The Rapture

[URAVIP2ME]

Do you have a verse and chapter on this?

Where was Jesus' friend of John chapter eleven resurrected?
John 5vs 28,29 mentions not to marvel for the hour is coming [Acts 24v15] when the dead in the graves will hear his voice and come forth.

Jesus gives the 'little flock' the kingdom.
- Luke 12v32; 22vs28,29; Daniel 7v18,27
The 'other sheep' of John 10v16 are not part of the little flock fold.

The dead in union with Christ rise first,- [1 Thess 4v16B]
First implies more to follow.
So even those that never heard of Christ, or died before Christ [Acts 2v34; Matthew 11v11] will have a resurrection but not to heavenly life [Rev 5vs9,10; 20v6] but on earth.

 

[james2ko]

First of all, the gospel of Mark ends at 16v8.
After verse 8 the style of writing changes, there are no corresponding verses or passages as there is with the rest of Scripture, Jerome and Eusebius believed Mark ended at verse 8, and original manuscripts end with verse 8.

So are you implying everything written after verse 8 is not inspired? Even if that was the case, there are plenty of other verses that state we must believe in Jesus and the gospel in order to be saved. Mar 1:15; John 1:12; John 3:15-16; John 3:18; John 3:36; Acts 10:43. There are many more but you get the point.

Even 2nd Peter [3v9 B] says God is not willing any should perish [be destroyed], but that 'all' should come to repent.

So it is God's will that all should obey him. Since all do Not that is why Matthew [20v28] says 'many' and not all. Jesus ransom sacrifice covers 'many' not all.

So even though Jesus died for all [1st John 1v7b] Not all obey Jesus.
Some even commit the unforgivable sin- Matt 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6.

Please notice at the time of Jesus 'glory', [Matt 25vs31,32] which corresponds to the harvest time of Jesus illustration of the Wheat and Weeds [tares],
Jesus separates the sheep from the goats. Only the sheep-like people remain alive and keep right on living right into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth when Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

Psalm 92v7; 37vs11, 29, 38; Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30

I understand all of this but you did not answer the question. If God wishes none to perish, and If believing in Jesus and the gospel is the only way by which we may be saved, what happens to those who lived and died before Christ was born? Or those, after Christ, who did not or have not-- due to extenuating circumstances, like living in the middle of the amazon-- had an opportunity to hear the Gospel message?

 

[smokydot]

Yes, agree 'Jesus has the archangel's voice' with the trumpet call of God.
That scenario is describing resurrection to heaven. -Rev 20v6.
[Jesus also used a loud voice at John 11v43]

Since flesh and blood [perfect or imperfect] can not inherit God's kingdom then Just like Jesus resurrection that was in the spirit, not flesh, so too those of Rev 20v6 will also be resurrected to the spirit realm.

That is a misunderstanding of Paul's terminology. See post #192 for use of "flesh and blood" and "spiritual."
You are misusing them here.

 

[smokydot]

Yes, agree 'Jesus has the archangel's voice' with the trumpet call of God.
That scenario is describing resurrection to heaven. -Rev 20v6.
[Jesus also used a loud voice at John 11v43]

In the same situation.

Like when a plane goes into the clouds it become invisible to the eye.
So in the same way the 'clouds of invisibility' block the human eye from seeing.

'All' [Christ's brothers Mt25v40] will be taken to heaven [Rev5vs9,10]
They will not sleep in death. Spend any time in death, but be changed from the physical to the spiritual as Jesus was upon his resurrection in the spirit.

There is a difference between not dying and not spending time in death.
They die but spend no time in death.

Since death frees or acquits sinners [Rom 6v7] then Jesus 'brothers' being sinners will have to pay the price tag of sin [Rom 6v23] which according to Scripture is: 'death'. Die before being raised to their heavenly reward.
They just do not spend time in death such as does Daniel 12vs2,13.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The rapture has to be the most piddly thing in pseudo-Christian theology that one can argue.

If one is arguing for specifics - one view of the rapture versus another - neither side has the vocabulary needed to contribute to the conversation.

We need to be focused more on the teachings of Christ and Paul than obscure, very late misinterpretations of Scripture.

That is, it's much more difficult to live out the teachings of Christ and think through the actual teachings of Paul and the early church than it is to lazily banter about made-up things like the "rapture."

