The Real Root of All Evil

[MoonWater]

While this is a popular way of looking at the meaning of "root of", it is not the intended meaning, IMHO. For a better understanding of what this means look at the meaning of "Root Cause Analysis", (RCA).

Root cause analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think those who are trying to identify the root of all evil are trying to perform an RCA on evil. Take a look at it from that perspective and see if you come to different conclusions or the same conclusion but for different reasons.

Wait, so RCA is not necessarily the intended meaning of the concept of "root of evil" and yet you want me to look at it from that perspective anyway? And your asking me to do so after acknowledging that I have already been looking at it from that perspective?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Wait, so RCA is not necessarily the intended meaning of the concept of "root of evil" and yet you want me to look at it from that perspective anyway? And your asking me to do so after acknowledging that I have already been looking at it from that perspective?

No, I'm saying that your analogy of the tree root is not necessarily the intended meaning of the root of all evil. Using the tree and root analogy is misleading because of the very reasons you illustrated, it links the cause and the reaction together into a single entity when they should be looked at separately. The RCA process separates the causes from the reactions much more clearly.

 

[TEXASBULL]

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.


Loving possessions too much is one answer.

 

[MoonWater]

No, I'm saying that your analogy of the tree root is not necessarily the intended meaning of the root of all evil. Using the tree and root analogy is misleading because of the very reasons you illustrated, it links the cause and the reaction together into a single entity when they should be looked at separately. The RCA process separates the causes from the reactions much more clearly.

oh, ok. Except I know that it's not the intended meaning. That's why I think naming something a root of evil can IMPLY that the root is evil too, but it doesn't MEAN it.

bah, I'm thinking that I haven't done a good job explaining myself here.

 

[Seven]

I'm not starting an argument over something like this, but I must say that the way I am reading what you have written, it sounds as if you are writing off Satan as a fallback. I believe that Satan is real, as is written in the Bible, the spoken Word of God. If Satan is not real, and is merely a fallback, then how do you explain all of the sin in the world. For, if there was only good and God, then there would be no sin.

:candle:

Humans contain within them all the ingredients needed for evil to come about. I'm just saying Satan isn't a necessary part of the explanation.

 

[lockyfan]

Wich is, ofcourse, every religion but yours..

Indeed.

Does your religion go door to door spreading the Good News of the kingdom to all the inhabited earth?

or does it sit in a big old church each day doing nothing but making itself more money and power that will be stripped when religion ends?

The evil we see in the world can easily be explained through human nature, there's no need to fall back on Satan. The problem is plenty of the evil in the world is done by good people with good intentions. I think ignorance might be at the root of a lot of evil.

Yeah, but it was Satan who put the charge up to God that humans can rule themselves, and that humans will do anything to save their own skins and that also means turn away from God.

Satan is the one who runs this world, so the world really reflects the being that runs it. When God finally does take over again from satan after he has let satan prove himself a liar, then we will see what the world should be.

Satan is the underlying problem with this world, his ways and his thinking.

 

[Seven]

Yeah, but it was Satan who put the charge up to God that humans can rule themselves, and that humans will do anything to save their own skins and that also means turn away from God.

Satan is the one who runs this world, so the world really reflects the being that runs it. When God finally does take over again from satan after he has let satan prove himself a liar, then we will see what the world should be.

Well then:sleep: wake me when he gets here.

Satan is the underlying problem with this world, his ways and his thinking.

If Satan is the root of the worlds problems as you say, then there's nothing left for us to do but sit back and wait for God to fix things.

But, as the concept of Satan is unsubstantiated, our time might be better spent taking responsibility for our situation and trying to improve it.

 

[Seven]

Indeed.

Does your religion go door to door spreading the Good News of the kingdom to all the inhabited earth?

or does it sit in a big old church each day doing nothing but making itself more money and power that will be stripped when religion ends?

Just a guess but are you a Jehovah's Witness?

 

[lockyfan]

Well then:sleep: wake me when he gets here.

I am trying to wake you up before he gets here. So that you are awake.
Matthew 24:42-44
Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming.
“But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.

If Satan is the root of the worlds problems as you say, then there's nothing left for us to do but sit back and wait for God to fix things.

But, as the concept of Satan is unsubstantiated, our time might be better spent taking responsibility for our situation and trying to improve it.

Its only unsubstantiated because he is good at making himself seem like he doesnt exist.

