The reasons of abortions: why women have abortions

[Shaul]

"Equivalency" is your term...a straw man.

You created the equivalency. You were the one that brought up child service providers as comparable to abortionists.

There are people who make money providing abortions.
You seem to offer this as evidence that abortion rights
exist only to enrich them.

It doesn't seem that way at all. I simply pointed out, correctly, that one of the reasons abortion happens is because of the money involved.

But you don't apply that standard to those who profit
from births.

And again this is apples and oranges. But since you insist, I will point out something else you will probably find inconvenient. Child care providers and teachers and woefully underpaid. Meanwhile abortionists are not.

And now we get to your real argument, ie,
that the fetus is a "child", & that abortion
is the same as murdering a child.
All this criticism of profit making is just an
anti-capitalist ruse.

That wasn't my "argument". I merely stated the fact that abortionists kill children while the other providers you mentioned do not.

It's not a truism when it offers no truth.
"Follow the money" is merely a dictate to look
at something. It says naught about what
will be found or what it means. So it's merely
a vapid cliche when wielded without analysis.

But it is true that abortion providers make money off of abortions. So it is true.

 

[HonestJoe]

You seem to be making a whole load of unsupported assumptions here and I'm really not sure what your underlying point is.

According to this pie chart, the nearly totality women have abortions because of unwanted pregnancy.

As has been pointed out, this is from an questionable source and doesn't cover the actual reasons for that purported 95%. It is merely being used to highlight (and possibly exaggerate) the proportion of nominally elective abortions.

I wonder why. I want to investigate Americans' sex life to understand why the abortion rate is so big.

The statistic you quoted doesn't establish the scale of the US abortion rate though. As it happens, it is higher than a number of (but not all) other developed countries but not exceptionally so.

Regardless, I suspect a key factor is legality and access to abortion services (I gather abortion is still technically illegal in Germany for example). Social and cultural factors could certainly play a part too and some element of clinical fertility differences may exist, but I doubt they're as significant a factor in (reported) abortion rates.

I am noting that the unwanted pregnancy rate also varies a lot, according to the wealth of the country. But I see that there's something that doesn't add up between the unwanted pregnancies rate and the abortion rate in high income countries.

Again, I suspect access is more significance that relative national income measures there (though they would be inevitably linked in part), as is legality.

I am just saying that German and Swiss hormonal pills are the best in the world.
That is why the rate of unwanted pregnancies is very low in the UE.

I've no idea what you're basing that claim on. Mainstream pharmaceuticals like birth control pills are an international market and I very much doubt the pills available in Europe are significantly different to those available in the US.

 

[Revoltingest]

You created the equivalency. You were the one that brought up child service providers as comparable to abortionists.

I don't claim "equivalency".
Only that they both benefit financially from their functions.
A similarity does not make things "equivalent".

It doesn't seem that way at all. I simply pointed out, correctly, that one of the reasons abortion happens is because of the money involved.

Duh!
If no one were compensated for performing
abortions & related health care, then of course
there would be far fewer such services performed.

But it is true that abortion providers make money off of abortions. So it is true.

You appear to be arguing that if someone
makes money off a service, then that service
exists only because people make money, ie,
it's corrupt.
But it's also true that obstetricians make
money off of births. Therefore obstetrics is
also corrupt. Reductio ad absurdum.

 

[Estro Felino]

criticizing abortion when a profit is made,
but silence when taxes pay for it.

It's because healthcare is a public asset.
A healthy society is a society where women are free not to have children. That's why it's absolutely just that the public money is used to fund abortions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The burden of counter-proof is on you. Show me the real statistics.

The reasons for abortion: Statistics, safety, and access

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Other responsibilities​

Around 29% of people mentioned that they needed to focus on their other children. They said they already felt overextended with their current children and would be overwhelmed by having another. A small percentage of people thought that having a baby would adversely affect their other children and quality of life.

Additionally, about 20% of people reported having an abortion because the timing would interfere with their future opportunities and goals. They felt they could not continue their education or advance their careers while raising a baby.

Emotions and mental health​

Around 19% of people in the study expressed that they were emotionally or mentally unprepared for a child. They mentioned not having the mental capacity to have a baby or not feeling mentally stable enough to raise a child.