 

[smokydot]

Yes, agree 'Jesus has the archangel's voice' with the trumpet call of God.
That scenario is describing resurrection to heaven. -Rev 20v6.
[Jesus also used a loud voice at John 11v43]

He used a loud voice in Jn 11:43, which was the same situation--to command the dead to come forth from the grave.

Since flesh and blood [perfect or imperfect] can not inherit God's kingdom then Just like Jesus resu
rrection that was in the spirit, not flesh, so too those of Rev 20v6 will also be resurrected to the spirit realm.

"Flesh and Blood," "Spiritual":

A) You misunderstand Paul's use of the terms "flesh and blood" and "spiritual" in 1 Cor.
1) "flesh and blood" here means the perishable, corrupt, weak, sinful physical body.
This is the flesh and blood that cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

2) "spiritual" in Paul's usage never means the non-physical, non-material, non-corporeal.
It always means the domain of the Holy Spirit.

"Resurrection":

B) You likewise misunderstand the NT usage of "resurrection." The NT meaning of resurrection is to rise from death to life.
There are two resurrections in the NT:

1) The first resurrection at rebirth (Jn 3:3,7; 1 Pe 1:3,23; Titus 3:5; Jas 1:18)--where those who by nature are born objects of God's wrath (Eph 2:3) and spiritually dead in sin because of Adam's transgression (Ro 5:18), are raised (resurrected) from that spiritual death (Col 2:12) and given eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ.
Baptism is closely linked (Rom 6:4) with this spiritual resurrection (of one's dead spirit), where the old man (inner spiritually dead man, synonymous with sinful nature, body of sin) dies with Christ and the new man (inner spiritually alive man) rises to a new life in Christ (Ro 6:11).
This is the first resurrection of Rev 20:6.

Jesus did not rise "in the spirit" because his spirit (the Holy Spirit) was not dead.
Nor was his resurrection a spiritual (in your usage, meaning non-physical) resurrection rather than a physical resurrection,
because the term "spiritual" in Paul's usage never means non-physical, it always means the domain of the Holy Spirit.
There is only one resurrection for Jesus; i.e., resurrection of his physical body. His spirit (the Holy Spirit) was never dead, as were our spirits.

2) The second resurrection at the second coming of Christ--where all those in the grave will come forth at the physical resurrrection of their bodies upon the loud command of Jesus (Jn 5:28-29).
After his redemptive work was completed, Christ was the first to rise physically from the dead.
You are denying much of the NT written record when you maintain Jesus' resurrection was not "in flesh," for that record clearly shows he rose "in flesh."
[NB: The second death is the lake of fire. The first death is the death of our spirit, into which spiritual death we were born. (Col 2:13)]

Like when a plane goes into the clouds it become invisible to the eye.
So in the same way the 'clouds of invisibility' block the human eye from seeing.

Not according to the NT.

'All' [Christ's brothers Mt25v40] will be taken to heaven [Rev5vs9,10]
They will not sleep in death. Spend any time in death, but be changed from the physical to the spiritual as Jesus was upon his resurrection in the spirit.

Your misunderstanding of Paul's usage of "spiritual" (above) is resulting in you seriously contradicting what the NT plainly says.

We were changed to the "spiritual" [which always means the domain of the Holy Spirit, and never means non-physical] when our dead spirits were born again into eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ (as explained above).

There is a difference between not dying and not spending time in death.
They die but spend no time in death. Since death frees or acquits sinners [Rom 6v7] then Jesus 'brothers' being sinners will have to pay the price tag of sin [Rom 6v23] which according to Scripture is: 'death'. Die before being raised to their heavenly reward.
They just do not spend time in death such as does Daniel 12vs2,13.

The death that Paul is speaking of which "frees or acquits sinners" is the death of our unregenerate self, the self in its pre-Christian state, dominated by sin.
This death of our old self occurred when we came to faith in Jesus Christ and were, thereby, crucified to sin with him, as he was crucified for sin. (Ro 6:6)

And then you're confusing NT physical death of one's body with NT spiritual death of one's spirit.

One's physical body dies and remains in death until the second coming of Christ.
One's living spirit, made alive again at its rebirth by faith in Jesus Christ, does not die with the body, but is then at home with the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[smokydot]

The "rapture" is a modern fantasy invented by a 17th Puritan preacher who was involved in the Salem Witch Trials.

