and language to attempt to convince alone and will not bear to have their claims examined in detail to establish any merit in the volumes of rhetoric that is produced. If the questions below are not answered again I will conclude that that is the case here as well. I do not think it worth the effort to put forth grand theories if they are not capable of or you are unwilling to provide a defence for them.

Why do you keep posting more without justifying what you already have? I asked the simple question, What does t=0 mean specifically in your claims? When is T=0 days ago. If you don't fix the problems you have, posting more makes it worse. In fact you never even explained why the point slope equation of a line was doing in your first proof of God post. Quantity will not accomplish what quality must.

They should be easy to defend and necessary to explain if you truly wish understanding and actually have enough confidence in what you post to allow contention.

 

[kylixguru]

Still waiting Mr al-amiyr: I have asked this several times and been promised an answer and still have not recieved it. I spent many years in school and the teacher that everyone dropped was the one who would not spend the time to straighten out his premise before prattleing on with his conclusions.

I consider this very rude on your part.

I have also noticed that many times people use volume and language to attempt to convince alone and will not bear to have their claims examined in detail to establish any merit in the volumes of rhetoric that is produced.

I have also noticed some people dislike a potential conclusion they see someone working towards and they do everything in their power to derail it, simply because they willfully misunderstand and hold to their fears and presumptions.

I for one hope he ignores you and tends to the questions coming from people who obviously genuinely wish to understand him and are sincerely trying to do so.

If the questions below are not answered again I will conclude that that is the case here as well. I do not think it worth the effort to put forth grand theories if they are not capable of or you are unwilling to provide a defence for them.

There isn't yet anything substantive to defend.
He is still unfolding things a piece at a time.
So far pretty much everyone has no trouble following him.

They should be easy to defend and necessary to explain if you truly wish understanding and actually have enough confidence in what you post to allow contention.

Well, be patient and at least let him get to a point where he has unfolded what he wishes to unfold. Sometimes questions you may have will naturally be answered if you patiently bear with him and allow him to continue.
I believe he already indicated this was the case. So, please, give him the space to move forward if for no other reason than there are others who prefer he continue and not be distracted.

 

[1robin]

I consider this very rude on your part.

Why would that matter to me? I guess requesting clarification in your world is rude. Why are you answering posts made specifically to someone else? I consider it far ruder to either refuse to explain the premise of an argument or as in this case to promise to do so and then not follow through.

I have also noticed some people dislike a potential conclusion they see someone working towards and they do everything in their power to derail it, simply because they willfully misunderstand and hold to their fears and presumptions.

I not only have not bothered to examine a conclusion who's foundation is so flawed, I have no idea what it might be. I am not avoiding something I am unaware of. You may be easily impressed by a bunch of irrelevant math and rhetoric as many people who value conclusions they like enough to ignore the shaky foundations they are built on. I have seen it used many times for effect and when it's actual substance is challenged it falls like a house of cards and so is resisted by any means necessary. One certain way to determine this is broken promises or a refusal to explain the foundations of a theory.

I for one hope he ignores you and tends to the questions coming from people who obviously genuinely wish to understand him and are sincerely trying to do so.

That is the mantra of anyone that builds on sand instead of rock.

There isn't yet anything substantive to defend.

You are over your head. There are many preposterous theories in his foundational premise that he then just keeps building on.

He is still unfolding things a piece at a time.
So far pretty much everyone has no trouble following him.

What I have seen is that people show up and the ones that have a working knowledge of math, physics, or cosmology examine it, can't get anything out of it, or an explanation for points in it and then leave. Below are just two of the many examples of this.

Your Qur'an Cosmological Model is nothing more than conjecture or unverifiable hypothesis. If you have evidences, then submit your proposition (eg. papers, reports) - along with any evidence or mathematical proof(s) - before peer-review for other scientists (astrophysicists, astronomers, cosmologists) to examine your hypothesis and findings.

I think i have answered,the information is scant IMO,it boils down to what you believe it says and its significance to a literal interpretation and the significance of that,either way its not that impressive to me,if someone thinks it is,fine.

Well, be patient and at least let him get to a point where he has unfolded what he wishes to unfold. Sometimes questions you may have will naturally be answered if you patiently bear with him and allow him to continue.

I believe he already indicated this was the case. So, please, give him the space to move forward if for no other reason than there are others who prefer he continue and not be distracted.