Other health-related reasons​

Approximately 12% of individuals mentioned the following health-related reasons for having an abortion:

• concerns for their health
• concerns for the health of the fetus
• drug, tobacco, or alcohol use
• non-illicit prescription drug or birth control use
• worsening of existing health issues, such as back pain and diabetes
• mental health concerns
• the effect of medications for existing health conditions on the fetus

Inability to provide for a baby​

Some people — around 12% — chose abortion because of their desire for a better life for the child than they could provide. They mentioned feeling inadequate and unable to care for themselves or a child.

Other people said their housing situation was unsuitable for a baby.

Not independent or mature enough for a baby​

Just under 7% of people reported a lack of maturity or said they had to rely on other people. Some explained that they felt they were too young for a baby and were unprepared for parenthood.

Influences from family and friends​

About 5% of people described influences from family and friends as a reason they chose abortion. They worried that a child would be a strain on their family or that they would experience judgment from others.

Some people had an abortion because they were too scared to tell their parents about their pregnancy, while a small proportion had pressure from family to end their pregnancy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But it's also true that obstetricians make
money off of births. Therefore obstetrics is
also corrupt. Reductio ad absurdum.

No, they just want more people to die.

 

[Estro Felino]

You seem to be making a whole load of unsupported assumptions here and I'm really not sure what your underlying point is.

As has been pointed out, this is from an questionable source and doesn't cover the actual reasons for that purported 95%. It is merely being used to highlight (and possibly exaggerate) the proportion of nominally elective abortions.

I want a valid source about the percentage of abortions due to unwanted pregnancies.
Which mean that the baby is 100%, and it deals with a 100% risks-free pregnancy.

Regardless, I suspect a key factor is legality and access to abortion services (I gather abortion is still technically illegal in Germany for example). Social and cultural factors could certainly play a part too and some element of clinical fertility differences may exist, but I doubt they're as significant a factor in (reported) abortion rates.

It's legal in Germany.

I've no idea what you're basing that claim on. Mainstream pharmaceuticals like birth control pills are an international market and I very much doubt the pills available in Europe are significantly different to those available in the US.

Do you want sources? Here are the sources. Here pharmaceuticals are not a business, they are a matter of state. Quality first, profits last.

5 Reasons Why Germany is One of the World’s Best Pharmaceutical Markets

According to Germany Trade and Invest (GTAI), Germany is home to Europe’s largest pharmaceutical market, and the world’s fourth largest. In 2019, this market was valued at $41.4 billion, and was predicted to grow at an annual rate of 6% from 2020 to 2027, with some of the world’s largest...

www.pharmiweb.jobs

How the U.S. Pays 3 Times More for Drugs

In Britain the world's 20 top-selling medicines are three times cheaper than in the U.S.

www.scientificamerican.com

US drug prices higher than in the rest of the world, here’s why

The discrepancy in drug pricing between the U.S. and other countries continues to draw attention.

thehill.com

 

[Estro Felino]

The reasons for abortion: Statistics, safety, and access

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Very informative.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's because healthcare is a public asset.

You express a political agenda.
That's independent of abortion rights.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, they just want more people to die.

But only from dangerous pregnancies & botched abortions.
An aborted fetus is a hideous crime.
A dead mother is God's will.

 

[Doc Helpful]

I suspect some of it is a leftover puritanical mindset about sex; we love it in media and in the nightlife, but talking about it in broad daylight is forbidden. Sex education? That's apparently grooming. So we sell sex with halfhearted warnings about consequences and an obsolete-nails-on-a-chalkboard "Just don't do it."

That and healthcare. Healthcare is expensive. Raising a baby is expensive. Having a baby is expensive and dangerous. America has a high rate of death during childbirth.

Expense and stigmatization makes contraception tricky. Can one get free condoms in school? Sure, but will they? And outside of school, buying contraception requires money and a public transaction.

The fact that adolescents have access to free condoms during the school year might explain why many teens become pregnant in summer when condoms are not available for free?

 

[Left Coast]

I'm only finding general groupings, no hard statistics, I just don't trust statistics from anti-abortion 'institutes'.

I am not pro-abortion, it should be a last resort but there are many valid reasons beyond the survey you posted.

This is from 2005:

"The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. Fewer than 1% said their parents' or partners' desire for them to have an abortion was the most important reason. Younger women often reported that they were unprepared for the transition to motherhood, while older women regularly cited their responsibility to dependents."