It was then popularized in the Great Awakenings in the United States in the 19th and 20th centuries.

It has nothing to do with the Bible or Christianity - it was invented and popularized as a modern form of escapism encased in evangelical nonsense.

The rapture is Biblical--1 Th 4:17 ("meet the Lord in the air"), and occurs at the second coming of Christ at the end of time.

The "premillennial" thing is as you say, fantasy. . .and leads to proposed bizarre scenarios worthy of Steven Spielberg.


note:

Rapture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/quote]

 

[smokydot]

Right. The dead called to heaven will not spend time sleeping in their death but will be changed right away at their death. They are part of the earlier or first resurrection of Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10. They are not part of those 'delivered up' [later resurrected] of Rev 20vs13,14.

This reflects misunderstanding of the resurrectionn of our bodies and the resurrection of our spirits, explained in my post #227.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The rapture is Biblical--1 Th 4:17 ("meet the Lord in the air"), and occurs at the second coming of Christ at the end of time.

The "premillennial" thing is as you say, fantasy. . .and leads to proposed bizarre scenarios worthy of Steven Spielberg.

It's the single worst doctrine in modern Protestantism.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The rapture is Biblical--1 Th 4:17 ("meet the Lord in the air"), and occurs at the second coming of Christ at the end of time.

The "premillennial" thing is as you say, fantasy. . .and leads to proposed bizarre scenarios worthy of Steven Spielberg.

It should tell you something when the "rapture" or any form of millenialism appears in no church father and no Orthodox Church with historical ties to the apostles: the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox, and the Roman Catholic.

Heck, the Reformers didn't even teach it.

 

[smokydot]

According to Scripture the dead really do die.
[Ecc 9v5; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; John 11vs11-14]
Isn't Adam dead?
Adam had no life before he was created on earth.
At death Adam had no life anywhere.

Doesn't Acts 24v15 says future tense there is going to be a resurrection.

Those of Jesus 'brothers' [Matt 25v40; 1Cor 15v50] are called to immortal heavenly life.
Those that died before Jesus do not go to heaven, but await an earthly resurrection as the prophet Daniel looked forward [12vs2,13].

Jesus 'brothers' go to heaven when they are resurrected.
Except for those of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6, the rest of mankind is offered by Jesus: 'everlasting life'.

Please notice that Adam was offered, not immortality, but everlasting life.
There is a difference. Everlasting life does not have life from within [immortal] but everlasting life is dependent on besides obedience, but like Adam to continue to breathe, eat, sleep, etc. So when Jesus says eternal life or everlasting life he not necessarily offering immortality, but the same offer as was originally extended to Adam at the time of his creation.

So the resurrected ones to heaven [Rev 20v6] are part of the earlier of 'first' resurrection and they put on immortality. Those that are resurrected later do not put on immortality but can gain eternal or everlasting life in human perfection of sound mind and body with the prospect of living forever right here on a paradisaic earth.

Do the living sheep-like people of Matthew 25v32 die ?

You have really garbled spiritual and physical resurrection.
See my post #227 for clarification of these terms and events.

 

[smokydot]

According to Scripture the dead really do die.
[Ecc 9v5; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; John 11vs11-14]
Isn't Adam dead?
Adam had no life before he was created on earth.
At death Adam had no life anywhere.

Doesn't Acts 24v15 says future tense there is going to be a resurrection.

Those of Jesus 'brothers' [Matt 25v40; 1Cor 15v50] are called to immortal heavenly life.
Those that died before Jesus do not go to heaven, but await an earthly resurrection as the prophet Daniel looked forward [12vs2,13].

Jesus 'brothers' go to heaven when they are resurrected.
Except for those of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6, the rest of mankind is offered by Jesus: 'everlasting life'.

Please notice that Adam was offered, not immortality, but everlasting lifeThere is a difference. Everlasting life does not have life from within [immortal] but everlasting life is dependent on besides obedience, but like Adam to continue to breathe, eat, sleep, etc. So when Jesus says eternal life or everlasting life he not necessarily offering immortality, but the same offer as was originally extended to Adam at the time of his creation.

