The Qur'aan Cosmological Model: A delineation of the Origin, Evolution and End of the Universe

[gnostic]

I am fully aware of everything that you have raised in the article but you have no knowledge about the Qur'aan Cosmological Model and how deep it goes. For example when you mention the Bounce the Qur'aan Cosmological Model already mentions the exact word Bounce (Tafrah) with its mathematical delineation.

The proper names for the Big Bounce is either the cyclic model or the oscillatory universe.

There are many variants of the cyclic model. Each one has been discarded, because it is based purely on conjectures or speculations of how the universe would end. There are no evidences to support any of the scenario, I doubt there are any evidence to support your Qur'an Cosmological Model.

All current evidences showed that the expansion of the universe is not slowing down or reversing (reversing in the case for the Big Crunch or the cyclic/Big Bounce).

If anything, the evidences confirmed that the rate of expansion is actually accelerating.

Your Qur'an Cosmological Model is nothing more than conjecture or unverifiable hypothesis. If you have evidences, then submit your proposition (eg. papers, reports) - along with any evidence or mathematical proof(s) - before peer-review for other scientists (astrophysicists, astronomers, cosmologists) to examine your hypothesis and findings.

Without being review by scientists (like the astrophysicists) or other part of the scientific community, your claim is unfounded.

BTW, Islamic scholars are hardly qualified scientists. You have to do better than Shaykh Ahmad Deedat, who has no background in science, so it doesn't matter if he was astonished by those obscure verses.

 

[idav]

All current evidences showed that the expansion of the universe is not slowing down or reversing (reversing in the case for the Big Crunch or the cyclic/Big Bounce).

If anything, the evidences confirmed that the rate of expansion is actually accelerating.

True at this point in time though I'm not sure science has been able to show why the universe slows down or speeds up. It could slow down in a billion years or so, as it has in the past.

 

[gnostic]

True at this point in time though I'm not sure science has been able to show why the universe slows down or speeds up. It could slow down in a billion years or so, as it has in the past.

I don't doubt that expansion could slow down. It could even slow down to the point where it halt in its expansion.

But the point with Big Bounce and the Big Crunch is that it will reverse on to itself, and contract to the point it (universe) will be a singularity again. It will take far greater forces to cause contraction of the entire universe into the singularity.

The Big Crunch and Big Bounce are both interesting hypotheses, but I don't see how either could happen, do you?

 

[the_thinker]

well He did die........

What i was actually referring to is if God, has chosen a Representative on earth,wouldn't you say God would give this Representative a unique quality of himself such as immortality(one travelling through time), and from my understanding this representative has been given the title "Melchizedek" - the one with an indestructible life.

 

[Lady B]

I met him over the telephone in 1993 when I discussed with him The Qur'aan Cosmological Model. He was astounded at what he heard and asked me a question he said no one on earth could give him an answer to (Muslims and Christians). I gave it to him in ten minutes and he replied, "You taught me more knowledge in ten minutes that I learned in my whole life." He also told me to visit him in Durban and for me there would never be any appointments. He was a very humble man. When he came on a lecture tour to Cape Town that same year he announce in all the Mosques asking people to find me. I was located and we had privately arranged meeting at the mains hosts residence. He offered me free assistance for my book The Qur'aan Cosmological Model if I so wish.

The same year I went to Durban where his office was located and asked me to give a lecture on The Qur'aan Cosmological Model which I then did. I took out my large The Qur'aan Cosmological Model Scroll which I carried all over with me and hung it up on the wall and explained it to the audience. They were all astounded. The whole lecture was recorded.