 

[Seven]

there is no fence sitting, its God or Satans side. You have to choose

I choose reality.

 

[Caladan]

Also you need to be showing you are on Gods side now. there is no fence sitting, its God or Satans side. You have to choose

Will there be hard feelings by either side by the choice we make?
also I want a full catalogue of what each side is offering.

 

[Rand]

If you want the true "root" of all evil you've only to look into a mirror. It's your free will that allows evil to exist in the world, just as it allows good. Without the ability to choose, we would just be, and words such as good and evil would never apply.

I have never understood why the religious give Satan such power and credit as the creator of evil, as if he had the power to implement anything into the world that God did not desire there. The viewpoint of a theist should be that evil is introduced into humanity through their own choices and faults.

 

[MoonWater]

If you want the true "root" of all evil you've only to look into a mirror. It's your free will that allows evil to exist in the world, just as it allows good. Without the ability to choose, we would just be, and words such as good and evil would never apply.

I have never understood why the religious give Satan such power and credit as the creator of evil, as if he had the power to implement anything into the world that God did not desire there. The viewpoint of a theist should be that evil is introduced into humanity through their own choices and faults.

your making a broad generalization there. replace the words "the religious" and "theists" with something like "many Christians" or "many followers of Abrahamic faiths" and it'll be more accurate. Not all theists/religious people believe in Satan(I sure don't) and even many who do don't give him near so much power as you suggest. So please don't throw us all into the same hamper, there's more to religion than Christianity or other Abrahamic faiths.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

there's more to religion than Christianity or other Abrahamic faiths.

Amen brother! :clap

 

[lockyfan]

your making a broad generalization there. replace the words "the religious" and "theists" with something like "many Christians" or "many followers of Abrahamic faiths" and it'll be more accurate. Not all theists/religious people believe in Satan(I sure don't) and even many who do don't give him near so much power as you suggest. So please don't throw us all into the same hamper, there's more to religion than Christianity or other Abrahamic faiths.

Why dont you believe in Satan? isnt this word evidence enough that it is not run by a God of Love?

Will there be hard feelings by either side by the choice we make?
also I want a full catalogue of what each side is offering.

Satan
Statement I want the Power that God has so that I can let humans rule themselves!
Accusation against God Humans can do it on their own, they dont need you, I can do things better than you can
Accusation Against Humans They will do anything to save their own lives, including turning against God
Benefits Humans know Good and Bad. Humans are left to do things on their own. No Guidance from him, but misapplied and twisted Scripture (see the case of eve in the Garden for Satan and his way of twisting the truth to sound good)
Problems with Satans Philosophies Fundamentally flawed, as we can see by this world. When humans are left to their own devices they try every form of Government they can think of to the detrement of human rights and life. Leads to Sin and Death. If on his side of the fence at Armageddon, destruction. Easily blinds people with his ideas and misleads the entire inhabited earth. He knows his time is coming close to an end and is now on the warpath, trying to take down as many humans with him as he can.
Known traits of Satans system:

2 Timothy 3:1-9
​

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth. Now in the way that Jan′nes and Jam′bres resisted Moses, so these also go on resisting the truth, men completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their madness will be very plain to all, even as the [madness] of those [two men] became

Jehovah God
Statement Follow me and I will make your paths straight
Benefits A better life, The promise of forgiveness of sins, The promise of a paradise on earth where there will be no more pain, death, disease, tears. Even the memory of the bad times will not be called to your mind, because you will be happy. He has let things go to this extent so that all humans who can be saved will be saved.
He is a realist however, He also knows that no matter what He says does and promises, not everyone will want to listen, but He cant hold back and wait for the stubborn ones that will never listen. He has to do something to save this world, because His purpose for the earth was always for it to be a paradise. God means what He says. He loves all people, but will not wait forever for mankind to get the point He is trying to get accross. This point is the irrifutable fact that humans can not rule themselves without his Wisdom and guidance, because they have been for the past 7000+ years (from Adam and Eve until now) and they have proven that "man will dominate man to his injury". We see the fruits of this world and they are not those of the fruits of the Spirit.
At Armageddon Jehovah God will bring an end to Satans rule, and all those who follow him. He will then set up his Kingdom upon the earth, so that it will never be brought to ruin. Then he will set up the earth to be the paradise it was meant to be.

All humans choice is simple. Continue to be mislead by satan and continue following his world until it destruction, thus proving yourself against God and His people, or come to an accurate knowledge of the truth that the bible teaches and become one of God's people. Its your choice.