So the resurrected ones to heaven [Rev 20v6] are part of the earlier of 'first' resurrection and they put on immortality. Those that are resurrected later do not put on immortality but can gain eternal or everlasting life in human perfection of sound mind and body with the prospect of living forever right here on a paradisaic earth.

Do the living sheep-like people of Matthew 25v32 die ?

This is some serious misunderstanding of the NT.

You have really garbled immortality and eternal life.

 

[smokydot]

Think: What is the price that sin pays? Isn't it death? Rom 6v23; 6v7
Since all are sinners all deserve death.
Only 'Death' stamps the price tag of sin as: Paid in Full.

The sheep-like people of Matt 25 v32 do just keep alive as people on earth.
But those 'brothers' of verse 40 can not take their flesh to heaven.
1st Cor 15v50

Everlasting life is offered to all that will live on earth either by salvation though the 'great tribulation' or via earthly resurrection. -Acts 24v15

Jesus 'brothers' are offered immortality.
Immortality means having life from within.
Whereas everlasting life is different.
Eternal life not only depends on obedience but also on continuing to breathe, eat, sleep, etc. like Adam had to do.

So those that are offered immortality in the heaven can only get there by leaving behind a fleshly body. 1 Cor 15v50.
They need to be 'caught up' in the clouds as Jesus was 'caught up'.
Jesus was 'caught up' after his resurrection.

Your garbling of the NT's meaning is producing fantasy.

 

[smokydot]

URAVIP2ME said:

Yes there is going to be a resurrection as Acts 24v15 says.
Jesus 'brothers' [Matt 25v40;1Cor 15v50] receive a resurrection at death to heaven. [go to or ascend]
Those that are Not part of Jesus 'brothers' that do not live through the great tribulation Rev 7v14 will also be resurrected. Resurrected during Jesus 1000-year reign over earth to be part of Jesus promise that the humble meek will inherit earth. Psalm 37vs11,29.

Except for those of Matt 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6, those in Christ will be make alive. That does not necessarily mean immortal or indestructible.
Was Adam destructible?
We know he was destructible because Adam is no longer with us.
Only if Adam obeyed could Adam live.
Adam was not immortal.
Adam was never offered immortality [indestructible] but Adam was offered: everlasting life. Everlasting life on earth[not heaven] was offered to mankind.

Jesus also offered everlasting life. That would mean the same offer that originally was offered to Adam at creation. During Jesus 1000-year reign over earth people will have the prospect of living forever if obedient to God.
Those faithful not resurrected to heaven will be resurrected on earth.
The difference:
Those 'brothers' taken to heaven put on indestructible immortality.
Those living on earth must continue to breathe, eat, sleep, etc. besides be obedient or loose everlasting life.

The physical world was not offered immortality.
The physical world is dependent on external forces to keep on living.
So although similar [immortal/ eternal life] there is a dependency difference.

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. Jn 17:3

Your understanding of "eternal life" and "immortality" are not found in the NT.
You are forcing the NT into the meaning of some other system, and are doing it violence in the process.

 

[smokydot]

It should tell you something when the "rapture" or any form of millenialism appears in no church father and no Orthodox Church with historical ties to the apostles: the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox, and the Roman Catholic.

Heck, the Reformers didn't even teach it.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The rapture and pre-, post- and millennial are not the same thing.
The rapture is Biblical, the "millennial" thing is not.

I find the rapture all the way back to 1714.

 

[AK4]

The rapture is Biblical--1 Th 4:17 ("meet the Lord in the air"), and occurs at the second coming of Christ at the end of time.

Did you read the post i posted about the rapture that IF there were to be a rapture it would be a rapture of the wicked. As for the "meet the Lord in the air", if you want to know what this means try looking for what the Word says is in the "air" and you will get the meaning of what the Word means to being caught up with the Lord in the air. It doesnt mean rapture though.

 

[smokydot]

You need to make up your mind, URAVIP2ME. First you say "Right. The dead called to heaven will not spend time sleeping in their death but will be changed right away at their death. " And now in another breath you say "future tense there is going to be a resurrection". Do you see the contradiction? Theres no need for a resurrection if these people are already alive in heaven.

Now i know where you are headed in your argument so configure your reasonings with this: Paul "one of Jesus' brothers" realised the he will SLEEP and await the resurrection.

