THE QURAN.
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The Qur'an allows sex-slaves...!?
- Thread starter Nefelie
- Start date
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- Tags
- islam qur'an sex-slaves
Yes, thank the Gods. This is what I want. Firedragon won't give me any explanation.
firedragon
Veteran Member
No they were not. They were some one elses words.
Are you a Muslim or not? Do you disagree with Quran? With hadith? With what Muhammad did? With Muslim Scholars? What more do you seriously want?
Ugh.
Honesty.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Whats the website?
You can rest assured that the detractors did not get their verses from Muslim sources, otherwise they would have to have spent lots of time reading the Quran and other Muslim sources, which they did not. Rather I can assume they got their sources from anti Muslim websites as is usual for this sort of "debate".
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Slavery In Islam
The first thing we must know that Islam didnt create slavery. Slavery was already there. But why Islam didnt stop slavery? Or did it?
Why slavery in such time? There are many reasons
This is how things were at old times
1-* Both*financial and*social security. * When their country or tribe lost the war, they also lost most or all of their money as war booty.* Being out of money and food, it becomes necessary for an individual to find the means for basic survival in life.* Living as a slave would provide this.
2-* Protection from hostile individuals. * Even under the Islamic rule, you can still find hostile individuals who violate the Law and take matters into their own hands.* An enemy family can be sometime in danger if they don't have a "protector".
3-* Widows, Orphans, and the extremely poor*of the*enemy side need the financial and social protection from a Master.* Back then, there were no governments with good social system that protects everyone.* Slavery back then was that social system in special cases.
There are probably more points I can add, but I think these are sufficient enough
First of all let us look at a scenario where stopping slavery was done. It was done by Abraham Linclon. But did that solve the problem? I dont think because there was still hate between both sides. Liclon didnt deal with the problem; he dealt with the result of the problem. But I am not discrediting what he did at all. Linclon should have dealt with the problem of racism, slavery is just a result.
What is he Islamic stand of racism?
First thing I want to say about the subject is that racism was the first sin committed when satan refused to bow to Adam ( or in front of him)when Allah ordered him to. It wasnt the story of Eve telling Adam to eat from the tree.
Second, 49:13 O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.
Also The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), during his Last Sermon in Minâ, said: O people! Your Lord is one Lord, and you all share the same father. There is no preference for Arabs over non-Arabs, nor for non-Arabs over Arabs. Neither is their preference forwhite people*over*black people, nor for black people over white people. Preference is only through righteousness. Then he said: Have I conveyed the message? and the people declared that he had. [Musnad Ahmad*(22391)]
These hadith and verses are dealing with the problem, which is being racist.
Now let us look to how Islam dealt with slavery.
Remember Quraan was revealed like 1400 year ago, and imagine how things were to slaves at that time. Slaves were more like objects.
First, considering the treatment they were receiving, how did Islam approach this subject?
4:36 Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful.
76:5-9
5 Indeed, the righteous will drink from a cup [of wine] whose mixture is of Kafur, 6 A spring of which the [righteous] servants of Allah will drink; they will make it gush forth in force [and abundance].7 They [are those who] fulfill [their] vows and fear a Day whose evil will be widespread.8And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive,9[Saying], "We feed you only for the countenance of Allah . We wish not from you reward or gratitude.
Islam brought about a transformation in the situation. It taught that the slave was the brother of the master and that he had rights as well. The prophet commanded: They are your brothers and relatives! Let each one provide for the brother under him with the food that he himself eats and with the clothes that he himself wears. Place not upon them any task that is overbearing for them. If you do assign them a difficult task, you must help them in its execution. (Bukhari, Muslim)
Al-Bukhari reported that Abu Dharr and Bilal, the Abyssinian, both of whom were among the earliest Muslims, once quarreled and insulted each other. Carried away by his anger, Abu Dharr said to Bilal, "You son of a black woman!" Bilal complained about this to the Prophet (peace be on him), who turned to Abu Dharr, saying,*"Are you taunting him about his mother? There is still some influence of*jahiliyyah*in you!''*(Reported by al-Bukhari.)