If you demand a billion dollars to build a sky scraper and when the banks building inspector shows up and looks at the foundation and sees huge problems and errors would you just keep investing money. Would you sit around and tell your banks investors to be patient and let him complete what your experts say will fall over very soon and present very well established principles by which this is a fact? No you wouldn't unless you have some investment in the economics surrounding the deal that make you value any construction over sound construction. Not only that but when you question the builder he keeps saying he will explain the foundation issues but never does. That is the same with my time. I have enough education in math, physics, and engineering to know his premise is flawed. Why would I then invest my time in what is built on it as it can't stand. My original statements here were complemented several times.

What some by stander thinks about what the bank should require for it's investment in capital is not only irrelevant but illogical.

 

[kylixguru]

Why would that matter to me? I guess requesting clarification in your world is rude.

Not if it is done politely and with genuine interest.

You did so rudely and I have good reason to question your sincerity.

Why are you here seeking to learn of potentially deeply significant religious truth from the Hidden Book as manifested from the Qur'aan if what you have told me elsewhere gives me to know you have already concluded the Qur'aan can only be a Satanic Book?

Why are you answering posts made specifically to someone else?

You are here with an axe to grind against Islam and the Qur'aan and since I have the time I'll let you try and grind it with me so as not to waste the precious time of others.

I consider it far ruder to either refuse to explain the premise of an argument or as in this case to promise to do so and then not follow through.

He also said he would do so as he has time and that he would prioritize to the more important matters.
I think he is entirely justified to totally ignore you and I hope he continues to do so.

 

[1robin]

Not if it is done politely and with genuine interest.

Even weeks after the time it was promised?

You did so rudely and I have good reason to question your sincerity.
You have taken a posture of self-righteous jerk towards someone I have much respect for.

I do not value your estimation. I originally found this mountain of rhetoric and was very polite. I quickly saw flaws and a lack of understanding when I was replied to. I know you probably won't understand this but here it is anyway. I originally noticed that the point slope equation for a line was in a foundational proof for God. I have studied dynamics and algebra quite a bit and knew there was no way that has anything to do with God. I then questioned him about it and what I got back was so screwed up as to confirm my belief that he did not understand what he was posting to any meaningfull degree. If you go back others pointed that out concerning his responses to me. I then to make sure followed that up with more questions and I was given a description for the trajectory of a bullet. That does not fit with the equation. The equation assumes a hypothetical nongravitational and none atmospheric environment that the bullet does not describe. I knew for sure now that he did not understand what he was posting. However to be even more sure I explained that what he described is a one dimensional elastic collision and is not applicable to the point slope equation of a line. He dissagreed and I concluded my evaluation of his competance in physics. If you review it you will see that the other posters that understand basic physics agreed. I did allow him a chance to redeem himself with the T=0 issue and was promised a response but never got it. Why after all that would I conclude his theory is reasonable or worth consideration? I do not claim to be a mathematician or a physicist but the issues are elementary and only a slight college level education is necessary to see the flaws inherent in his propositions.

Why are you here seeking to learn of potentially deeply significant religious truth from the Hidden Book as manifested from the Qur'aan if what you have told me elsewhere gives me to know you have already concluded the Qur'aan can only be a Satanic Book?

Because I never stop testing and verifying what I believe. I wanted to test this theory and see if my beliefs add up. They do as of now.

You are here with an axe to grind against Islam and the Qur'aan and since I have the time I'll let you try and grind it with me so as not to waste the precious time of others.

For someone who professes Christianity you have a far more inconsistent position than I do. I am after truth. I believe the Quran is not the truth in general but I test that at every opportunity. I also point out false teachings that are being masqueraded as truth. Unlike many I let truth determine my beliefs instead of the other way around.

He also said he would do so as he has time and that he would prioritize to the more important matters.
I think he is entirely justified to totally ignore you and I hope he continues to do so.

I doubt you and even his ability to determine what is truly important. The issues I wanted clarification on are fundamental and necessary foundational work on which the structure stands or falls. It is apparent that that clarification isn't coming or available to be provided. I give up. I have no interest in having a debate by proxy with someone who does not understand physics.

 

[kylixguru]

I have no interest in having a debate by proxy with someone who does not understand physics.

I have had a few college courses upon the subject of Physics and I received some hard earned A grades at it.
I am a trained engineer who short-circuited getting a degree because I got hired out early by a fortune 500 company.
I'm may not be certified, but I believe I am well qualified to hear him out.

