The Real Reason Trump Won

[9-10ths_Penguin]

OK so you say.

If you don't believe me, tell me why you think you should have bodily autonomy.

Be careful not to base your argument on the idea that everyone should have bodily autonomy. By telling us that pregnant people shouldn't have bodily autonomy, we know you don't hold this position.

 

[Kathryn]

I know better than to claim
authority when none is had.
Your posts betray prejudice
against males.

Like I have been saying, think or say whatever you want.

 

[Revoltingest]

Like I have been saying, think or say whatever you want.

As I said, you can count on it.
And you can expect that males will
continue to advocate on abortion rights.

 

[Kathryn]

If you don't believe me, tell me why you think you should have bodily autonomy.

Be careful not to base your argument on the idea that everyone should have bodily autonomy. By telling us that pregnant people shouldn't have bodily autonomy, we know you don't hold this position.

I never said I should have bodily autonomy when it comes to a pregnancy, which in my opinion involves another body.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I never said I should have bodily autonomy when it comes to a pregnancy.

I'm talking about bodily autonomy generally. Why should you have it?

Why should use of your organs and tissues need your consent? Why should the government or companies not just be able to run medical tests on you?

Edit: having poked one hole in the right of bodily autonomy yourself; what argument could you have in response to someone who might want to poke other holes that you care about more?

 

[Twilight Hue]

You're still in the minority. And most of you would agree that Biden caused inflation and higher prices. It shows you all don't care about the truth.
America will suffer because of your poor choices.

As I last checked, I would say I'm in the majority and you're in the minority. Times change.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm talking about bodily autonomy generally. Why should you have it?

Why should use of your organs and tissues need your consent? Why should the government or companies not just be able to run medical tests on you?

Edit: having poked one hole in the right of bodily autonomy yourself; what argument could you have in response to someone who might want to poke other holes that you care about more?

Think whatever you like. I am talking about bodily autonomy only relating to pregnancy.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I'm talking about bodily autonomy generally. Why should you have it?

Why should use of your organs and tissues need your consent? Why should the government or companies not just be able to run medical tests on you?

Edit: having poked one hole in the right of bodily autonomy yourself; what argument could you have in response to someone who might want to poke other holes that you care about more?

You’re actually mansplaining abortion and bodily autonomy to a woman? Don’t you think that’s a subject women are better qualified to comment on than men, just by virtue of being female?

 

[Watchmen]

You can't claim authority on the subject of abortion,
& deny it to someone else. Especially on the basis
that you're female & he isn't.
You've no more or less "dog in this hunt" than he.

This is a good point. The abortion issue and overturning of Roe v Wade did not lead to a huge turnout. One of the primary reasons must be that abortion actually and directly impacts a very few.

 

[tytlyf]

As I last checked, I would say I'm in the majority and you're in the minority. Times change.

MAGA is still the loud minority in the country. And they will continue to be a loud minority. Still a Cult too

 

[danieldemol]

Well, for starters you're not a woman so unless you are, or are closely tied to one, you probably don't have a dog in this hunt.

Im closely tied to one FYI

Also, skin tags are not the same things as fetuses or babies in the womb.

Prior to 22 weeks they have a lot in common ie human DNA but no concious pain awareness in my view.

Thirdly, why would a fetus matter to you if the pregnancy was terminated successfully, legally or illegally, before 22 weeks?

It wouldn't if it were terminated legally.

If it were terminated illegally it may potentially involve an unsafe procedure such as a backyard abortion by someone who doesn't know how to do it safely for the mother in my view.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is a good point. The abortion issue and overturning of Roe v Wade did not lead to a huge turnout. One of the primary reasons must be that abortion actually and directly impacts a very few.

Or it mattered enuf to too few compared to other issues.

 

[Augustus]

That's like saying the person in power is responsible for the earthquake. Not at all. However, that person is certainly responsible for how that earthquake and resulting damage is responded to. And Biden's administration wrestled inflation down.

I've said multiple times that the presidency is significantly luck, but that the incumbent reaps the positive and negatives of this regardless.

If there was an earthquake and the emergency services responded badly due to decades of poor governance, the incumbent would get the blame despite the fact that they were just the unlucky ones who rolled the bad random event.