Years passed and after some time of cutting myself off from society I had a call from Yusuf Deedat the son of Shaykh Ahmad Deedat. He told his father who at that time had a stroke, was bedridden and could communicate only through his eyes. The first thing Yusuf Deedat asked me his father wants to know is "How far I am with The Qur'aan Cosmological Model and why I did not yet finish it." I told him that The Qur'aan Cosmological Model had taken me to a higher dimension of knowledge and I was absorbed in it night and day.
As I had a Tiling business and did the retail shops for the fastest growing company in South Africa, I found myself all over the country. I ended up in Durban somewhere in 2005 and paid my old friend a visit at his home. We were very happy to see each other.
I bought a little writing board and gave Shaykh Deedat a few lessons from the book (al-kitaab) which he could fully understand. He was a truly wise man. I never met a man in my life who was so humble as he was. Many people think he was sometimes arrogant but there is a great difference when a man is in strong debate with fierce and and sometimes viscous opponents than when you meet him in person. He was one of the most accessible men that I knew and would acknowledge a mistake and give credit where credit is due.
As I said before his death he conferred upon me his Kufiyyah ( religious cap he always wore) via his son Yusuf Deedat by placing it on my head. Yusuf Deedat told me that it was the first time that his father did something like that. He effectively chose me to be his heir and he also knew my level of biblical knowledge and how much I love the Bible. If he had hated the Bible he would never have done what he did. Photographs of the occasion was also taken.
That is a little short story to clear matters as well as giving some history how long I have been working on the The Qur'aan Cosmological Model and its effect it had on others. May ALLAAH have mercy on Shaykh Ahmad Deedat.

I never deemed him arrogant, I have alwasy saw he Is a humble man who truly loved God. I may not have agreed with him in many areas, But I feel he always gave a great argument. May God have mercy on us all.:candle:

 

[Lady B]

What i was actually referring to is if God, has chosen a Representative on earth,wouldn't you say God would give this Representative a unique quality of himself such as immortality(one travelling through time), and from my understanding this representative has been given the title "Melchizedek" - the one with an indestructible life.

In all due respect:
Where do you get this? The Bible certainly does not say Adam was given immortality, does the Koran? Why do we need to add to God's word and assume for Him things he did not do or say? Time travel is a man's imagining , Immortality is an attribute of God alone. Adam indeed is in heaven, he died a man's death, his immortality is not different from all our deceased ancestors who are redeemed in that he will have everlasting life in heaven not on earth.
The problem with assigning a man the attributes of God is that we lose sight of what God has told us about Adam. He disobeyed God, he brought sin into the world, the punishment of sin is death, he died. Would then God change his mind and give Adam a reprieve of immortality? I think not.

 

[kylixguru]

In all due respect:
Where do you get this? The Bible certainly does not say Adam was given immortality, does the Koran? Why do we need to add to God's word and assume for Him things he did not do or say? Time travel is a man's imagining , Immortality is an attribute of God alone. Adam indeed is in heaven, he died a man's death, his immortality is not different from all our deceased ancestors who are redeemed in that he will have everlasting life in heaven not on earth.
The problem with assigning a man the attributes of God is that we lose sight of what God has told us about Adam. He disobeyed God, he brought sin into the world, the punishment of sin is death, he died. Would then God change his mind and give Adam a reprieve of immortality? I think not.

I am not going to vouch for all of what the_thinker said, but one of the areas where people have been disadvantaged for a long time is in not really knowing what happened with Adam after He was cast out of the Garden. Most people assume that He remained dead and fallen and that no redemption took place for thousands of years and many think Adam yet remains fallen to this day. What in fact happened is Adam was ministered to and redeemed and put back upon the throne God gave him for the balance of his life, which was about 1,000 years. This puts the life of Adam during the very end of the 6th Day and well into the 7th Day, which is also known as the Millennium, Judgment Day, Sabbath Day, Lord's Day, etc. Who ministers to and redeems Adam? His Firstborn Son who is Son of Man. We also know him as Abel/Seth. I put them together because the Firstborn is an office of responsibility that Seth stood in the place of Abel as Abel's kinsman redeemer. So, Seth is both Adam and Abel's redeemer. Seth is who is referred to when it says God's Christ.

