The qur'an

[Autodidact]

Slavery still exist today, call it slavery or choose not to call it, and it is even worse than slavery.

Slavery exists today especially in Muslim countries.

First, do you want to talk about Islam or Muslims ?

Don't you think there's a connection?

Secondly, I'm not from Arabs.

The World's slave trade has historically been carried out by Arab Muslims.

thirdly, you can also and honestly document the horrible, tragic history of the European or .... or .Atlantic.... slave trade?

Feel free. What does it have to do with the perfect, noble qur'an? Are you trying to justify that their evil somehow justifies Islamic evil? Although, that slave trade mostly consisted of buying slaves from Muslims who had captured them, you know that? In any case, it wasn't any worse than Muslim slavery, and in some ways better.

 

[Autodidact]

Do you think that is right or wrong? In your view?

Wrong.

Slavery is wrong. The qur'an permits slavery. Therefore the qur'an is wrong.

What wrong with this logic?

 

[SLAMH]

A novel approach but one that simply doesn't work. Muslims are supposed to be the best of mankind. The favored of Allah.

No, if they aren't doing good things and if they aren't following the Qur'an, then they aren't.

I remember one saying, I think it would be translated as,

" God would give Victory to a state in which justice is implemented even if it was ruled by infidels, and equally God would let down unjust state even if it was ruled by Muslims ".

Personally, I have one Christian friend whom I enjoy his company more than I do with some other Muslims friends.

You do not do yourself any favors by comparing the much longer history of slavery practiced by Muslims to the shorter period of slavery practiced by non-Muslims.

No to argue over this, but I don't see this to be the case. The point is that not only Muslims have done it.

 

[SLAMH]

Muslims should make war against non-Muslim countries and conquer them, in order to force Islam on the entire country. Those who do not convert (if they are "people of the book") may accept dhimmitude, submit to Muslim authority and pay the jizzya.

the jizzya is like a Taxes, and it is kept in Muslims house of money "Bit Al-Mal", and this money is used to help the people of country whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims. And by the way even Muslims have to pay taxes, but it is called zkaka.

I can bring up some examples if you want ?

Muslim conquerors may kill their opponents or enslave them, at their option. They usually chose to kill the men and enslave the women. If a person who is already a slave converts to Islam, this does not emancipate them.

Back up this .

 

[SLAMH]

What rule is that? This is not correct. Slavery is permissible, and their is no rule that requires slaves to be freed. So what are you talking about? Also, their children are slaves as well.

Asking a question and answering it at the same time, so why did you ask it ?

Anyway, I will respond to this later.

 

[SLAMH]

Slavery exists today especially in Muslim countries.

True, but I'm not referring to this one.

Don't you think there's a connection?

No.

The World's slave trade has historically been carried out by Arab Muslims.

This irrelevant.

Feel free. What does it have to do with the perfect, noble qur'an? Are you trying to justify that their evil somehow justifies Islamic evil? Although, that slave trade mostly consisted of buying slaves from Muslims who had captured them, you know that? In any case, it wasn't any worse than Muslim slavery, and in some ways better.

Ok, this just a complete step out of the topic.

 

[SLAMH]

Slavery is wrong. The qur'an permits slavery. Therefore the qur'an is wrong.

What wrong with this logic?

Actually I was referring to this part,

However, their children remain slaves, and may be bought and sold.

 

[Autodidact]

No, if they aren't doing good things and if they aren't following the Qur'an, then they aren't.

But owning slaves is following the Qur'an, isn't it?

Personally, I have one Christian friend whom I enjoy his company more than I do with some other Muslims friends.

Doesn't this violate the Qur'an?

 

[Autodidact]

Back up this .

Lawful enslavement was restricted to two instances: capture in war (on the condition that the prisoner is not a Muslim), or birth in slavery. [wiki]

Though a free Muslim could not be enslaved, conversion to Islam by a non-Muslim slave did not require that he or she then should be liberated. Slave status was not affected by conversion to Islam. [Lewis, Bernard (1990). Race and Slavery in the Middle East. New York: Oxford University Press.p.9]

In theory free-born Muslims could not be enslaved, and the only way that a non-Muslim could be enslaved was being captured in the course of holy war.[Sikainga, Ahmad A. (1996). Slaves Into Workers: Emancipation and Labor in Colonial Sudan. University of Texas Press. ]


Bukhari: [FONT=&quot]Vol. 5-#512 Narrated Anas: ".....The prophet had their warriors killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives...."
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Vol. 5-Chapter 67 Narrated Ibn Ishaq: The Ghazwa (attack upon) Uyaina bin

Hisn waged against Banu Al-Anbar, a branch of Banu Tamim. The prophet sent Uyaina to raid them. He raided them and killed some of them and took some others as captives.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
In the Sirat Rasulallah, Muhammad massacred 800 males and took their women and children as slaves. He kept at least one Jewish female named Rayhana as his concubine, and gave the rest away to the Muslims. The Sirat says (p466) "Then the apostle divided the property, wives, and children of Banu Qurayza among the Muslims....[/FONT]

Traditional Islamic law (fiqh) elaborates significantly on the Qur’anic material concerning slavery. The enslavement of war captives is regulated, along with the purchase and sale of slaves. While it is not permissible to enslave other Muslims, the jurists clarify that if a non-Muslim converts to Islam after enslavement, he or she remains a slave and may be lawfully purchased and sold like any other slave.
[Islam and Slavery]

"Slavery is a part of Islam. Slavery is part of jihad, and jihad will remain as long there is Islam."
[Al Fawzan – Sheik Saleh Al-Fawzan a member of the Senior Council of Clerics, Saudi Arabia's highest religious body]


Let me know if you want more.