(jahiliyyah means days of ignorance the arabs used to live)
Abu Dharr narrated that the Prophet (peace be on him) said to him,*"Look! You are no better than a white or black man unless you excel in the fear of Allah."
"Zadhan reported that Ibn Umar called his slave and he found the marks (of beating) upon his back. He said to him: I have caused you pain. He said: No. But he (Ibn Umar) said: You are free. He then took hold of something from the earth and said: There is no reward for me even to the weight equal to it. I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:*He who beats a slave without cognizable offence of his or*slaps him, then expiation for it is that he should set him free.***(Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4079)"
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:*"When the slave of anyone amongst you prepares food for him and he serves him after having sat close to (and undergoing the hardship of) heat and smoke,he should make him (the slave) sit along with him and make him eat (along with him), and if the food seems to run short, then he should spare some portion for him (from his own share)*- (another narrator) Dawud said:" i. e. a morsel or two". 4097. **(Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4096)"
Second, Islam provided means for freeing slaves and encouraged it
9:60 Zakah expenditures are only for the poor and for the needy and for those employed to collect [zakah] and for bringing hearts together [for Islam] and for freeing captives [or slaves] and for those in debt and for the cause of Allah and for the [stranded] traveler - an obligation [imposed] by Allah . And Allah is Knowing and Wise.
There are numerous sayings of the prophet which encourage the freeing of slaves. If anyone sets free a believing slave, each of his body parts will be set free from Hell so much so that it will be the hand for a hand, the leg for a right up to the sexual organ for the sexual organ. (Bukhari, Muslim)
In addition, setting a captive free was something muslims must do in some cases
4:92And never is it for a believer to kill a believer except by mistake. And whoever kills a believer by mistake - then the freeing of a believing slave and a compensation payment presented to the deceased's family [is required] unless they give [up their right as] charity. But if the deceased was from a people at war with you and he was a believer - then [only] the freeing of a believing slave; and if he was from a people with whom you have a treaty - then a compensation payment presented to his family and the freeing of a believing slave. And whoever does not find [one or cannot afford to buy one] - then [instead], a fast for two months consecutively, [seeking] acceptance of repentance from Allah . And Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
58:3 And those who pronounce thihar from their wives and then [wish to] go back on what they said - then [there must be] the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. That is what you are admonished thereby; and Allah is Acquainted with what you do.
5:89 Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for [breaking] what you intended of oaths. So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your [own] families or clothing them or the freeing of a slave. But whoever cannot find [or afford it] - then a fast of three days [is required]. That is the expiation for oaths when you have sworn. But guard your oaths. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be grateful.
90: 10-13
10 And have shown him the two ways? 11 But he has not broken through the difficult pass.12 And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass? 13 It is the freeing of a slave 14 Or feeding on a day of severe hunger 15An orphan of near relationship 16 Or a needy person in misery
So let us get the whole picture now.
Islam approach is first to direct people how they must treat their slaves. It is as if they were brothers. So there will be no harsh feeling towards each other. Second, Islam has made it clear that setting a slave free is among the good deeds and sometimes a must do. So muslims were basically going to slave markets and buying slaves so that they would set them free. Instant buying, and instant freeing. Fourth, Islam only took war captives when the enemy is taking war captives only.
So Islam dealt with the problem slowly and wisely. Besides, has Islam set the slaves free all at once it would have not been fair to some people. At that time, slaves were assets that anyone would invest in. It was normal. In addition, freeing them after such a horrible treatment was in place wouldn't be a good decision to take. Although slavery would have stopped, but there would also be tension and hate between the two sides given the treatment they were receiving prior to Islam.
So Islam didn't stand for slavery, it only gave it a new shape which ensured it was over. But that was done in steps and not all at once to avoid bad consequences.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Rival. You are a hoot.
Sorry if I made you go through such difficulty mate. I didnt mean to do that at all.
