The Qur'an allows sex-slaves...!?

[illykitty]

Yes the playboy magazine is a better book.

So, which Atheist claims it to be a perfect moral book revealed by god?

I think you need to take it into perspective. If you claim the Quran to be a perfect moral book from god, it's pretty much guaranteed that there's going to be at least one person who will criticise it. And that person will probably argue against it being perfect and moral. It's useless then to deflect and say something like you said above. Argue the points, don't deflect.

 

[FearGod]

So, which Atheist claims it to be a perfect moral book revealed by god?

I think you need to take it into perspective. If you claim the Quran to be a perfect moral book from god, it's pretty much guaranteed that there's going to be at least one person who will criticise it. And that person will probably argue against it being perfect and moral. It's useless then to deflect and say something like you said above. Argue the points, don't deflect.

No they don't discuss it but mocking about it, and i have the right to mock about their magazines as well.

 

[Raahim]

Are you sure about the NT?
Passage please.



And ancient Greece is well known for treating slaves like simple free employees, but that doesn’t mean that they weren’t slaves! Do not try to twist things to fit you. Slavery is slavery. Some treated their slaves badly others with compassion. But THEY ALL HAD SLAVES.

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. - 9:5

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. - 9:29
​

Will these do or you need more?



This thread is about Muslims and Islam. If you have a bone to pick with Atheists or any other religion, open a new thread. The “I did ‘this’ but you also did ‘that’” is a very childish argument.



Still alive and kicking, dear!

.

Wouldn't agree on that one with you & you're picking up verses out of context.

 

[illykitty]

No they don't discuss it but mocking about it, and i have the right to mock about their magazines as well.

"Their"? Who's "their"? Every Atheist loves strippers, playboy and such? That's quite a fallacy. And yes you have the right to mock it, I just find it strange that you do... I mean what's the purpose of doing so? It's not like every Atheist like these things, and it serves no purpose.

And I understand you're frustrated, but it's not really the way to go. You're only hurting yourself by saying things like that. Best to ignore the mocking and answer back to questions you feel are worth answering. Just friendly advice, take it or leave it.

 

[Sabour]

I am trying to understand your point but it seems you are still skirting to issue. Your quote in no way says to free all slaves in captivity, nor does it condemn slavery, it says to give up one of your slaves as compensation for harming a non-slave. Again you can't give up something you don't have in the first place.

Its not a problem of mine if you dont see the sequence between my and your replies. I was responding to a claim you did, but the the point has been lost in the conversations and by you not seeing the point.

You dont seem to understand the difference between supporting something and finding a solution for something. For you it seems they are both the same.

 

[Raahim]

This is maybe a little off-topic, but I love how people acknowledge that in the Bible the slavery is brutal, but hey let's focus on Islam & Qur'an because Islam.
I don't see why such big fuss about this topic, slavery is not so common today & mentally stable person is against it & surely won't want to revive it because his religion has rules on how you should treat your slave and free them.

 

[FearGod]

"Their"? Who's "their"? Every Atheist loves strippers, playboy and such? That's quite a fallacy. And yes you have the right to mock it, I just find it strange that you do... I mean what's the purpose of doing so? It's not like every Atheist like these things, and it serves no purpose.

And I understand you're frustrated, but it's not really the way to go. You're only hurting yourself by saying things like that. Best to ignore the mocking and answer back to questions you feel are worth answering. Just friendly advice, take it or leave it.

Yes i know that not all atheists love to have many girlfriends and to spend all the night in night clubs, alcohol and drugs,
i didn't even say so and no i'm not frustrated but just mocking their way of life, yes not all but most of them.

 

[Aquitaine]

I think slavery is ban by law in Muslim world.

as individaul acts does exist in both sides (West or Muslim world).

for Red Light District or strip clubs did not exist in Muslim world .

Yes, there are slaves being used in brothels all over the world - including muslim countries - but the same can be said for other industries such as fishing, manufacturing, cleaning (think maids), textiles, farming etc.
The industries themselves may not necessarily be bad, but the people who are smuggling slaves in to them are.

Oh and again: prostitution, alcohol misuse, gambling and affairs exist in muslim countries: you guys just hide it better than we do.

 

[Aquitaine]

This is maybe a little off-topic, but I love how people acknowledge that in the Bible the slavery is brutal, but hey let's focus on Islam & Qur'an because Islam.
I don't see why such big fuss about this topic, slavery is not so common today & mentally stable person is against it & surely won't want to revive it because his religion has rules on how you should treat your slave and free them.

I don't mind (and regularily engage in) bashing the bible, which in some aspects is even worse than the koran.

 

[Godobeyer]

Yes, there are slaves being used in brothels all over the world - including muslim countries - but the same can be said for other industries such as fishing, manufacturing, cleaning (think maids), textiles, farming etc.
The industries themselves may not necessarily be bad, but the people who are smuggling slaves in to them are.