​

 

[Autodidact]

No.

You don't think there's any connection between Islam and Muslims? R U serious?

 

[Autodidact]

Actually I was referring to this part,

Lawful enslavement was restricted to two instances: capture in war (on the condition that the prisoner is not a Muslim), or birth in slavery. [wiki]

 

[MathewJames]

[FONT=&quot]Hisn waged against Banu Al-Anbar, a branch of Banu Tamim. The prophet sent Uyaina to raid them. He raided them and killed some of them and took some others as captives.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the Sirat Rasulallah, Muhammad massacred 800 males and took their women and children as slaves. He kept at least one Jewish female named Rayhana as his concubine, and gave the rest away to the Muslims. The Sirat says (p466) "Then the apostle divided the property, wives, and children of Banu Qurayza among the Muslims....[/FONT]

George Bush waged war against how many countries, killed how many, and took how many prisoners in the name of what ????

Why is it that the strongest country in the world can go around kicking the blank out of anyone they want and it is accepted.

Please, if your going to put stats up on Muslims, make sure you add the Christian stats next to them.

 

[YmirGF]

Please, if your going to put stats up on Muslims, make sure you add the Christian stats next to them.

I keep forgetting that two wrongs makes a right.

 

[MathewJames]

I keep forgetting that two wrongs makes a right.

Not even close to the point.

 

[MathewJames]

I keep forgetting that two wrongs makes a right.

or maybe, you were being sarcastic.

 

[Autodidact]

George Bush waged war against how many countries, killed how many, and took how many prisoners in the name of what ????

Why is it that the strongest country in the world can go around kicking the blank out of anyone they want and it is accepted.

Please, if your going to put stats up on Muslims, make sure you add the Christian stats next to them.

You missed my point entirely. These quotes are to show what the qur'anic/Muslim view of slavery is, specifically, to support the assertions that I made previously, and which SLAMH asked me to support. That is, Islamic jurisprudence commands Muslims to conquer non-Muslim countries, kill their opponents, subdue the land and bring it under Islamic rule, and take captives. Also that the common practice was to kill the men and take the women captive. That's my point.

 

[MathewJames]

You missed my point entirely. These quotes are to show what the qur'anic/Muslim view of slavery is, specifically, to support the assertions that I made previously, and which SLAMH asked me to support. That is, Islamic jurisprudence commands Muslims to conquer non-Muslim countries, kill their opponents, subdue the land and bring it under Islamic rule, and take captives. Also that the common practice was to kill the men and take the women captive. That's my point.

You made your point.

 

[Autodidact]

What does the qur'an say about Jews?

Verse 5:51 "O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them.

2:96 And you will most certainly find them [Jews] the greediest of men for life (greedier) than even those who are polytheists; every one of them loves that he should be granted a life of a thousand years, and his being granted a long life will in no way remove him further off from the chastisement, and Allah sees what they do.

4:52 It is they (Jews and Christians) whom Allah has cursed;

4:160 Because of the wrongdoing of the Jews We forbade them good things which were (before) made lawful unto them, and because of their much hindering from Allah's way,

5:13 So We cursed them (Jews) because of them constantly breaking their covenant, and hardened their hearts; they shift the Words of Allah from their places, and have forgotten a large portion of the advices that were given to them; and you will constantly learn of deceits from them, except a few...

5:59 Say, "O People given the Book(s)! [=Jews and Christians] What do you dislike in us - except that we believe in Allah and what is sent down to us and what was sent down before, and because most of you are disobedient?"

5:64 The Jews say: "Allah's hand is tied up." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter.

5:70 We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them messengers, every time, there came to them a messenger with what they themselves desired not - some (of these) they called impostors, and some they (go so far as to) slay.

7:166-167 Consequently when they (Jews) rebelled against the command to refrain, We said to them, "Be apes, despised!"
And remember when your Lord announced the command that till the Day of Resurrection I will certainly send such oppressors against them, who will inflict them with a dreadful punishment; indeed your Lord is swift in meting out punishment; and indeed He is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful.

9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

9:30 And the Jews said, "Uzair is the son of Allah", and the Christians said "The Messiah is the son of Allah"; they utter this from their own mouths; they speak like the former disbelievers; may Allah kill them; where are they reverting!

This is the guidance that God has given Muslims concerning Jews--they are evil, perverse and cursed. Muslims should not be friends with them, but should fight, kill and conquer them.

 

[A-ManESL]

That is, Islamic jurisprudence commands Muslims to conquer non-Muslim countries, kill their opponents, subdue the land and bring it under Islamic rule, and take captives.

That is not what Islamic jurisprudence commands. It is what you wrongly think Islam teaches.

 

[A-ManESL]

This is the guidance that God has given Muslims concerning Jews--they are evil, perverse and cursed. Muslims should not be friends with them, but should fight, kill and conquer them.

This is your usual bias showing again. Why dont you quote verses which speak favorably of Jews as well and let the reader read them all and judge for him/herself. I think since verses such as 2:62, 5:69 dont suit your agenda you deliberately dont post them here.