The real cause of Islamic terrorism-- the yogic perspective

[mohamedhassan]

sorri that didn't work heres the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP-UNSj5-C4

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

It may be riddled with bullets, but these massive statues (which showed a flourishing buddhist civilization prior to destruction by islamic fundamentalists ) were still there right. Who destroyed them completely ?

I see you conveniently failed to quote why the statues were destroyed. Which would you rather have done, statues maintained who neither eat, nor need shelter, nor medicine and that if destroyed feel no pain, or would you rather hungry men, women, and children be fed and clothed? Or is it that muslim men, women, and children do not deserve such things?

 

[mohamedhassan]

And what about the Buddhists in Afghanistan and central asian nations, the Assyrian Christians, the Bahais in Iran and other islamic countries, the Zoroastrians in Persia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What about them??

And why are muslims the only ones resorting to terrorist attacks and suicide bombings

Because they have nothing else to defend themseleves with?? Have you seen Iraq? American soliders use dead iraqi civilians as soccer balls. Now is it wrong for people to resist in that case?? or would you rather they all lay on the ground and prepare thier heads to be used as soccer balls?

There are hindus and buddhists and sikhs and bahais all over the world ,and they do not engage in terrorist attacks or kill innocent people.

Thats not really convincing to people who've had their homes stolen, thier kids imprisioned, their daughters raped, their men killed. I guess your suggesting they do nothing right! Listen Innocent people should never be dragged into conflicts so don't blame that on islam. Sometimes people do feel the urge for revenge, though islam doesn't teach vengence and strongly goes against it, people are people and can only take so much abuse

sorry, but as an example , the islamic terrorists in Beslan who killed numerous innocent children

as would anyone but how about when the entire chechen race was taken to siberia by Stalin wasn't that terroirsm? when all the elderly were killed and the women raped where was the public outcry then? where is the media today to record the war crimes commited in chechnya? what about the masacare that occured in Groznya? how about the civilians that fled? don't look at things through one prespective! heres a report i read a while back and i can find you ALOT more on the topic

Since the beginning of the conflict, Russian forces have indiscriminately and disproportionately bombed and shelled civilian objects, causing heavy civilian casualties. The Russian forces have ignored their Geneva convention obligations to focus their attacks on combatants, and appear to take few safeguards to protect civilians: It is this carpet-bombing campaign which has been responsible for the vast majority of civilian deaths in the conflict in Chechnya. The Russian forces have used powerful surface-to surface rockets on numerous occasions, causing death tolls in the hundreds in the Central Market bombing in Grozny and in many smaller towns and villages. Lately, Russian commanders have threatened to use even more powerful explosives, including fuel air explosives which could have a disastrous casualty count if used against civilian targets. The bombing campaign has turned many parts of Chechnya to a wasteland: even the most experienced war reporters I have spoken to told me they have never seen anything in their careers like the destruction of the capital Grozny​

You seem to be very naive. Ever heard of 9/11, the madrid bombings, beslan, 7/7 in U.K., bomb blasts in mumbai, bali bomb blasts, which are all very recent. All over the world China, Russia, the U.S. , the U.K., denmark, holland, germany, france, spain, sudan, algeria, morocco, libya, egypt, saudi arabia, afghanistan, pakistan, india, bangladesh, thailand, phillipines, indonesia, malaysia , uzbekistan, iran and other countries are suffering from islamic terrorism , which clearly is a global problem.If you haven't heard of any of this, then I must repeat you are living in a fools paradise.

If taking the words of the media and analyzing it before i believe in it make me naive, then i'm guilty. okay 9/11,7/7, and 3/11 were tragic events, any lose of life is tradgic and sadining but why is it you mention those but not the 10 sacntions on iraq? why those and not the plight of the palestinan people? Last year alone 699 palestians were killed by isrealis and another 3,000 some what imprioned, isn't that terrorism? In somalia over a thousand people were massacared and million have fled in recent days all in the name of "war against terror", is that justified? how about the hundrends held in Guantanimo? in Bagrahm? in Abu Graib? and in sercret prisions? I'm sorry if you think I live in a fools hevean but I would rather analyze things before I swallow them like a fool, simple as that!

some of the countries which you've mentioned besides being puppet governments are amongst those with the worst human rights histories ever for instance, a month ago the morrocon king released 30,000 prioners who were either pregnant, mentally ill, or physically disabled! now tell me how many others do you think are in prision because they didn't agree with the polocies of the government especailly when they infringe on islam? Algeria is no different 100,000 people were killed in the last civil war. these people don't care about civilians though they make you seem like they do their more intrested about keeping their monarachies and rule going and feel that If the laws of islam was imposed on them they would lose everything!