Add: My apologies for going off-topic. This probably should be moved elsewhere for further discussion.

 

[Lady B]

I am not going to vouch for all of what the_thinker said, but one of the areas where people have been disadvantaged for a long time is in not really knowing what happened with Adam after He was cast out of the Garden. Most people assume that He remained dead and fallen and that no redemption took place for thousands of years and many think Adam yet remains fallen to this day. What in fact happened is Adam was ministered to and redeemed and put back upon the throne God gave him for the balance of his life, which was about 1,000 years. This puts the life of Adam during the very end of the 6th Day and well into the 7th Day, which is also known as the Millennium, Judgment Day, Sabbath Day, Lord's Day, etc. Who ministers to and redeems Adam? His Firstborn Son who is Son of Man. We also know him as Abel/Seth. I put them together because the Firstborn is an office of responsibility that Seth stood in the place of Abel as Abel's kinsman redeemer. So, Seth is both Adam and Abel's redeemer. Seth is who is referred to when it says God's Christ.

Add: My apologies for going off-topic. This probably should be moved elsewhere for further discussion.

Why do you not know? the bible tells us the life of Adam was 930 years, he died. wheres room for speculation?

 

[kylixguru]

Why do you not know? the bible tells us the life of Adam was 930 years, he died. wheres room for speculation?

Why do I not know what?

The Hidden Book brings in great clarity on Adam's lifetime accomplishments.
You will find that much of the "end times" prophecy actually pertains to Adam.
He is in both the beginning and the ending of each cycle as the Alpha/Omega.

 

[idav]

I don't doubt that expansion could slow down. It could even slow down to the point where it halt in its expansion.

But the point with Big Bounce and the Big Crunch is that it will reverse on to itself, and contract to the point it (universe) will be a singularity again. It will take far greater forces to cause contraction of the entire universe into the singularity.

The Big Crunch and Big Bounce are both interesting hypotheses, but I don't see how either could happen, do you?

Not sure of the elasticity of space but I've heard that if the expansion continued it could rip the space apart. I can't get the balloon analogy out of my head and I picture space expanding until the forces can't pull apart any longer so space just snaps back in place. Any how I'm just not sure we know enough.

 

[Lady B]

Why do I not know what?

The Hidden Book brings in great clarity on Adam's lifetime accomplishments.
You will find that much of the "end times" prophecy actually pertains to Adam.
He is in both the beginning and the ending of each cycle as the Alpha/Omega.

Are you then making him God? in all due respect, can you give him attributes of God? I have never seen end time prophesy include Adam as the "omega" the end. where do you see this? How is what Al-Amyr is presenting anything to do with exhaulting Adam to God level?

 

[kylixguru]

Are you then making him God?

That's what Adam was made to be. God is who made Adam God. And, that Adam will make the Adam of the next cycle, and so on.

in all due respect, can you give him attributes of God?

I can't but God can and did.

I have never seen end time prophesy include Adam as the "omega" the end.

This is understandable. It has been censored out, for whatever reason.

where do you see this?

In my own way, independent of Al-Amiyr, I have been able to open up the sealed or hidden book and decipher is message. It has always been readily available to anyone.

Once you open this up and read things on the level of understanding it gives you, there is no more mystery to anything religious. You can decipher what everything is, how it works, your place in it, and so on. You will also be able to clearly see and understand what is going on in the world and why things are the way they are.

It might make you utterly sick to your stomach and you may have to part with some cherished fantasies that have no basis in reality, which could cause you a number of sleepless nights recalibrating your whole world view, but ultimately it will be something you will be tremendously grateful for.

How is what Al-Amyr is presenting anything to do with exhaulting Adam to God level?

Well, at this point I'm not exactly sure how he agrees with me, but from a previous post you can see that he does agree with me about the central and pivotal role that Adam plays in the Creation.

Please see post 177 and 180, in case you missed them.

