The reason why Christianity is so popular.

[Elessar]

Popularity of Christianity was celebrated by a murdering rampage, killing every pagan in Rome (apart from Emperor Constantine) that did not convert. Hows that for a violent start? Even Eusebuis documents this, and he loved Constantine so maybe he saw it as a moral victory?
Before Constantine christianity was definately not popular, and many christians were killed for being christian.

Considering that Christianity was formed by St. Paul in the first century C.E., and the massacres you mention happen in the fourth century C.E...how, pray tell, does a minority manage to massacre or forcibly convert the majority?

 

[darkendless]

Considering that Christianity was formed by St. Paul in the first century C.E., and the massacres you mention happen in the fourth century C.E...how, pray tell, does a minority manage to massacre or forcibly convert the majority?

You asked about the popularity of Christianity which is what the thread is about. No one cared about Christianity much until Constantine stopped persecuting Christians and instead began persecuting pagans. Flavius wrote that Constantines "favours" to the christians resulted in a city war within Rome between christians and pagans.

Before constantine christianity was very much like a lot of religions of the time, much like a cult. In my final year of schooling we did a complete study of Roman history from Romulus and Remus up to Constantine IV. Nothing about christianity is mentioned until Constantine began his civil wars which ended in sole rule of the empire.

 

[emiliano]

To Panda....

This post is ultimately pointless to you, because you see nothing except what your blindfolds permit, but this is is for the other people out there trying to help you see that this is not a matter of popularity or of goodness. It's a matter of seeking truth. Twisting words do not change the intent, or the word.
This is what these people are doing? And your good self has join in “Hopefully this helps?” and I’ll give some pointer that could help to make your posts of any use, you wrote: Just wanted to comment on a few things here. Firstly, Yeshua probably wouldn't have wanted Christianity to be the ultimate popularity contest, and would be ashamed that you see it as such” the first thing you should do is to read the posts, the OP mover ask what could be the reasons for Christianity’s popularity, I am a Christian and what we believe is Act 1:8 But you shall receive power, the Holy Spirit coming upon you. And you shall be witnesses to Me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and to the end of the earth. What has made Christianity so popular is a power that is beyond some people’s understanding. He think that it is the crusades I base my opinion in the fact that all rational being are attracted to what is good. And the crusades were no good. And really this post of your is not only pointless but it is crap.
However, you, personally, probably were born into your faith. This means that 1) You didn't really have a choice to make up your mind from a young age. 2) You probably knew nothing else but the Bible since you're evangelical. 3) You only hear what you want to hear.
You don’t know any of this, you do not now what my religious walk has been, you assume all of this, and also I give you a warning don’t get personal with me. I hope that this help you!

 

[emiliano]

No, the herd mentality doesn't have that qualifier...honestly, I don't feel like going into complex psychological explanations about group motivations, nor do I think you would really listen even if I did. It's been a long day.
As for "been force to believe something that you perceive as not been good is …..??????"-- ...is being forced. That's the point of force, you do it (whether you think it's good or not), or you die. Actions of the mass don't necessarily have to be perceived as good by the individual. Just less-bad than the consequences.
I think that if you use the argument that you believe people were logical enough to look at whether or not the outcome of Christianity was positive or negative and convert because of that, then I think that kind of contradicts your *poof!* conversion when people read the gospels. One is logic-based and the other more mystical in nature. And, despite hearing the gospels, many pagans continued to worship their gods in secret.
Using force to convert and attributing that to Christianity's popularity? I call that history. And logical. It's not like it's the only religion that's used force to gain more followers. As I said, though, I don't believe it is the only cause for the spread of Christianity. Just one of many contributing factors. I don't feel like there is one "main" reason. I'm not arguing that reading the gospels doesn't convert some people, simply that I don't think you should so utterly discount other reasons.

Ugh. Hope that made sense. Very little sleep and no food since six this morning. Kinda light-headed...gonna go eat now lol :cover:

My point is that what made Christianity spread to what it is day required committed converts that went around preaching, a person that said that it was converted to save his skin does not qualify as an evangelist. I am sure that you realised that I can do the same to your statement “despite hearing the gospels, many pagans continued to worship their gods in secret” if this is so they continue been pagans and not converts, and hardly evangelist material, don’t you think? When you say “As I said, though, I don't believe it is the only cause for the spread of Christianity. Just one of many contributing factors” You are not answering the question of the OP, My answer is that it is a power that converts and the reason that I discount all other reasons is that all rational being are attracted to what is good, a secret/underground pagan will not convert anybody, and least his family (that it is the way that Christianity spreads) to the religion that was imposed on him unless he believes that is this is good. To say that this contribute in any measure to the spreading of Christianity is ……..?

 

[Stellify]

My point is that what made Christianity spread to what it is day required committed converts that went around preaching, a person that said that it was converted to save his skin does not qualify as an evangelist.

So you think the sole way Christianity has spread so far is evangelization?
I'm not discounting the effect it has had, only that some of that evangelization took place with the threat of a sword behind it.

When you say “As I said, though, I don't believe it is the only cause for the spread of Christianity. Just one of many contributing factors” You are not answering the question of the OP

If you would take another look at the OP....?