Buddhists, sikhs, jains, hindus, assyrians, zoroastrians, bahais, christians , jews, virtually every religion in the world has suffered from islamic fundamentalism and terrorism. May I know what we have done to deserve this ?

Listen no one deserves violence and as a matter in fact it is soooooo disgusting but the world runs that way. I admit people do go over board and do some radical things but you can find a reason because of the way they live! Listen there is no muslim out there who claims they want to eradicate all other religions off the face of the map! no muslim wants to kill innocent people because they love to kill. People are anger and feel really oppressed, and we have to try to understand that. All muslims want is their own land and to rule by their own laws not those that are superimposed on them. Listen look through the history of islam and you'll see that while Islam was dominant many religions have lived peacefully along side islam, islam doesn't want to kill "infidels", Islam wants to live in peace but reaching that peace seems to be very hard especially latly

what exactly is ticking you off that you have a problem with? I feel like something is going on in India that seems to be bugging you. Don't get me wrong No where have I said that the death of innocent civilians are legitamate, on the contrary I've relitterated that it is completely wrong but your only analyzing the issue in one prespective, I suggest you look at the other side as well before you pass your judgement

 

[TashaN]

According to the FBI, the definition of terrorism is:

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence againstpersons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

LOL, that will make Bush a terrorist.

What I wish to say is that there are certain verses in the quran which are used by hate mongers and terrorists to justify their terrorist acts.

Human beings don't need religions to provoke them to commit evil acts, they simply grap anything to use it as an excuse, not only within muslims but you can find that in all religions, it's the nature of human beings.

Take this as an example:

[4] So woe to the worshippers !!!

What does this supposed to mean? hmmmmmm

Wow, you can start a thread now claiming that Allah said in the Quran to the Muslims "woe to the worshippers" .

Is that mean God is saying woe to those who worship him, does it make any sense to the reader?

Of course not, unless you read the following verses ...

[4] So woe to the worshippers

[5] Who are neglectful of their Prayers,

[6] Those who (want but) to be seen (of men),

[7] But refuse (to supply) (even) neighbourly needs. (Quran 107:4-7)

Therefore, I hope that you will stop playing with the word of God and start quoting in context.

All these verses in the quran which violate modern morality should be eradicated

Don't quote the Quran out of context please, and if you follow a specific religion please tell me about it to see whether your religion is clean from such acts which you accuse the muslims about or not.

or at least moderate islamic scholars should educate the islamic community on these verses and the carnage and the havoc they have caused.

There is no such thing as moderate scholars, it's a myth which drive people into thinking that Islam in general is dangerous and only moderate people can fix it. Islam is based on Moderation and that's how our prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him" was preaching to the Muslims, because in Islam it's a must to be a moderate by nature because extremism is not an islamic teaching.

 

[niranjan]

I see you conveniently failed to quote why the statues were destroyed. Which would you rather have done, statues maintained who neither eat, nor need shelter, nor medicine and that if destroyed feel no pain, or would you rather hungry men, women, and children be fed and clothed? Or is it that muslim men, women, and children do not deserve such things?

Good, there are responses . I like it.

Coming to the topic , what is the need for the taliban to destroy the statues in the first place , wasting a lot of ammunition and valuable gun power. The money spent in purchasing this stuff in itself will go a long way in taking care of hungry muslim men , women and children.( of course, we are not taking the sikhs into consideration as they are not muslims and hence need not be fed.)
It is simple logic.

 

[niranjan]

sorri that didn't work heres the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP-UNSj5-C4

Well, the afghans and the northern alliance , who are also muslim , were celebrating the destruction of the taliban. I wonder why!!!

We also enjoyed the destruction of the taliban, as they had hijacked our aeroplane in 2000 and had killed one of our citizens.

 

[mohamedhassan]

Well, the afghans and the northern alliance , who are also muslim , were celebrating the destruction of the taliban. I wonder why!!!