Actually, Paul didn't think that he, personally, would be asleep at the second coming, because he thought it would occur during his lifetime.
At the second coming of Jesus at the end of time (2 Th 1:7-8), note where Paul locates himself (2 Th 1:7-10).
He does not locate himself coming from heaven with Jesus (1 Th 4:14),** but on earth, waiting for relief when Jesus comes in judgment:

"He. . .will give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.
He will punish those who do not know God, and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ (e.g., Mk 1:15, Ac 17:30)."
So. . .both relief and judgment come at the same time. . .and the time is near (Ro 13:11-12).

[**1Th 4:15: "According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep."]

In 2 Th 1:6-10, Paul locates the rapture (v.7) with Jesus' coming in judgment (v.8) at the end of time. He does the same in 2 Th 2:1,2,8.
The NT writers believed that Jesus would soon be coming in judgment (Php 4:5; 1 Tim 6:14; Heb 10:25,37; Jas 5:8-9; 1 Pe 4:7; 1 Jn 2:18).
And so Paul does not see himself asleep, but alive on earth at the second coming of Jesus Christ at the end of time (1 Th 4:15, 2 Th 1:7),
when God brings with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him (1 Th 4:14), because he thought it would all occur during his lifetime.

Edit: The significance of this is that it shows Paul did not believe in a rapture seven years before the second coming, unless he thought he was "left behind" and would have to catch the next ride seven years later. (This is the kind of bizarre scenario which pre-tribulation requires if it is going to be reconciled with clear NT teaching.)

He didnt not say that when he dies he will be in heaven. Paul, along with the rest of the Apostles are awaiting His {Jesus} return and thats when they will be resurrected and "BE LIKE HIM" as John put it.

Paul says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Wow so all the scriptures are wrong when it says

"For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified" (I Cor. 15:22).

Comment: "vivified" is from the Greek: Zoopoieo = LIVE-DO, "giving life beyond the reach of death, conferring immortality." The same "all" who are dying in Adam (which includes everyone) is the same "all" who are vivified in Christ (which of necessity includes everyone). Also notice that the "all" are vivified "in" Christ not "out" of Christ, and it's not, "all in Christ are vivified," but rather, "in Christ ... ALL are vivified." The order of words makes a giant difference.
"Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying. For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just" (Rom. 5:19).
Comment: This is not a difficult verse to understand. One offense brought condemnation on all mankind and all are constituted sinners. In the same manner ("thus also") through the obedience of the One [Christ] the same "many" are constituted just!

BTW no one dies and "goes to heaven" or again you have to figure these scriptures are wrong also
Joh 3:13 - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Ac 2:34 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek] For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

 

[smokydot]

What is your point here?

NOw speaking of the rapture if you notice and pay attention to all the words, if there where to be a "rapture" then it would be a RAPTURE OF THE WICKED not the good

'RAPTURE' OF THE WICKED?

Matthew 24:37-39, CLNT:
For even as the days of Noah, thus shall be the presence of the Son of Mankind. For as they were in those days before the deluge, masticating and drinking and marrying and taking in marriage until the day on which Noah entered into the ark, and did not know till the deluge came and takes them all away, THUS shall be the PRESENCE of the Son of Mankind.

Why does Christ compare His Return to the Days of Noah? What happened then? Who was taken away [raptured] during the flood, Noah and his family? No! The wicked! God sent a great flood that took the wicked out of the earth! And Jesus says, "as the days of Noah, thus shall be the PRESENCE of the Son of Mankind"!

Jesus is saying here that, just as in the days of Noah when the wicked were unaware that their end was near (did not kow till the deluge came and takes them all away), so at his second coming, the wicked will likewise be unaware that their end is near.

John 17:15, CLNT:
I am not asking that Thou shouldst be taking them [His Disciples] away out of the world, but that Thou shouldst be keeping them from the wicked one.

Jesus is praying for his disciples at the last Supper. He is praying for God's protection of them in the future after he is gone. He is not asking God to protect them by taking them out of the world, but by keeping them from the wicked one.

This does not refer to removal of the wicked, but protection from the wicked.

BECAUSE OF THE CHOSEN

Matthew 224:22, CLNT:
And, except those days were discounted, no flesh at all would be saved. Yet, because of the chosen, those days shall be discounted.

Therefore, the chosen elect have not been raptured away, but rather left, or God wouldn’t have to shorten the days of tribulation for their sakes.