Because of this thing called the crusades where christians went around killing hundreds of thousands of people in the name of "god".
Agree or Disagree?

Obviously, I am answering. I am saying that I do indeed agree to a certain extent. Just because I'm not naive enough to think that there's only one reason that Christianity is a major religion in today's world doesn't mean that I'm not answering the OP...

My answer is that it is a power that converts and the reason that I discount all other reasons is that all rational being are attracted to what is good,

Any way to back up your belief that all rational beings are attracted to what is good? I've read a number of philosophical debates about whether or not this is true...but they're philosophical in nature, not factual.

a secret/underground pagan will not convert anybody, and least his family (that it is the way that Christianity spreads) to the religion that was imposed on him unless he believes that is this is good. To say that this contribute in any measure to the spreading of Christianity is ……..?

I never said that those who didn't take up the religion whole-heartedly would evangelize :sarcastic I said that they would be the ones forced to conversion by those that did believe. And, I imagine, some of those that converted this way did end up taking on the Christian belief system as their own. At which point they would probably have gone on to spread their new-found belief around. My argument doesn't completely supersede yours, you know. I just think that it kind put Christianity on the map.

 

[Elessar]

You asked about the popularity of Christianity which is what the thread is about. No one cared about Christianity much until Constantine stopped persecuting Christians and instead began persecuting pagans. Flavius wrote that Constantines "favours" to the christians resulted in a city war within Rome between christians and pagans.

Before constantine christianity was very much like a lot of religions of the time, much like a cult. In my final year of schooling we did a complete study of Roman history from Romulus and Remus up to Constantine IV. Nothing about christianity is mentioned until Constantine began his civil wars which ended in sole rule of the empire.

The point is, why did Constantine stop persecuting Christians and start persecuting pagans? Christianity must have been, at least to some point, popular enough to merit this change in policy. Why would anyone who intended to maintain power persecute the minority?

Thus, Christianity must have become, over centuries, the most, or one of the most, popular religions in the Empire before it became the official religion. How did it gain this popularity?

 

[darkendless]

The point is, why did Constantine stop persecuting Christians and start persecuting pagans? Christianity must have been, at least to some point, popular enough to merit this change in policy. Why would anyone who intended to maintain power persecute the minority?

Thus, Christianity must have become, over centuries, the most, or one of the most, popular religions in the Empire before it became the official religion. How did it gain this popularity?

The victory of Christianity as the official and only tolerated religion of the Empire coincided chronologically with the beginning of the mass invasion of the Germans into the Western Empire. In fact, many of the Germans had been "converted" to Christianity before their invasion of Western Europe.
As for why the Germans became Chrstian, who knows? Germanic history is a lot harder to track down. Maybe they too, like the Scandanavians were plagued by massive wars where kings decided the spiritiual conversion for their subjects. Those who did not were killed by their former brothers and sisters.
As a result popularity started rising most likely and Constantine, as expected reversed his decision to persecute christians.

 

[Luminous]

Christianity is sooooooo popular because there are a lot of Christians.

 

[Smoke]

The point is, why did Constantine stop persecuting Christians and start persecuting pagans?

I don't think Constantine ever persecuted Christians or started persecuting pagans. He did put restrictions on Jews.

 

[darkendless]

I don't think Constantine ever persecuted Christians or started persecuting pagans. He did put restrictions on Jews.

No he (being his leadership) persecuted both, in their thousands.

 

[Smoke]

No he (being his leadership) persecuted both, in their thousands.

Can you give examples?

 

[emiliano]

So you think the sole way Christianity has spread so far is evangelization?
I'm not discounting the effect it has had, only that some of that evangelization took place with the threat of a sword behind it

If you would take another look at the OP....?
Obviously, I am answering. I am saying that I do indeed agree to a certain extent. Just because I'm not naive enough to think that there's only one reason that Christianity is a major religion in today's world doesn't mean that I'm not answering the OP...
Any way to back up your belief that all rational beings are attracted to what is good? I've read a number of philosophical debates about whether or not this is true...but they're philosophical in nature, not factual.
I never said that those who didn't take up the religion whole-heartedly would evangelize :sarcastic I said that they would be the ones forced to conversion by those that did believe. And, I imagine, some of those that converted this way did end up taking on the Christian belief system as their own. At which point they would probably have gone on to spread their new-found belief around. My argument doesn't completely supersede yours, you know. I just think that it kind put Christianity on the map.

OK, let see “The reason why Christianity is so popular.
Because of this thing called the crusades where christians went around killing hundreds of thousands of people in the name of "god".
Agree or Disagree?
This is a closed question requiring a yes or not answer, is the reason the war that we called the crusades. Yes or not? To become popular Christianity needs to increase the numbers of it followers, to convert greater numbers to their ranks than those that are put off by the actions of Christians, it has been said that the Crusades provoque a resentment against Christianity from those that were forced to say that they became converts. So the answer must be no, and saying that it can have any other answer is absurd/illogical.

 

[darkendless]

Can you give examples?