They also multiplied the opium production in afghanistan by ten fold so I wonder why (keeping in mind the taliban banned opium production)

We also enjoyed the destruction of the taliban, as they had hijacked our aeroplane in 2000 and had killed one of our citizens.

okay people living in the desert in afghanistan hijaked a plane?????? thats ludicurus and till this day there isn't a shred of evidence

 

[TashaN]

And what about the Buddhists in Afghanistan and central asian nations, the Assyrian Christians, the Bahais in Iran and other islamic countries, the Zoroastrians in Persia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL, you are trying to make it seem like all muslim countries are bad, and i really laughed when you first mentioned Iran then Persia because they both refer to the same country. ha ha ha. Gotchaaaaaa

And why are muslims the only ones resorting to terrorist attacks and suicide bombings and other nauseating violence against themselves and non-muslims , all over the world. There are hindus and buddhists and sikhs and bahais all over the world ,and they do not engage in terrorist attacks or kill innocent people.

Ohh really?

Tell me what are the first three religions mentioned in Wiki in this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_terrorism

If you don't believe me, then read the followings ...

Hindus terrorism:
http://www.nyu.edu/classes/keefer/joe/reuben.html

http://indianmuslims.in/is-it-hindu-terrorism/

http://www.shivamvij.com/2006/12/hindu-terrorism.html

Sikhs terrorism:
http://www.milnet.com/tgp/data/sikh.htm

http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/kashmir/1994/kashmir94-03.htm


buddhists terrorism:
http://www.iivs.de/~iivs01311/EN/links.htm

May I know what we have done to deserve this ?

There is no smoke without a fire, don't look at the consequences but at the cause of these acts. I challenge you to find any terrorist act by Muslims in their history exceot for the last few decads. Whether you are ignorant about the history and civilization of Islam and Muslims or you are just another prey for media. Few decades in human beings history is nothing, and you can ask any historian about that. Therefore, your accusations are false because you are closing your eyes on purpose from seeing what they did to the Muslims all over the world. Wherever there are muslims, there is a shed of Muslim blood all over the world so many groups came on the surface in order to do what the current puppet governments in muslim countries couldn't do so.

You are so naive if you really think muslims just came out of no where killing people for no reason.

Why the Muslims had no terrorist acts for 1400 years and we just suddnly heard about all this?

You seem to like asking questions, so you better ask yourself that question first.

Muslims have been colonized, hijacked and attacked in Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt, Sudan, Algeria, Tunsia, Morroco, Turkey, Iran, China, Russia, afghanistan, pakistan, india, bangladesh, thailand, phillipines, indonesia, malaysia , uzbekistan and no body care.

Ask yourself, why?

All what you see is absolutely natural response to what is happening and happened to the Muslims all over the world. I condemn the terrorist acts and all religions do so, but i'm brave enough to admit that we all have to work for this problem but i never blame religious scriptures the way you do. You are just taking verses out of context and attach it to political problems. Wake up !!!

 

[niranjan]

What about them??

What do you mean, what about them!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why dont you apologize to them as well for the atrocities islamic terrorists and fundamentalists committed against them ?

Because they have nothing else to defend themseleves with

So you are saying that muslim terrorists are attacking and killing innocent people in the U.S. , Russia, China, India, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Thailand, Phillipines, France, Algeria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Malaysia, Indonesia, Spain, Iran,Holland, the U.K., and other countries at the present moment ( not the past) because they don't have anything to defend themselves with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

May I know why Islamic terrorists have a problem with the whole world or mankind in general ?

Thats not really convincing to people who've had their homes stolen, thier kids imprisioned, their daughters raped, their men killed. I guess your suggesting they do nothing right! Listen Innocent people should never be dragged into conflicts so don't blame that on islam. Sometimes people do feel the urge for revenge, though islam doesn't teach vengence and strongly goes against it, people are people and can only take so much abuse??

So are you saying that in Afghanistan, Algeria, Iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Thailand, Phillipines, France, Algeria, Sudan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Spain,Holland, muslims are imprisoned, raped and killed. What about the non-muslim minorities in muslim states!!!!!! Don't you think by the same logic , the non-muslims as well, in order to prevent the killing of their people and the rape of their women and children, should employ self-defence and fight back with a vengeance againt Islamic terrorists?

as would anyone but how about when the entire chechen race was taken to siberia by Stalin wasn't that terroirsm? when all the elderly were killed and the women raped where was the public outcry then? where is the media today to record the war crimes commited in chechnya? what about the masacare that occured in Groznya? how about the civilians that fled? don't look at things through one prespective! heres a report i read a while back and i can find you ALOT more on the topic??