This isn't about the rapture.
This is about the events before the rapture.

Matthew 13:40-42, CLNT:
Even as the darnel, then, are being culled and burned up with fire, thus shall it be in the conclusion of the eon. The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing lawlessness, and they shall be casting them into a furnace of fire. There shall be lamentation and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:47-50, CLNT:
Again, like is the kingdom of the heavens to a dragnet cast into the sea, which gathers of every species, and, when it was filled full, hauling it up on the beach and being seated, they cull the ideal into crocks, yet the rotten they cast out. Thus shall it be in the conclusion of the eon. The messengers will be coming out and they will be severing the wicked from the midst of the just. And they shall be casting them into a furnace of fire. There shall be lamentation and gnashing of teeth

These occur after the rapture into the air, where all those with Christ will observe the "housecleaning."

Proverbs 25:4-5:
Take away the dross from the silver ... Take away the wicked from the King...
Job 38:13:
That it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?

Taken in their context, these are not referring to the end of time, when the rapture will occur.

Hebrews 12:27-29, CLNT:
Whose voice then shakes the earth. Yet now He has promised, saying, Still once more shall I be quaking, not only the earth, but heaven also. Now the "Still once more" is making evident the transference of that which is being shaken [the wicked], as of that having been made, that what is not being shaken [the righteous] should be remaining. Wherefore, accepting an unshakable kingdom, we may have grace through which we may be offering divine service in a way well pleasing to God, with piety and dread, for our God is also a consuming fire.

The text above explains what is being shaken--that having been made; i.e., created things. It is not referring to the wicked.

Psalm 115:16, NIV:
The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth he has given to man.

LIKE A THIEFk
Why would Christ warn us to 'watch' for the day of His Return, if we are just going to be raptured away to heaven? Apparently, it's the opposite!
Why else do you think Christ's Return is said to be like a thief in the night?
Christ wants us to watch so that we will be ready.

I Thessalonians 5:4:
Now you brethren, are not in darkness, that the day may be overtaking you as a thief ...

Because just as a thief steals from the unexpecting, so also those who are not prepared for Christ's Return will be taken away unexpectedly!

Matthew 24:40-42, CLNT:
Then two shall be in the field; one is taken along and one left: two grinding at the millstone; one is taken along and one left. be watching, then, for you are not aware on what day your Lord is coming.

Christ's coming will be as unexpected for the wicked as a thief in the night.
But believers in Jesus Christ are sons of the light (1 Th 5:5), they do not live in the darkness as do the wicked, so they will not be asleep as are the wicked, they will be alert and self-controlled when the day of their salvation comes.

Proverbs 11:31:
The righteous shall be recompensed in the earth

Job 21:18:
They [the wicked] are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth away.

Taken in their context, these do not refer to the rapture.

Mark 35-37:
Watch, then, for you are not aware when the lord of the house is coming, at evening, or midnight, or cockcrowing, or morning, that, coming suddenly, he may not be finding you drowsing. Now what I am saying to you, I am saying to all: 'Watch!'

See my comment above on the group containing 1 Th 5:4.

Proverbs 10:30:
The righteous shall never be removed; and the wicked shall not inherit the earth

Taken in context, this does not refer to the rapture

Revelations 16:15:
Lo! I am coming as a thief! Happy is he who is watching...

See comment above on group containing 1 Th 5:4.

Taken in their context, none of the above verses refer to a rapture of the wicked.

 

[smokydot]

Did you read the post i posted about the rapture that IF there were to be a rapture it would be a rapture of the wicked.

Yes, I did. . .and I responded in post #262.

As for the "meet the Lord in the air", if you want to know what this means try looking for what the Word says is in the "air" and you will get the meaning of what the Word means to being caught up with the Lord in the air. It doesnt mean rapture though.

Rapture is the act of transporting.
At Christ's second coming, those in Christ who are in the ground (dead) will rise
and then those in Christ who are on the ground (alive), together with the risen,
will be transported (raptured) from the earth to the air to be with him (1 Th 4:16-17).

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The rapture and pre-, post- and millennial are not the same thing.
The rapture is Biblical, the "millennial" thing is not.

I find the rapture all the way back to 1714.

Yeah, that's the point. It's something that was in no teaching of the churches until then. And most churches weren't convinced.