 

[al-amiyr]

Due to my being busy answering in another thread Hidden Book mentioned in the Qur'aan I have left this thread for a week or so. I will be back in a few days time. The story of the Qur'aan Cosmological Model is yet to begin. What you have been given so far is probably less than 1%. Ask all your questions. I read them all and will be back to answer them all inshaa allaah if God had willed (the time).

 

[1robin]

I have had a few college courses upon the subject of Physics and I received some hard earned A grades at it.
I am a trained engineer who short-circuited getting a degree because I got hired out early by a fortune 500 company.
I'm may not be certified, but I believe I am well qualified to hear him out.

If so then why in the world are you adopting a proof that has an equation for a line in it's foundation that apparently the author can't account for it's use. As well as adopting a T=0 condition wher matter is still present. Time is duration as long as matter exists T is not equal to 0. That is why the Bible says that time, matter, and space began to exist at the same time. Also I think I saw that at some point time is reversed and thermodynamics (times arrow) renders that impossible. I would have thought you would have found those problematic. The Christian PhD I work for did as I always double check scientific claims with him. Anyway I no longer am hopefull of any answers so respond or don't I no longer care. I originally thought this topic would be fascinating but I can't get any clarification and it has become quite dissapointing.

 

[kylixguru]

If so then why in the world are you adopting a proof that has an equation for a line in it's foundation that apparently the author can't account for it's use. As well as adopting a T=0 condition wher matter is still present. Time is duration as long as matter exists T is not equal to 0. That is why the Bible says that time, matter, and space began to exist at the same time. Also I think I saw that at some point time is reversed and thermodynamics (times arrow) renders that impossible. I would have thought you would have found those problematic. The Christian PhD I work for did as I always double check scientific claims with him. Anyway I no longer am hopefull of any answers so respond or don't I no longer care. I originally thought this topic would be fascinating but I can't get any clarification and it has become quite dissapointing.

I'm not making any judgment or rebuttals at this time.
I am doing my best to understand what is being presented with the intent to first understand it as he intends for me to understand it.
Whether I agree with what is being said or not can wait until after he has completed his presentation.
This is simply being patient, respectful and generous.
I've found that I learn many things by being this way.
How can you hope to see all if you are unwilling to hear all?

 

[FearGod]

Even weeks after the time it was promised?

I do not value your estimation. I originally found this mountain of rhetoric and was very polite. I quickly saw flaws and a lack of understanding when I was replied to. I know you probably won't understand this but here it is anyway. I originally noticed that the point slope equation for a line was in a foundational proof for God. I have studied dynamics and algebra quite a bit and knew there was no way that has anything to do with God. I then questioned him about it and what I got back was so screwed up as to confirm my belief that he did not understand what he was posting to any meaningfull degree. If you go back others pointed that out concerning his responses to me. I then to make sure followed that up with more questions and I was given a description for the trajectory of a bullet. That does not fit with the equation. The equation assumes a hypothetical nongravitational and none atmospheric environment that the bullet does not describe. I knew for sure now that he did not understand what he was posting. However to be even more sure I explained that what he described is a one dimensional elastic collision and is not applicable to the point slope equation of a line. He dissagreed and I concluded my evaluation of his competance in physics. If you review it you will see that the other posters that understand basic physics agreed. I did allow him a chance to redeem himself with the T=0 issue and was promised a response but never got it. Why after all that would I conclude his theory is reasonable or worth consideration? I do not claim to be a mathematician or a physicist but the issues are elementary and only a slight college level education is necessary to see the flaws inherent in his propositions.


Because I never stop testing and verifying what I believe. I wanted to test this theory and see if my beliefs add up. They do as of now.

For someone who professes Christianity you have a far more inconsistent position than I do. I am after truth. I believe the Quran is not the truth in general but I test that at every opportunity. I also point out false teachings that are being masqueraded as truth. Unlike many I let truth determine my beliefs instead of the other way around.

I doubt you and even his ability to determine what is truly important. The issues I wanted clarification on are fundamental and necessary foundational work on which the structure stands or falls. It is apparent that that clarification isn't coming or available to be provided. I give up. I have no interest in having a debate by proxy with someone who does not understand physics.

i advice you not to waste your time since you are not interested on this thread and don't worry about our time,we are enjoying this thread and we are very eager to see what will be next.

He is spending a lot of time to post his ideas which he spent also years in searching for the truth and we are just getting it ready in few minutes of reading.

i thank you very much that you are so worried about our time.