Oh and again: prostitution, alcohol misuse, gambling and affairs exist in muslim countries: you guys just hide it better than we do.

indeed some workers humilate the workers (man or woman).

prostitution exist in Muslim countries , but not much like West or other countries.

How do you considere strip clubs,and Red Light District ?

 

[Raahim]

Oh and again: prostitution, alcohol misuse, gambling and affairs exist in muslim countries: you guys just hide it better than we do.

Of course, just because country is Muslim doesn't mean it's perfect. Just because someone is Muslim doesn't mean he or she is living 100% according to the Qur'an teachings, people are twisted. I have no information on what side has more of these things & I don't bother with it.

 

[Aquitaine]

Greet people well

And if you are greeted with a greeting, then return an even better greeting or return the same. God is Reckoning over all things - Quran 4:86

Humility

And be humble in how you walk and lower your voice. For the harshest of all voices is the voice of the donkeys. - Quran 31:19

Invite to your path with wisdom and good advice

Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and argue with them in that which is better. Your Lord is fully aware of who is misguided from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones. - Quran 16:125

Kindness to parents

And your Lord decreed that you shall not serve except He, and do good to your parents. When one of them or both of them reach old age, do not say to them a word of disrespect nor shout at them, but say to them a kind saying. And lower for them the wing of humility through mercy, and say: ‘My Lord, have mercy upon them as they have raised me when I was small. - Quran 17:23-24

Speak well with good words

Have you not seen how God puts forth the example that a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches are in the heaven. It bears its fruit every so often with the permission of its Lord; and God puts forth the examples for the people, perhaps they will remember. - Quran 14:24-25

Do not speak with bad words

And the example of a bad word is like a tree which has been uprooted from the surface of the earth, it has nowhere to settle. - Quran 14:26

Patience and mercy

And race towards forgiveness from your Lord and a Paradise whose width encompasses the width of the heavens and of the earth; it has been prepared for the righteous. The ones who spend in prosperity and adversity, and who repress anger, and who pardon the people; God loves the good doers. - Quran 3:133-134
Practice goodness against your enemy

Not equal are the good and the bad response. You shall resort to the one which is better. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend. - Quran 41:34

Do not be arrogant or insolent

And do not turn your cheek arrogantly from people, nor shall you roam the earth insolently. For God does not love the arrogant show off. - Quran 31:18

Humility and wisdom

And the servants of the Almighty who walk on the earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they say: ‘Peace. - Quran 25:63

Don’t insult those of other religions. Do not play God.

And do not insult those who call on other than God, lest they insult God out of ignorance. And We have similarly adorned for every nation their works; then to their Lord is their return and He will inform them of what they had done. - Quran 6:108

Do not mock others

O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.” - Quran 49:11

Do not practice suspicion and backbiting

O you who believe, you shall avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is sinful. And do not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite. Would any of you enjoy eating the flesh of his dead brother? You certainly would hate this. You shall observe God. God is Redeemer, Merciful. - Quran 49:12

No racism

O mankind, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honourable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.” - Quran
49:13

17:36 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.

Freedom of Creed
10:99 And had your Lord willed, all the people on the Earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make them believe?


Respect for individual privacy
24:27 O you who believe, do not enter any homes except your own unless you are invited and you greet the people in them. This is best for you, perhaps you will remember.


Equality
49:12 O you who believe, you shall avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is sinful. And do not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite. Would any of you enjoy eating the flesh of his dead brother? You certainly would hate this. You shall observe God. God is Redeemer, Merciful.
49:13 O mankind, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into
nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.


Welfare
30:38 So give the relative his due, and the poor, and the wayfarer. That is best for those who seek God's presence, and they are the successful ones.


No Usury
30:39 And any usury you have taken to grow from the people's money, it will not grow with God. And any contribution that you have placed seeking His presence, then those will be multiplied.
3:130 O you who believe, do not consume usury, compounding over and over; and reverence God that you may succeed.


Right to travel
29:56 "O My servants who believed, My Earth is spacious, so serve only Me."


No eternal/perpetual circulation of wealth (No Monopolization)
59:7 And whatever God provided to His messenger from the people of the townships,
then it shall be to God and His messenger, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain perpetual circulation by the rich among you. And you may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what
he withholds you from taking. And be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution.


''My four children will one day live in a nation, when they will not be judged by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character'' - Martin Luther King


No racism
49:13 O mankind, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.


No false slander. But you can stand up for your rights
148. Allah does not love the public mention of evil words, except by the one who has been wronged. And Allah is All-Hearing, All- Knowing.


Justice
42:39 And those who, when gross injustice befalls them, they seek justice.


Right to demand justice
42:41 And for any who demand action after being wronged, those are not committing any error.


No oppression.
42:42 The error is upon those who oppress the people, and they aggress in the land without cause. For these will be a painful retribution.


Right to borrowed property
4:58 God orders you to deliver anything you have been entrusted with to its owners. And if you judge between the people, then you shall judge with justice. It is always the best that God prescribes for you. God is Hearer, Seer.