1st the verse said (Nefelies post) the word "sex". Its not there in that verse. I asked for the source, the source said something else.
You posted someones explanation. Not the Quran.
But now you have, so I will give you the answer.
It doesnt say sex. Nor does it say carnal desire. The word sex is found in some websites, mostly anti Islamic websites. We can be honest about it.
1st, the word there is Faraja. It means modesty or chastity.
The verse I was provided is
Who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond or (the captives) whom their right hands possess, for (in their case) they are free from blame.
Qur'an 23:5-6
Abstain from sex? Thats an absurd translation. Not even the most Hadith bound, slave mongering cleric will agree with that. Someone may have mislead us, but Rival, you have a brain, if you hear me out maybe you will see what it cant mean.
We must look at the Quranic context for rendition. Even if you wanna leave it as carnal desires as Dawood has cited in his translation, fine.
But he says slaves. Where in that verse does it say slaves?
"They are Guardians (Hafizhuna) of their Lifuroojihim (modesty) except with their Zawj (Wives) or Maa Malakut Aymanuhum (What Right hand possess).
What right hand possess does not mean slaves. It means who is promised to you, under oath, engaged, to you.
It does not talk about sex with slaves. Good God.
Which English translation of the Qur'an do you use? For debating with English people? Because all you're saying is 'your translation is wrong'. Is every English translation of the Qur'an wrong, by God?!?!
What right hand possess does not mean slaves. It means who is promised to you, under oath, engaged, to you.
What on earth does that mean? And how come no translation I've come across says anything like that? And why should I believe you over a published translation?
Sahih International: O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
Pickthall: O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Yusuf Ali: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Shakir: O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Muhammad Sarwar: Prophet, We have made lawful for you your wives whom you have given their dowry, slave girls whom God has given to you as gifts, the daughters of your uncles and aunts, both paternal and maternal, who have migrated with you. The believing woman, who has offered herself to the Prophet and whom the Prophet may want to marry, will be specially for him, not for other believers. We knew what to make obligatory for them concerning their wives and slave girls so that you would face no hardship (because we have given distinction to you over the believers). God is All-forgiving and All-merciful.
Mohsin Khan: O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), and those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses - whom Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your 'Amm (paternal uncles) and the daughters of your 'Ammah (paternal aunts) and the daughters of your Khal (maternal uncles) and the daughters of your Khalah (maternal aunts) who migrated (from Makkah) with you, and a believing woman if she offers herself to the Prophet, and the Prophet wishes to marry her; a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers. Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives and those (captives or slaves) whom their right hands possess, - in order that there should be no difficulty on you. And Allah is Ever OftForgiving, Most Merciful.
Arberry: O Prophet, We have made lawful for thee thy wives whom thou hast given their wages and what thy right hand owns, spoils of war that God has given thee, and the daughters of thy uncles paternal and aunts paternal, thy uncles maternal and aunts maternal, who have emigrated with thee, and any woman believer, if she give herself to the Prophet and if the Prophet desire to take her in marriage, for thee exclusively, apart from the believers -- We know what We have imposed upon them touching their wives and what their right hands own -- that there may be no fault in thee; God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.
No translation agrees with you.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Of course you wont believe me mate. But can you see that the translations you used says sex and slave? The verses does not say that.
First I will prove that the translations you provided are wrong.
23:5 you said Sex. And Dawood says Carnal desires.
Thats bias. You understand that the word for sex there must have been used in other verses in the Quran right? That is the Quranic context.
24:30 Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and maintain their chastity. This is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do.
24:31 And tell the believing females to lower their gaze and maintain their chastity; and they should not reveal their beauty except
what is apparent.
The word. Furujahum Furujahunna. Same word. It cannot be replaced by the word sex.
Do you at least see that the translations you provided are bias? It means modesty, thats why the verse above says not reveal their beauty or adornments.
Do you agree with that?