Since the beginning of the conflict, Russian forces have indiscriminately and disproportionately bombed and shelled civilian objects, causing heavy civilian casualties. The Russian forces have ignored their Geneva convention obligations to focus their attacks on combatants, and appear to take few safeguards to protect civilians: It is this carpet-bombing campaign which has been responsible for the vast majority of civilian deaths in the conflict in Chechnya. The Russian forces have used powerful surface-to surface rockets on numerous occasions, causing death tolls in the hundreds in the Central Market bombing in Grozny and in many smaller towns and villages. Lately, Russian commanders have threatened to use even more powerful explosives, including fuel air explosives which could have a disastrous casualty count if used against civilian targets. The bombing campaign has turned many parts of Chechnya to a wasteland: even the most experienced war reporters I have spoken to told me they have never seen anything in their careers like the destruction of the capital Grozny??

I condemn all violence. But perhaps if the chechen muslims, instead of trying to seperate from Russia(as they are doing in other countries as well), had become a loyal part of it, I don't think none of this violence would have taken place.​

Also , is it moral to kill innocent children and rape 15 year old girls in beslan , considering the fact that they are just children. And I don't think revenge was a factor in this because women and girls were raped and children killed as well in offensive warfare committed against non-muslim nations by islamic fundamentalists for no reason at all. It is a part of islamic terrorist culture.

If taking the words of the media and analyzing it before i believe in it make me naive, then i'm guilty. okay 9/11,7/7, and 3/11 were tragic events, any lose of life is tradgic and sadining but why is it you mention those but not the 10 sacntions on iraq? !

My topic here is 'the real cause of islamic terrorism, ' as shown by the past and the present .

I think Iraq could have avoided all these sanctions if they had opened up their military sites or biological weapons research institutes to the international community, and I believe the international community had a point in being circumspect about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction considering the way they tortured and killed Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war, their invasion of Kuwait where they butchered a lot of people, and the way they used chemical weapons against the kurds . These guys have a history of nauseating violence and warfare, against civilians as well, and hence logically they cannot be trusted with weapons of mass destruction.

why those and not the plight of the palestinan people? Last year alone 699 palestians were killed by isrealis and another 3,000 some what imprioned, isn't that terrorism?!

Well, from what I know , many Israelis themselves have been killed by palestinians themselves, with bomb blasts and suicide bombings.

I dont condone neither Israeli violence, nor palestinian violence.

In somalia over a thousand people were massacared and million have fled in recent days all in the name of "war against terror", is that justified? ?!

Somalia has lacked a legitimate central government since the overthrow of Siad Barré in 1991. The resultant environment of lawlessness and clan warfare is ideal for hiding fugitives. It also makes Somalia vulnerable to external manipulation — the first seeds of which were planted when Osama bin Laden sent al Qaeda personnel to assist in the guerrilla war against UN and U.S. peacekeepers whose presence marginalized important clan leaders.

I think most of the thousands who were massacred were alqaeda operatives. I don't think there is anything wrong in that.

The western nations and the U.N. have also reported the plighT of starving somali people ,and the U.S. itself have done a lot to alleviate their hunger and poverty, which apparently the al-qaeda was not bothered about.

how about the hundrends held in Guantanimo? in Bagrahm? in Abu Graib? and in sercret prisions? I'm sorry if you think I live in a fools hevean but I would rather analyze things before I swallow them like a fool, simple as that!

And I must ask you, did they do this...........


An Austrian officer, Captain von Goumoens, working in the court of the Shah at the time, gave the following account after signing his resignation:

"[I saw] ones who, with gouged-out eyes, must eat, on the scene of the deed, their own amputated ears; or whose teeth are torn out with inhuman violence by the hand of the executioner; or whose bare skulls are simply crushed by blows from a hammer..." "As for the end itself, they hang the scorched and perforated bodies by their hands and feet to a tree head downwards, and now every Persian may try his marksmanship to his heart’s content... When I read over again, what I have written, I am overcome by the thought that those who are with you in our dearly beloved Austria may doubt the full truth of the picture, and accuse me of exaggeration. Would to God that I had not lived to see it!... At present I never leave my house, in order not to meet with fresh scenes of horror... I will no longer maintain my connection with the scene of such crimes.”\

(persecution of the Bahais by Islamic fundamentalists)


What the americans have done to the alqaeda operatives is nothing compared to what the islamic fundamentalists have done to the bahais and the assyrians.