Do not harm the environment
55:7 And He raised the heaven and He established the balance.
55:8 Do not transgress in the balance.


Innocence until proven guilty
24:11 Those who have brought forth the false accusation were a group from within you. Do not think it is bad for you, for it is good for you. Every person among them
will have what he deserves of the sin. And as for he who had the greatest portion of it, he will have a great retribution.


Punishment cannot exceed the gravity of the crime
16:126 And if you punish, then punish with equivalence to that which you were punished. And if you are patient then it is better for the patient ones.

You must fight on behalf of the weak
4:75 And why do you not fight in the cause of God, when the weak among the men and women and children say: “Our Lord, bring us out of this town whose people are wicked, and grant us from Yourself a Supporter, and grant us from Yourself a Victor!”


Charities to be used for just cause
9:60 The charities are to go to the poor, and the needy, and those who work to collect them, and those whose hearts have been united, and to free the slaves, and those in debt, and in the cause of God, and the wayfarer. A duty from God, and God is Knowledgeable, Wise.


You cannot kill unjustly
17:33 And do not kill, for God has made this forbidden, except in the course of justice. And whoever is killed innocently, then We have given his heir authority, so let him not transgress in the taking of a life, for He will be given victory.


Just cause to kill is aggression, but you are not allowed to be the aggressor.
2:190 And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not
transgress, God does not like the aggressors.
2:191 And kill them wherever you overcome them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the Sacred Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192 And if they cease, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
2:193 And fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is
God’s. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked.

Whos interpretation would we go on, and what about muslims wo disagree with the accepted interpretation?

 

[Aquitaine]

indeed some workers humilate the workers (man or woman).

prostitution exist in Muslim countries , but not much like West or other countries.

How do you considere strip clubs,and Red Light District ?

It would be interesting to compare the number of sex workers, though I doubt such records exist. :/

Strip Clubs and RLD? In theory they are supposed to be businesses providing sexual services in exchange for money, staffed by contracted sex workers who're there by their own free will; sadly it is not always the case though.

 

[Sabour]

I think you need to take it into perspective. If you claim the Quran to be a perfect moral book from god, it's pretty much guaranteed that there's going to be at least one person who will criticise it. And that person will probably argue against it being perfect and moral. It's useless then to deflect and say something like you said above. Argue the points, don't deflect.

I will keep that in mind


That is a very good advice

Best to ignore the mocking and answer back to questions you feel are worth answering.

why aren't all people on the forums like you

 

[Godobeyer]

It would be interesting to compare the number of sex workers, though I doubt such records exist. :/

I don't get your point , do you mean workers by gender ?
or prostitution Non-Muslim countries vs Muslim countires ?

Strip Clubs and RLD? In theory they are supposed to be businesses providing sexual services in exchange for money, staffed by contracted sex workers who're there by their own free will; sadly it is not always the case though.

I consider RLD and strip clubs a place of humilation the dignity of women , and they make dirty business by women body.

 

[Aquitaine]

I don't get your point , do you mean workers by gender ?
or prostitution Non-Muslim countries vs Muslim countires ?

I mean muslim vs. non-muslim.

I consider RLD and strip clubs a place of humilation the dignity of women , and they make dirty business by women body.

Fair enough. Though not everyone thinks of it that way: some enjoy being sex workers. What is your opinion on male prostitutes?

 

[Godobeyer]

I mean muslim vs. non-muslim.

I wish to ask someone non-Muslim (you trust) lived in Muslims country.

Fair enough. Though not everyone thinks of it that way: some enjoy being sex workers. What is your opinion on male prostitutes?

both are dirty (male or female prostitutes/stripclubs) , just the women are more victimes, incomparable to men.

 

[Aquitaine]

Yes i know that not all atheists love to have many girlfriends and to spend all the night in night clubs, alcohol and drugs,
i didn't even say so and no i'm not frustrated but just mocking their way of life, yes not all but most of them.

Since we're on the topic of generalizations, we in the west get plenty of young muslim men coming over here, guess what a lot of them do: take drugs, go to nightclubs and have many girlfriends.
Muslim royals even do it when they visit London: arrange parties with prostitutes and drugs whilst their Ferraris are parked outside the hotels. Of course, when they go back to thier home countries, they act all noble and prudish.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

So it does exist and the law will do nothing if the ones slaved don't want the law to intervene except if your society is free from the needy people.

That's your counter-argument? Seriously? Islam did not outlaw slavery but that doesn't matter because the West has outlawed it but isn't effective at tackling it because our law enforcement can only tackle the criminal elements they're aware of?

...

Un-****ing-believable.

 

[Aquitaine]

I wish to ask someone non-Muslim (you trust) lived in Muslims country.




both are dirty (male or female prostitutes/stripclubs) , just the women are more victimes, incomparable to men.

Anecdotal evidence isn't really the best way to get a truly accurate idea of something. Though I have a relative who has been to multiple middle-eastern countries and he says drug taking and homosexuality are quite common, though the muslims doing it pretend it doesn't exist.