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Neat, let's defend a self-proclaimed objective morality with yet more what-aboutery. Because that's not inconsistent at all... [/sarcasm].
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
You were saying?
Sahih International: O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
Pickthall: O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Yusuf Ali: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Shakir: O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Muhammad Sarwar: Prophet, We have made lawful for you your wives whom you have given their dowry, slave girls whom God has given to you as gifts, the daughters of your uncles and aunts, both paternal and maternal, who have migrated with you. The believing woman, who has offered herself to the Prophet and whom the Prophet may want to marry, will be specially for him, not for other believers. We knew what to make obligatory for them concerning their wives and slave girls so that you would face no hardship (because we have given distinction to you over the believers). God is All-forgiving and All-merciful.
Mohsin Khan: O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), and those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses - whom Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your 'Amm (paternal uncles) and the daughters of your 'Ammah (paternal aunts) and the daughters of your Khal (maternal uncles) and the daughters of your Khalah (maternal aunts) who migrated (from Makkah) with you, and a believing woman if she offers herself to the Prophet, and the Prophet wishes to marry her; a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers. Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives and those (captives or slaves) whom their right hands possess, - in order that there should be no difficulty on you. And Allah is Ever OftForgiving, Most Merciful.
Arberry: O Prophet, We have made lawful for thee thy wives whom thou hast given their wages and what thy right hand owns, spoils of war that God has given thee, and the daughters of thy uncles paternal and aunts paternal, thy uncles maternal and aunts maternal, who have emigrated with thee, and any woman believer, if she give herself to the Prophet and if the Prophet desire to take her in marriage, for thee exclusively, apart from the believers -- We know what We have imposed upon them touching their wives and what their right hands own -- that there may be no fault in thee; God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.
No translation agrees with you.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Sahih International: O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
Pickthall: O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Yusuf Ali: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Shakir: O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Muhammad Sarwar: Prophet, We have made lawful for you your wives whom you have given their dowry, slave girls whom God has given to you as gifts, the daughters of your uncles and aunts, both paternal and maternal, who have migrated with you. The believing woman, who has offered herself to the Prophet and whom the Prophet may want to marry, will be specially for him, not for other believers. We knew what to make obligatory for them concerning their wives and slave girls so that you would face no hardship (because we have given distinction to you over the believers). God is All-forgiving and All-merciful.
Mohsin Khan: O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), and those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses - whom Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your 'Amm (paternal uncles) and the daughters of your 'Ammah (paternal aunts) and the daughters of your Khal (maternal uncles) and the daughters of your Khalah (maternal aunts) who migrated (from Makkah) with you, and a believing woman if she offers herself to the Prophet, and the Prophet wishes to marry her; a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers. Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives and those (captives or slaves) whom their right hands possess, - in order that there should be no difficulty on you. And Allah is Ever OftForgiving, Most Merciful.
Arberry: O Prophet, We have made lawful for thee thy wives whom thou hast given their wages and what thy right hand owns, spoils of war that God has given thee, and the daughters of thy uncles paternal and aunts paternal, thy uncles maternal and aunts maternal, who have emigrated with thee, and any woman believer, if she give herself to the Prophet and if the Prophet desire to take her in marriage, for thee exclusively, apart from the believers -- We know what We have imposed upon them touching their wives and what their right hands own -- that there may be no fault in thee; God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.
No translation agrees with you.
You have provided the arabic words. Ask anyone who can read Arabic, it does not say spoils of war, captives etc. They are interpolations.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
So if it doesn't say any of these things, why are Muslim translators putting it there? Of what possible benefit could it be? Why do they want to crap on their own holy text? Give me a break.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Mate. Since you dont intend to know, i shall refrain, and Ill give you a break.
So even your religion did not ban slavery?
Did your religion encourage to free slaves as Islam?
How you explain that slavery in (in general) Muslims world is not exist anymore ?
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
FIFY
I do want to know. I'm practically pissing myself.
Why would Muslims like Yusuf Ali translate their scriptures wrong?