Reasons U.S. Women Have Abortions: Quantitative and Qualitative Perspectives

Public discussion about abortion in the United States has generally focused on policy: who should be allowed to have abortions, and under what circumstances. Receiving less attention are the women behind the statistics—the 1.3 million women who obtain abortions each year1—and their reasons for...

www.guttmacher.org

From 2013:

Understanding why women seek abortions in the US - BMC Women's Health

Background The current political climate with regards to abortion in the US, along with the economic recession may be affecting women’s reasons for seeking abortion, warranting a new investigation into the reasons why women seek abortion. Methods Data for this study were drawn from baseline...

bmcwomenshealth.biomedcentral.com

And another study from 2017:

https://www.contraceptionjournal.org/article/S0010-7824(17)30188-9/fulltext

 

[Estro Felino]

You express a political agenda.
That's independent of abortion rights.

I just want to eliminate suffering because I want people to be happy.

You were not made to live like brutes,
but to pursue virtue and knowledge.
Dante Alighieri.

 

[Estro Felino]

This is from 2005:

"The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. Fewer than 1% said their parents' or partners' desire for them to have an abortion was the most important reason. Younger women often reported that they were unprepared for the transition to motherhood, while older women regularly cited their responsibility to dependents."

Reasons U.S. Women Have Abortions: Quantitative and Qualitative Perspectives

Public discussion about abortion in the United States has generally focused on policy: who should be allowed to have abortions, and under what circumstances. Receiving less attention are the women behind the statistics—the 1.3 million women who obtain abortions each year1—and their reasons for...

www.guttmacher.org

Another study from 2017:

https://www.contraceptionjournal.org/article/S0010-7824(17)30188-9/fulltext

In my country prostitution is legal.
Prostitutes are usually childless and most of them have never had an abortion in their life.
And we are speaking of women who have sex the most.
More than married women.
So if they succeed in avoiding unwanted pregnancies, so can the other women.

But there's too much carelessness. And most of the times from the most educated people. That's why uneducated prostitutes are smarter, sometimes.

There's a famous case in my country of a woman with two degrees who got pregnant after meeting a random man at a party.
He turned to be a murderer.

 

[Left Coast]

In my country prostitution is legal.
Prostitutes are usually childless and most of them have never had an abortion in their life.
And we are speaking of women who have sex the most.
More than married women.
So if they succeed in avoiding unwanted pregnancies, so can the other women.

But there's too much carelessness. And most of the times from the most educated people. That's why uneducated prostitutes are smarter, sometimes.

There's a famous case in my country of a woman with two degrees who got pregnant after meeting a random man at a party.
He turned to be a murderer.

Per usual, you are short on data but full of generalizations from random anecdotes you've heard.

 

[Estro Felino]

Per usual, you are short on data but full of generalizations from random anecdotes you've heard.

But I have tons of female friends. Tens of friends and cousins. We are big families.
They all take the pills. None of them has ever had an abortion.
Only pills: hormonal pills and morning after pills.
So unwanted pregnancies are avoidable, unless one is careless.

 

[Left Coast]

But I have tons of female friends. Tens of friends and cousins. We are big families.
They all take the pills. None of them has ever had an abortion.
Only pills: hormonal pills and morning after pills.
So unwanted pregnancies are avoidable, unless one is careless.

My friend was conceived despite his mother both being on the pill and his dad using a condom. Neat, we both have anecdotes that lead to opposite conclusions.

You know why it's a bad idea to draw conclusions from anecdotes, yes?

 

[Estro Felino]

My friend was conceived despite his mother both being on the pill and his dad using a condom. Neat, we both have anecdotes that lead to opposite conclusions.

There can be several explanations
A) she wouldn't take the pill regularly
B) European hormonal pills are more effective
C) American males' fertility is so high that pills are ineffective.

You know why it's a bad idea to draw conclusions from anecdotes, yes?

Then explain me why Italy has one of the lowest birth rates in the world. Do you think Italians don't have sex? Or have sex very rarely?
This is not an anecdote. It's data. It's numbers.

 

[McBell]

Then explain me why Italy has one of the lowest birth rates in the world. Do you think Italians don't have sex? Or have sex very rarely?
This is not an anecdote. It's data. It's numbers.

“The economic issues and lack of welfare support influences the birthrate, but a long-term trend is that there are fewer women to have children,” said Giorgia Serughetti, a sociologist at the University of Milan-Bicocca.​

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[Estro Felino]

“The economic issues and lack of welfare support influences the birthrate, but a long-term trend is that there are fewer women to have children,” said Giorgia Serughetti, a sociologist at the University of Milan-Bicocca.​

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I am speaking of Italians' sex habits.
This thread is about sex and contraception.