Listen there is no muslim out there who claims they want to eradicate all other religions off the face of the map!!

Oh belive me, they do, and both the past and the present is witness to it.



​

 

[niranjan]

Listen look through the history of islam and you'll see that while Islam was dominant many religions have lived peacefully along side islam, islam doesn't want to kill "infidels", Islam wants to live in peace but reaching that peace seems to be very hard especially latly!!

Yes, that is why buddhists, hindus, sikhs ,jains in India lived very ' peacefully ' with islamic fundamentalists.

The same with the zoroastrians in Persia or Iran ( as 'Truth pointed out) , they were also treated very well by muslim fundamentalists. I wonder why then they fled to India in large numbers leaving their motherland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The same with the Bahais in Iran and Egypt and other countries. They too are treated with a lot of compassion and kindness by islamic fundamentalists, and my posts in the beginning of this thread is proof of this. I exhort all the readers to go through it.

what exactly is ticking you off that you have a problem with? I feel like something is going on in India that seems to be bugging you. Don't get me wrong No where have I said that the death of innocent civilians are legitamate, on the contrary I've relitterated that it is completely wrong but your only analyzing the issue in one prespective, I suggest you look at the other side as well before you pass your judgement

Well, you see, it really is not a nice thing to read a lot about suicide bombings by islamic terrorists and killing of innocent people and rape of ladies in many countries and virtually every other religion.

Also in my own country, the jains, the hindus, the buddhists, the sikhs were tortured and killed and our women raped by islamic fundamentalists both in medieval ages and in the present era.

And this is the reason why Guru Govind Singh, our prophet, created the Khalsa,and baptized saint-warriors to fight against islamic terrorism and prevent the killing of innocent people and the outrage of ladies by islamic fundamentalists and to destroy islamic terrorism with an iron fist.

 

[mohamedhassan]

I really appreciate how you failed to read my entire post (which i took time to write lol) and you cut bits and peices and responded to it. It seems your objective isn't to try to understand but to overwhelm the debate with your beliefs and i'm sorry but we're really not gonna get far like that lol

 

[UnityNow101]

Every side is out for blood. The Islamic radicals are out for blood because of our blatant hypocrisy in supporting Israel, even when they commit atrocities against a nation and a people. We are out for blood because the people in the middle east don't like our Wetsern way of thinking and we want everyone to be US-controlled mind zombies...Until we all come together and discuss the issues at hand, mainly our foreign policy and Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people, blood will continue to be shed on BOTH sides. It is not that one is completely right and the other completely wrong. It is that both are wrong in believing that killing the other side off will resolve all of the problems. Neither side wants to negotiate in any meaninful way which is what causes the problems that we see today. We know the old saying that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." That is true. There is terror being propogated by BOTH sides and it must stop or else there will always be bloodshed...Period.

 

[niranjan]

LOL, that will make Bush a terrorist..

Could be, though I don't know whether Bush has raped any women or physically tortured anyone.

Any way, in my dictionary , it makes all islamic fundamentalists and militants, ever since the 7th century A.D., terrorists.

Human beings don't need religions to provoke them to commit evil acts, they simply grap anything to use it as an excuse, not only within muslims but you can find that in all religions, it's the nature of human beings...

Well, I don't know about that, but many buddhist , hindu and jain monks and the sikh gurus as well, didn't offer any resistance while they were tortured and killed by islamic fundamentalists for not renouncing their religion. I think it is because of conformity of these holy people to the ideal of strict non-violence even in the face of aggression, as taught by the buddha and mahavira. I guess they were superhuman or divine.

Therefore, I hope that you will stop playing with the word of God and start quoting in context. ...

And what do you have to say about the verses I have put in my 4th post.

Don't quote the Quran out of context please, and if you follow a specific religion please tell me about it to see whether your religion is clean from such acts which you accuse the muslims about or not....

The verses have damaged the world considerably, and hence it is imperative for us to discuss it.