If the economy is 80% luck and 20% skill, how are people supposed to deal with a counterfactual universe where the other person won to make comparisons about who would have done better? Inflation was caused by world events outside any individual's control, but we can't say that no president could possibly have done better in any way to manage these.

What are you giving the Biden administration credit for reducing inflation though when the same thing happened basically everywhere regardless of who was in power?

This is the problem we can't really tell what is luck/skill so we assign it unevenly based on ideological preferences and create justifications for why we are correct to apply different standards.

We can't even rely on "experts" to judge as economics has one of the worst track records, and is massively ideological also.

I have spent significant amounts of time living in 3 (non-American) countries over the past 4 years - costs increased everywhere, this obviously annoyed people everywhere, and the government got blamed everywhere. No one I saw jumped up to defend the bad luck of "the other side".

If you are are arguing we should be less partisan and more open to information and nuance in politics I fully agree. But this needs to happen across the board, not just when it suits "my side".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You’re actually mansplaining abortion and bodily autonomy to a woman? Don’t you think that’s a subject women are better qualified to comment on than men, just by virtue of being female?

If this is your way of saying that @Kathryn ought to be the one to explain why she should have bodily autonomy despite her denying that others have this right, then I agree with you.

There's nobody better qualified to explain her hypocrisy than she is.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I've said multiple times that the presidency is significantly luck, but that the incumbent reaps the positive and negatives of this regardless.

If there was an earthquake and the emergency services responded badly due to decades of poor governance, the incumbent would get the blame despite the fact that they were just the unlucky ones who rolled the bad random event.

If the economy is 80% luck and 20% skill, how are people supposed to deal with a counterfactual universe where the other person won to make comparisons about who would have done better? Inflation was caused by world events outside any individual's control, but we can't say that no president could possibly have done better in any way to manage these.

What are you giving the Biden administration credit for reducing inflation though when the same thing happened basically everywhere regardless of who was in power?

This is the problem we can't really tell what is luck/skill so we assign it unevenly based on ideological preferences and create justifications for why we are correct to apply different standards.

We can't even rely on "experts" to judge as economics has one of the worst track records, and is massively ideological also.

I have spent significant amounts of time living in 3 (non-American) countries over the past 4 years - costs increased everywhere, this obviously annoyed people everywhere, and the government got blamed everywhere. No one I saw jumped up to defend the bad luck of "the other side".

If you are are arguing we should be less partisan and more open to information and nuance in politics I fully agree. But this needs to happen across the board, not just when it suits "my side".

Yes, all very, very complex.

But consider this: the Obama administration developed a comprehensive playbook for how to handle a pandemic -- and the Trump administration threw it out, early in the term.

And then there was a pandemic...

What credit or condemnation -- and to whom -- do we ascribe?

 

[F1fan]

Well perhaps, but what I think you’re not seeing, is that the high handed contempt with which you and other Democrat supporters refer to Trump’s voters, is more than a little counterproductive.

I'm sorry, they voted for a man who is mentally disturbed, a criminal, a chronic liar, hurts anyone who he thinks is a threat, has terrible ideas that even ihis supporters don't like as revealed in polls when Harris and Trump ideas were asked about them. Do you follow me here? Voters were asked about policies of Trump and Harris but not told whose they were, and the majority preferred Harris' ideas.

I've asked for month for Trump supporters of present a lucid argument for what makes his a superior option to Harris. No one could do it. MAGAs are like creationists, they deny many facts, and are committed to bad ideas due to emotions. No one who voted for Trump did so because he is the better candidate. The only exceptions are the super wealthy who will benefit from his tax policies. Those policies will hurt America and it's middle class and poor in the long run. His voters are too poorly informed and educated to understand this. Many don't even know what a tariff is.

I have seen some interveiws with Trump voters who were stunned to realize tariffs are going to raise costs on things they buy. I've yet to engage or see a Trump voter who dazzles me with their intelligence and knowledge. Look at those on this forum, they constantly repeat falsehoods and propaganda. It's unbelievable that so many can be duped and manipulated. I'm getting my financial affairs wrapved up within the year because I almost lost everything in 2008 when the markets colapsed. I'm not going to be on the wrong side of it again. A financial collapse is extremely likely given what Trump wants to do. How fast it happens depends on a lot of factors. Banks and the Fed are working now to interfere with Trump's ideas, and that's because the criminal president elect is an idiot.