Amen brother! :clap

Yes of course there is more to religion than meets the eye.

 

[MoonWater]

Why dont you believe in Satan? isnt this word evidence enough that it is not run by a God of Love?

By "word" I'm assuming you mean "bible" right? I don't take the bible as authoritative. I also don't believe in "a god of love". I see humans being in charge of humans and mother nature as being in charge of nature. I believe the troubles of the world come from human extremism and from us trying to exert dominion over that which we were not meant to have dominion over, that is mother nature. We can't control the earth anymore than she can control us, but the more we try to control her the more we hurt her.

As for satan I just don't see any reason to believe in him. I see the concept of satan as a scapegoat that people use to try and avoid taking responsibility for what they have done. I personally find "the devil made me do it" mentality to be counter-intuitive and counter-productive. We won't be able to change the world and make it better until we open our eyes take responsibility for what we've done and start working to change our ways and undo the damage we've caused as much as we can.

 

[lockyfan]

By "word" I'm assuming you mean "bible" right? I don't take the bible as authoritative. I also don't believe in "a god of love". I see humans being in charge of humans and mother nature as being in charge of nature. I believe the troubles of the world come from human extremism and from us trying to exert dominion over that which we were not meant to have dominion over, that is mother nature. We can't control the earth anymore than she can control us, but the more we try to control her the more we hurt her.

As for satan I just don't see any reason to believe in him. I see the concept of satan as a scapegoat that people use to try and avoid taking responsibility for what they have done. I personally find "the devil made me do it" mentality to be counter-intuitive and counter-productive. We won't be able to change the world and make it better until we open our eyes take responsibility for what we've done and start working to change our ways and undo the damage we've caused as much as we can.

I actually mispelled it it is meant to be World

also i agree that blaming someone else for your actions is wrong, its your choice to do it, a God given free will.

Also it is not for humans to take upon themselves to change the world, though any attempt to do this is admirable, it is going ot have to take a global move from Jehovah God to fix the problems this earth has.

 

[MoonWater]

I actually mispelled it it is meant to be World

ah, okay

also i agree that blaming someone else for your actions is wrong, its your choice to do it, a God given free will.

So except for the god given part we are in agreement here

Also it is not for humans to take upon themselves to change the world, though any attempt to do this is admirable, it is going ot have to take a global move from Jehovah God to fix the problems this earth has.

Now here is where we really disagree. In fact to be honest I believe it is this very mentality, the mentality of "there is nothing we can do" "we have to leave it to someone else" "someone else will take care of it" etc., that stops many people from trying to change the way things are. If we have free will why would we not be able to change the world? The only way I would agree with you is if by world you meant nature, that is you meant we cannot change nature itself. But even here that's not entirely true as we certainly can and have changed nature by changing the landscape, but we can only change certain aspects and only to a certain extent and we can't control it. In this instance I would merely replace the words "jehova god" with nature and say that it would take an act of nature to drastically change nature, but again even that's not entirely true.

 

[Druswid]

Oh great, people who really believe that the big red guy with the rubber tail, horns and a pitchfork is responsible for all the evil in the world. Do you honestly know how ridiculous that sounds? People are responsible for their own evil. Some people are driven by greed, or a combination of greed and fear, while others may be mentally unstable and not wholly responsible for their acts. The scope of human actions, from the greatest good to the foulest evil, can be explained by looking at the human psyche. Saying that the devil is the source of all the evil in the world is the easy way out, so people can say somehow that they did evil, but God will make them better. Right. So you're saying that all the KKK and the white supremacists out there who supposedly believe in God are good people? Or perhaps they're evil people and they aren't praying hard enough, or something, and the devil spurred them on. Blind, dogmatic reliance on the Bible as the source of your entire life's philosophy makes people ignorant, as well as often times fear and hate mongers. Not all Christians are bad people, but a lot of the most vociferous ones I've read about need a serious readjustment of their world views. If you go around bombing abortion clinics or raising hate parades against gays, or worse, killing them, if you're a racist spurred on by what you've read in the Bible, it seems to me that maybe the Bible is the source of evil some people are taking their inspiration. And guess who the Bible was written by? Mortal, frail men, who are every bit as susceptible to greed and fear and what have you that all of us are today.

 

[Princess Of Peace]

Satan came from God, so God is the root of all evil.