We don't have any verses in the dharmic religions , hinduism , buddhism , jainism, sikhism, stating that we should chop off the fingers of unbelievers , or to behead them, or to mutilate them, or even to kill them.

Our prophets have strictly exhorted us to never impose our beliefs on others by force or hurt them, as all paths are divine and all are children of God.

Islam is based on Moderation and that's how our prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him" was preaching to the Muslims, because in Islam it's a must to be a moderate by nature because extremism is not an islamic teaching.

Yeah sure, tell that to the Bahais, the Zoroastrians, the Assyrians, the hindus, the buddhists, the jains and the sikhs in asia and all other victims of islamic terrorism . I am sure they will believe you.


Must say you have an interesting picture next to your name, which is highly reminiscent of the subject of this thread.That itself will contribute a lot. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. So in a way, I am glad you have joined this debate and conversation.

 

[niranjan]

I really appreciate how you failed to read my entire post (which i took time to write lol) and you cut bits and peices and responded to it. It seems your objective isn't to try to understand but to overwhelm the debate with your beliefs and i'm sorry but we're really not gonna get far like that lol

I believe I have responded to 99 % of what you have wrote to me. If there is anything missing, I apologize.

 

[niranjan]

We know the old saying that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." That is true. There is terror being propogated by BOTH sides and it must stop or else there will always be bloodshed...Period.

And where was the ' freedom fighting ' , when the Zoroastrians were persecuted by islamic terrorists in persia . Hell, they had to leave their motherland in large numbers and go to India, where their hindu and buddhist brothers gave them refuge and full freedom of worship, and hence the zoroastrian culture,religion and heritage was not lost to the world. I am proud that we have a thriving Zoroastrian population in India.

And where was the 'freedom fighting ', when the Bahais, whose teachings are highly noble and beautiful and humane, were persecuted by Islamic fundamentalists and terrorists in Iran and Egypt.

And where was the 'freedom fighting' when the assyrians , who were defenceless civilians were slaughtered by the turkish forces and their women and little girls taken to their harems against their wills.

And where was the freedom fighting, when hindus and buddhist minorities in muslim majority Bangladesh, was tortured and killed and raped by islamic terrorists.

And where was the freedom fighting when our prophet Guru Teg Bahadur and his disciples was cruelly tortured and killed by Aurangzeb and the islamic fundamentalists , which led to the creation of the holy khalsa.

 

[niranjan]

They also multiplied the opium production in afghanistan by ten fold so I wonder why (keeping in mind the taliban banned opium production)

So what , even hitler had some good qualities. And this is probably only the only good thing they have done, compared to their numerous negatives.

okay people living in the desert in afghanistan hijaked a plane?????? thats ludicurus and till this day there isn't a shred of evidence

Oh believe me, the hijacking of our plane in 2000 was a major event that attracted the worlds attention and it is a fact that really happened. Indian negotiators had to go to Afghanistan to negotiate with the Taliban.One of our citizens, a recently married young man was killed before his wife in the plane. We have not forgotten that.

 

[TashaN]

Could be, though I don't know whether Bush has raped any women or physically tortured anyone.

Hmmm, yeah, you will never know, or maybe the other way around, don't want to know.

Any way, in my dictionary , it makes all islamic fundamentalists and militants, ever since the 7th century A.D., terrorists.

Keep your own dictionary for yourself, i only deal with facts but not with personal judgements.

What is the name of your personal dictionary by the way?

Well, I don't know about that, but many buddhist , hindu and jain monks and the sikh gurus as well, didn't offer any resistance while they were tortured and killed by islamic fundamentalists for not renouncing their religion.

No one is forcing anyone to leave his religion, but if you have any evidence for that, i'll be so interested to know about it.

And what do you have to say about the verses I have put in my 4th post

Put them in context then we can talk about it because you are snatching verses out of context.

The verses have damaged the world considerably, and hence it is imperative for us to discuss it.

The verses have nothing to do with what is in your mind.

We don't have any verses in the dharmic religions , hinduism , buddhism , jainism, sikhism, stating that we should chop off the fingers of unbelievers , or to behead them, or to mutilate them, or even to kill them.

Neither us.

Our prophets have strictly exhorted us to never impose our beliefs on others by force or hurt them, as all paths are divine and all are children of God.