It appears to us outsiders that America is now so divided, that one half has no conception at all of how the other half lives; an appearance which reflects every bit as poorly on the judgemental as the judged.

The USA is divided between normal, ethical people and MAGAs who are morally bankrupt. They have normalized cruelty, racism, sexism, lying, fraud, cheating, etc. to such an extent that they can't see that Trump is unfit and disqualified. What side are you on? You you think integrity, honesty, honor, truth, character, decency, empathy, compassion, etc. are virtues, and things that a person should strive for? If so then you understand why we are not like MAGAs, because they have few virtues, and outwardly proud of it.

 

[F1fan]

Yes, all very, very complex.

But consider this: the Obama administration developed a comprehensive playbook for how to handle a pandemic -- and the Trump administration threw it out, early in the term.

And then there was a pandemic...

What credit or condemnation -- and to whom -- do we ascribe?

And consider the fact that the majority of voters decided to put Trump back as president knowing he was considering RFK to head the CDC and FDA, among other agencies that ensure public health. It's almost as if the voters decided to put the least qualified people in charge. What kind of rational mind would do such a thing? No rational mind at all.

I seriously can't imagine the long term damage these people are going to do to the USA.

 

[F1fan]

But there's a larger issue Russia's been struggling with for centuries, it's vulnerability to foreign invasion. Russia has few landforms which could impede invaders. There are wide corridors of undefended steppe surrounding its heartland, facilitating several historical incursions. This has plagued leaders and affected foreign policy for centuries.

Oddly the one thing this vast open land has helped with is those pesky winters. Napoleon found out how bad they were. But Hitler didn't worry about. How bad could it really be? Oh ****, really bad.

Russia's 'solution' was to bring as much area under control as possible, and use sheer distance as a deterrent. But since the dissolution of the Soviet Union into independent states, Russia has felt acutely vulnerable. Putin's been persuing reunification, bit by bit.

Oddly what Russia has worried about in others is what they have become. They became what NATO was designed to defend against. You would think Russia would want NATO countries to border them because part of the NATO charter was non-aggression.

 

[Watchmen]

Yes, all very, very complex.

But consider this: the Obama administration developed a comprehensive playbook for how to handle a pandemic -- and the Trump administration threw it out, early in the term.

And then there was a pandemic...

What credit or condemnation -- and to whom -- do we ascribe?

And Trump was credited by many on both sides for fast tracking the development of the vaccine. Just because there’s a playbook doesn’t mean it’s a good one.

 

[F1fan]

Hogwash, the main reasons Trump won are:

Tiredness of the same old congress. Plenty of people I converse with agree that politics is screwed up and needs to be burned down. Kamala was more of the same and Trump was a flaming turd.

Tired of the same old congress? Look how many of the old timers got re-elected. And if Harris was more of the same, then excellent. More infrastructure investment so businesses can thrive. More tax breaks for the middle class and let the rich pay more. More housing opportunities. Better access to healthcare for women. Cheaper drug prices.

I keep hearing people are frustrated with government, and I ask what tey want to see? They have no answer. I think they are like children who ***** on Christmas morning because they got most everything on their list but not everything. Spoiled, ungrateful brats. The odd thing is that conservatives were supposed to be the strong and independent type, but now seem to be crying that government isn't giving them something they can't explain that they want. MAGAs are like on Trump identity welfare.

Replacement theory, It's real and a lot of people are afraid of losing their status, there power and being treated the way they treated minorities. Trump waved the white flag, Kamala was another example of how they will be replaced.

Yeah, and who is feeding these ideas to them, and why are they butying into it instead of being strong, courageus people? What you describe here seems to me the essence of weakness. That could be why they need a "daddy" figure like Trump who is a white bully.

Racism/Machismo both losing ground in the current environment (hopefully) making there last stand with Trump. Harris was their clear enemy

Religion, losing ground in the new society making a last stab at power(hopefully). Going back to the old ways of forcing practices on the populace by infiltrating government

This is how I see the main issues for Kamala, but there are probably many others as we all think differently.

If Trump was the captain of the Titanic and everyone knows there's a threat of icebergs, MAGAs would deliberately destroy the lifeboats because if Trump makes a poor decision to go full steam ahead all souls on board are going down. Electing Trump was a suicide pact for America.