Around the time of his rise to power, there was a civil war between pagans and christians. His loyalty was obvious;
"Constantine entered Rome on 29 October.[162] He staged a grand adventus in the city, and was met with popular jubilation.[163] Maxentius' body was fished out of the Tiber and decapitated. His head was paraded through the streets for all to see.[164] After the ceremonies, Maxentius' disembodied head was sent to Carthage, after which Africa gave no further resistance.[165] He entered as a Christian: unlike his predecessors, he neglected to make the trip to the Capitoline Hill and perform customary sacrifices at the Temple of Jupiter."

This was the start of his "Christian rule."

Constantine is perhaps best known for being the first Christian Roman Emperor. His reign was a turning point for the Christian Church. In 313 Constantine announced toleration of Christianity in the Edict of Milan, which removed penalties for professing Christianity (under which many had been martyred in previous persecutions of Christians) and returned confiscated Church property. Though a similar edict had been issued in 311 by Galerius, then senior emperor of the Tetrarchy, Galerius' edict granted Christians the right to practice their religion but did not restore any property to them. [191]


Prior to 313 CHristianity involved a lot of pain.

 

[emiliano]

Because of this thing called the crusades where christians went around killing hundreds of thousands of people in the name of "god".
Agree or Disagree?

This is something interesting that I read in the net:

It's important to remember, though, that during the Middle Ages -- really up until the late 16th century -- the superpower of the Western world was Islam. Muslim civilizations were wealthy, sophisticated and immensely powerful. The West was backward and relatively weak.

It is noteworthy that with the exception of the First Crusade virtually every other Crusade launched by the West -- and there were hundreds -- was unsuccessful.
ZENIT - What the Crusades Were Really Like (Part 2)

I strongly disagree:shout

 

[Smoke]

Around the time of his rise to power, there was a civil war between pagans and christians. His loyalty was obvious;
"Constantine entered Rome on 29 October.[162] He staged a grand adventus in the city, and was met with popular jubilation.[163] Maxentius' body was fished out of the Tiber and decapitated. His head was paraded through the streets for all to see.[164] After the ceremonies, Maxentius' disembodied head was sent to Carthage, after which Africa gave no further resistance.[165] He entered as a Christian: unlike his predecessors, he neglected to make the trip to the Capitoline Hill and perform customary sacrifices at the Temple of Jupiter."

This was the start of his "Christian rule."

Constantine is perhaps best known for being the first Christian Roman Emperor. His reign was a turning point for the Christian Church. In 313 Constantine announced toleration of Christianity in the Edict of Milan, which removed penalties for professing Christianity (under which many had been martyred in previous persecutions of Christians) and returned confiscated Church property. Though a similar edict had been issued in 311 by Galerius, then senior emperor of the Tetrarchy, Galerius' edict granted Christians the right to practice their religion but did not restore any property to them. [191]


Prior to 313 CHristianity involved a lot of pain.

The power struggle between Maxentius and Constantine was hardly "a civil war between pagans and christians," and you have presented no evidence that Constantine ever ordered the persecution of Christians or of pagans.

 

[ChristineES]

I wonder how many people call themselves Christians in order to conform.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I wonder how many people call themselves Christians in order to conform.

I would guess about 99.9%.

 

[tomspug]

I would guess about 99.9%.

Ouch. But this day and age (in America) it sounds pretty accurate.

Although you have to count the Christians who conformed, left the church, and then came back as not being conformists.

 

[Stellify]

OK, let see “The reason why Christianity is so popular.
Because of this thing called the crusades where christians went around killing hundreds of thousands of people in the name of "god".
Agree or Disagree?
This is a closed question requiring a yes or not answer, is the reason the war that we called the crusades. Yes or not? To become popular Christianity needs to increase the numbers of it followers, to convert greater numbers to their ranks than those that are put off by the actions of Christians, it has been said that the Crusades provoque a resentment against Christianity from those that were forced to say that they became converts. So the answer must be no, and saying that it can have any other answer is absurd/illogical.

What are you not getting? I said that yes, I do agree to a certain extent. If you're not even going to pay attention to the posts, then stop debating. If you want to be so literal in your interpretation of the OP, then you should have just left your answer as "no" and stopped posting. Sheesh. Just because someone doesn't go along with your opinions (which you don't really back up with anything more significant than "because I say so") doesn't make their opinions absurd or illogical. It simply makes you narrow-minded in your blatant dismissal of any ideas that don't match your own. :sarcastic

 

[darkendless]

The power struggle between Maxentius and Constantine was hardly "a civil war between pagans and christians," and you have presented no evidence that Constantine ever ordered the persecution of Christians or of pagans.

Pagan History 102

(also see: Pagan History 101)

0. In the ancient world religious persecution was rare prior to the rise of Christianity - and when persecutions occurred they were limited in their scope and duration. When Christians attained state power, during the reign of Constantine, persecution became the rule, rather than the exception. Persecution of all religions other than Christianity, as well as intense persecution within Christianity itself, became a permanent feature everywhere that Christians were in power.

Before this is it pretty much common knowledge that Christians were persecuted for practising their religion openly. Constantine is not mentioned because as a Christian, writers chose to gloss over a few facts. I wish i had my old history text so i could show you the page on Christian persecution.