May i know your religion, if you don't mind?

Yeah sure, tell that to the Bahais, the Zoroastrians, the Assyrians, the hindus, the buddhists, the jains and the sikhs in asia and all other victims of islamic terrorism . I am sure they will believe you.

Why not. they should believe because they have been living with the Muslims since so long time a go.

Must say you have an interesting picture next to your name

Thanks for the compliment, i'm glad too that i'm discussing with you this topic and i would love to know more about you dear niranjan.

Thank you also for starting this thread because it will help people to understand that terrorism have no religion, it's everywhere.

 

[TashaN]

And where was the ' freedom fighting ' , when the Zoroastrians were persecuted by islamic terrorists in persia . Hell, they had to leave their motherland in large numbers and go to India, where their hindu and buddhist brothers gave them refuge and full freedom of worship, and hence the zoroastrian culture,religion and heritage was not lost to the world. I am proud that we have a thriving Zoroastrian population in India.

And where was the 'freedom fighting ', when the Bahais, whose teachings are highly noble and beautiful and humane, were persecuted by Islamic fundamentalists and terrorists in Iran and Egypt.

And where was the 'freedom fighting' when the assyrians , who were defenceless civilians were slaughtered by the turkish forces and their women and little girls taken to their harems against their wills.

And where was the freedom fighting, when hindus and buddhist minorities in muslim majority Bangladesh, was tortured and killed and raped by islamic terrorists.

And where was the freedom fighting when our prophet Guru Teg Bahadur and his disciples was cruelly tortured and killed by Aurangzeb and the islamic fundamentalists , which led to the creation of the holy khalsa.

So you now teaming up all religions against Islam?

The good guys vs. the bad guys? LOL

I'll prove to you that terrorism has no specific religion and it's everywhere in the following posts of mine "God willing", and i hope you will work with me to stop these acts starting by enlighting our communities and stop generating hate against Muslims as we muslims will try to stop any act against others.

If you just kept posting more and more about how bad are muslims then you will get absolutely nothing out of this. Hate is not good for you because it will lead you to be a prey for islamophopia. Wake up before it's too late and let us work for peace, all of us, instead of throwing stones at each other. Hate and destruction is always much more easier than peace, so try to think please in a positive way and do your best to work for peace and concentrate in our similarities more than what we differ at.


Peace and blessing,

TT

 

[TashaN]

Act Now to Stop Violence Against Muslims in Vadodara, Gujarat


The state of Gujarat, India is again experiencing violence directed at the minority Muslim community. The outbreak of violence was started off by the demolition of a 300 year old historical Muslim shrine. The police shooting at the protesters and the subsequent attacks by mobs have led to a death toll of six with many others seriously injured. One man was burned alive by a Hindu extremist mob of 1,500 that had besieged a Muslim neighborhood. Numerous Muslim localities in Vadodara are reported being besieged by violent mobs as we speak.

The fast deteriorating situation in Vadodara could very well lead to a repeat of the 2002 Gujarat massacres in which over 2,000 people were killed. Despite a predictable reaction to the destruction of a historical shrine, the government of Gujarat has been unwilling to take action to curb the violence. The rapidly spreading attacks on Muslims by mobs belonging to Hindu extremist groups indicate that the Gujarat government machinery is complicit in accommodating the mass violence and attacks on Muslims in the city. There have been multiple reports alleging police excesses on Muslims, including indiscriminate arrests of male Muslim members from their houses. Most of

those killed or injured in the police firing belonged to the minority community.
Narendra Modi's government has been widely accused by Indian and International human rights organizations of active involvement in the massacre and ethnic cleansing of Muslims during the 2002 violence in Gujarat.

http://www.imc-usa.org/cgi-bin/cfm/actionAlert.cfm?aaid=37

 

[TashaN]

India: Gujarat Officials Took Part in Anti-Muslim Violence

New Report Documents Complicity of the State Government

(New York, April 30, 2002) - State officials of Gujarat, India were directly involved in the killings of hundreds of Muslims since February 27 and are now engineering a massive cover-up of the state's role in the violence, Human Rights Watch charged in a new report released today.

The Indian parliament is scheduled today to debate the situation in Gujarat, and may vote to censure the Indian government for its handling of the violence.