 

[Lady B]

That's what Adam was made to be. God is who made Adam God. And, that Adam will make the Adam of the next cycle, and so on.

I can't but God can and did.

This is understandable. It has been censored out, for whatever reason.

In my own way, independent of Al-Amiyr, I have been able to open up the sealed or hidden book and decipher is message. It has always been readily available to anyone.

Once you open this up and read things on the level of understanding it gives you, there is no more mystery to anything religious. You can decipher what everything is, how it works, your place in it, and so on. You will also be able to clearly see and understand what is going on in the world and why things are the way they are.

It might make you utterly sick to your stomach and you may have to part with some cherished fantasies that have no basis in reality, which could cause you a number of sleepless nights recalibrating your whole world view, but ultimately it will be something you will be tremendously grateful for.

Well, at this point I'm not exactly sure how he agrees with me, but from a previous post you can see that he does agree with me about the central and pivotal role that Adam plays in the Creation.

Please see post 177 and 180, in case you missed them.

You however are seriously attributing God-like status to a man. God did not do this in any scripture that i am aware of. without cutting you off, I will see what we can learn here, fair?

 

[kylixguru]

I did see Al-Amyr's agreement with your posts, I was actually taken aback by this, however I will like to see more before I argue him in this. You however are seriously attributing God-like status to a man. God did not do this in any scripture that i am aware of. without cutting you off, I will see waht we can learn here, fair?

Yes, I am confident you will at some point see Adam in a fuller light.

Add: I will start a new thread elsewhere if anyone should wish to discuss further. Just send me a PM.

 

[al-amiyr]

I did see Al-Amyr's agreement with your posts, I was actually taken aback by this, however I will like to see more before I argue him in this. You however are seriously attributing God-like status to a man. God did not do this in any scripture that i am aware of. without cutting you off, I will see waht we can learn here, fair?

You must read whatever I wrote in context with the correct quotes about the correct statements before saying or thinking what I said or did not say. That would be the correct thing to do.

 

[gnostic]

Not sure of the elasticity of space but I've heard that if the expansion continued it could rip the space apart.

You mean the Big Rip.

Yep, that's the alternative cosmology for a continually expanding universe.

 

[the_thinker]

Why do you not know? the bible tells us the life of Adam was 930 years, he died. wheres room for speculation?

[FONT=&quot]Referring to your previous statement saying only God is immortal - Actually immortality was given by God himself to Melchizedek if you would just take time to read the Book of Hebrews... [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And Yes, the man Adam, according to the bible, lived for 930 years no doubt, but according to my understanding, God wanted to see the essences of His most perfect Names, whose number is infinite, in one global object which having been blessed with existence, summarized the Divine Order(in the form of a divine spirit) so that there He could manifest His mystery to Himself.
The divine spirit has then been blown into Adam, and Adam became the light of this spirit. So by his existence, the world was completed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
As for the Angels, they represent the faculties of this Divine Order.

And what [/FONT][FONT=&quot]kylixguru is referring to (I THINK [/FONT][FONT=&quot] ) when he speaks about Alpha and Omega is[/FONT][FONT=&quot] in the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]temporal sense[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]for God cannot be called the First in the temporal sense, because then He would in that sense be the Last; but the possibilities of manifestation have no end: they are inexhaustible. If God is called the Last, it means that all reality returns finally to Him after having been brought to us: His quality of the Last is thus essentially His quality of First and inversely[/FONT]

 

[kylixguru]

Let's move the discussion about Adam elsewhere as I don't want this thread to get distracted.

Add: Here is a new thread for this purpose: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/scriptural-debates/139802-adam-alpha-omega.html

 

[FearGod]

Let's move the discussion about Adam elsewhere as I don't want this thread to get distracted.

i agree.

 

[sojourner]

Oh, I get it now. This is nothing more nor less than "Secret-(nonexistent)-bible-Code-for-Muslims."