 

[sojourner]

Translation:

As long as you're willing to be Pollyannaish about our "theories" (that have no basis in science), and not be too skeptical about what we have to say, you can stay and play with us. Otherwise, we're gonna be snarky.

 

[1robin]

Translation:

As long as you're willing to be Pollyannaish about our "theories" (that have no basis in science), and not be too skeptical about what we have to say, you can stay and play with us. Otherwise, we're gonna be snarky.

I thought I had a new ally against this rhetorical menagery. I did not realize it was good old Sojourner with a new avatar. Howdy.
You are right they do not care care if the foundations is cracking and crumbling because it is made of styraphoam as long as the illusion built on top of it pleases them for some strange reason like flashing lights do with and a kid. If science operated like this we would have fleets of beautiful planes that can't fly and gorgeous ships that sink as soon as they are launched. Satan is said to come as an angel of light. I am sure if scrutiny is not allowed he could and does slip anything in.

By the way I recommended you to a poster (work in progress) because he/she was very intelligent and is interested in views similar to yours concerning the biological factors concerning homosexuality. I hope that was ok.

 

[kylixguru]

Translation:

As long as you're willing to be Pollyannaish about our "theories" (that have no basis in science), and not be too skeptical about what we have to say, you can stay and play with us. Otherwise, we're gonna be snarky.

That's a gross misrepresentation of what I advocated.
Nobody should ever put aside healthy skepticism.
Is all that is asked is that they be understood as intended, and in full, before any final judgments are made.
I am responding to the snarkiness of 1Robin who was being quite rude.
You too are being quite rude to grossly misrepresent what I have advocated.

 

[1robin]

That's a gross misrepresentation of what I advocated.
Nobody should ever put aside healthy skepticism.
Is all that is asked is that they be understood as intended, and in full, before any final judgments are made.
I am responding to the snarkiness of 1Robin who was being quite rude.
You too are being quite rude to grossly misrepresent what I have advocated.

This is not the case. My questions were first answered wrongly. Then promised in the future. Then ignored. Then criticised. I am not going to wait for the building to fall before I question it's foundations. You seem to be mesmerised by something that has no rational basis in physics or math. That would be fine but you also seem to value the illusion to the extent that you resent any efforts to clear up what is necesary to make it worth looking into or at in your case. I am sensing a pattern with you here and other areas as well. There have many been competant posters that have had an identical experience in this thread.

 

[FearGod]

This is not the case. My questions were first answered wrongly. Then promised in the future. Then ignored. Then criticised. I am not going to wait for the building to fall before I question it's foundations. You seem to be mesmerised by something that has no rational basis in physics or math. That would be fine but you also seem to value the illusion to the extent that you resent any efforts to clear up what is necesary to make it worth looking into or at in your case. I am sensing a pattern with you here and other areas as well. There have many been competant posters that have had an identical experience in this thread.

In one thread i asked you about the trinity,then you said it is easy,water can be liquid,gas,solid and it is still water.

So do you think that symbol is a strong foundation to understand trinity and then christianity

 

[kylixguru]

This is not the case. My questions were first answered wrongly. Then promised in the future. Then ignored. Then criticised. I am not going to wait for the building to fall before I question it's foundations. You seem to be mesmerised by something that has no rational basis in physics or math. That would be fine but you also seem to value the illusion to the extent that you resent any efforts to clear up what is necesary to make it worth looking into or at in your case. I am sensing a pattern with you here and other areas as well. There have many been competant posters that have had an identical experience in this thread.

Nobody is doing any building at this point.
We are being shown architectural drafts of something we can accept or reject.
I am not being mesmerized. I am simply giving him space to present his views.
I admit I am looking at this more along the lines of a geneopolitical creation than a cosmic one.
But, I do truly believe once the geneopolitical understanding is grasped that meaningful truths about our cosmos will become accessible as well. As above, so below.
I'm not going to wield my knowledge of math and physics until after I understand him.

 

[Lady B]

Don't worry guys, The world will not end (my banana told me so...) by allowing Al-Amyr the graciousness to finish his presentation, of which he began by asking us to be patient and at a certain point he will address our questions. When you join a book club, you must finish the book to discuss and debate it, this is all he is asking us to do. He has been very patient in each of his threads by allowing us to go way of course and bringing us back in line. It is his thread after all, I think we need to let the man make his presentation.
Signed Pollyanna...