"What happened in Gujarat was not a spontaneous uprising, it was a carefully orchestrated attack against Muslims," said Smita Narula, senior South Asia researcher for Human Rights Watch and author of the report. "The attacks were planned in advance and organized with extensive participation of the police and state government officials."

The police were directly implicated in nearly all the attacks against Muslims that are documented in the 75-page report, 'We Have No Orders to Save You': State Participation and Complicity in Communal Violence in Gujarat. In some cases they were merely passive observers. But in many instances, police officials led the charge of murderous mobs, aiming and firing at Muslims who got in the way.

Under the guise of offering assistance, some police officers led the victims directly into the hands of their killers. Panicked phone calls made to the police, fire brigades, and even ambulance services generally proved futile. Several witnesses reported being told by police: "We have no orders to save you."

Three weeks after the initial attacks, Human Rights Watch visited Ahmedabad, a site of large-scale destruction, murder, and several massacres, and spoke to both Hindu and Muslim survivors of the attacks. The report also provides testimony on retaliatory attacks against Hindus, which Human Rights Watch strongly condemned.

More than 850 people have been killed in the Western state of Gujarat in the past two months, most of them Muslims. Unofficial estimates have put the death toll as high as 2,000. The violence began on February 27 after a Muslim mob in the town of Godhra attacked and set fire to two carriages of a train carrying Hindu activists. Fifty-eight people were killed.

Starting February 28, 2002, a three-day retaliatory killing spree by Hindus left hundreds dead and tens of thousands homeless and dispossessed. The looting and burning of Muslim homes, businesses, and places of worship was also widespread. Muslim girls and women were brutally raped. Mass graves have been dug throughout the state. Gravediggers told Human Rights Watch that bodies keep arriving, burnt and mutilated beyond recognition.

Burnt Muslim shops and restaurants dot the main roads and highways in Ahmedabad. Neighboring Hindu establishments remain notably unscathed.

Between February 28 and March 2, thousands of attackers descended on Muslim neighborhoods, clad in saffron scarves and khaki shorts, the signature uniform of Hindu nationalist groups, and armed with swords, sophisticated explosives, and gas cylinders. They were guided by voter lists and printouts of addresses of Muslim-owned properties-information obtained from the local municipality. In the weeks following the attacks, Hindu homes and businesses were also destroyed in retaliatory attacks by Muslims.

The groups most directly involved in the violence against Muslims include the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (World Hindu Council, VHP), the Bajrang Dal, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) that heads the Gujarat state government. Collectively, they are known as the sangh parivar, or family of Hindu nationalist organizations.

The Gujarat state administration has been engaged in a massive cover-up of the state's role in the massacres and that of the sangh parivar. Numerous police reports filed by eyewitnesses after the attacks have specifically named local VHP, BJP, and Bajrang Dal leaders as instigators or participants in the violence. The police, reportedly under instructions from the state, face continuous pressure not to arrest them or to reduce the severity of the charges filed. Top police officials who sought to protect Muslims have been removed from positions of command.

"This is a crisis of impunity," said Narula. "If charges against members of these groups are not investigated and prosecuted accordingly, violence may continue to engulf the state, and may even spread to other parts of the country."

The violence in Gujarat has triggered national outrage and has been strongly condemned by political parties, the National Human Rights Commission, the Indian prime minister, and civil society at large. Both the Godhra massacre and the attacks that ensued have been documented in meticulous detail by Indian human rights and civil liberties groups and by the Indian press.

"After two months of violence, the international community is now waking up and needs to respond," said Narula.

Government figures indicate that more than 98,000 people, an overwhelming majority of them Muslim, are residing in more than one hundred relief camps throughout the state. The state government has failed to provide adequate and timely humanitarian assistance to internally displaced persons in Gujarat. Relief camps visited by Human Rights Watch were in desperate need of more government and international assistance. One camp with 6,000 residents was located on the site of a Muslim graveyard. Residents were literally sleeping in the open, between the graves.

Assistance from international humanitarian and United Nations agencies is urgently needed for Hindus and Muslims in relief camps, Human Rights Watch said. It urged the Indian government to actively seek the assistance of international agencies and to invite United Nations human rights experts to investigate state and police participation in the violence in Gujarat.

Human Rights Watch also urged the international community to put pressure on the Indian government to comply with international human rights and Indian constitutional law and end impunity for orchestrated violence against Indian minorities.