The ressurrection of you!

[Scuba Pete]

A spirit needs a body.

I disagree with this singular premise. What body does the Spirit have right now? None, nada, squat. You just can't relate to it, that's all.

 

[Heneni]

My previous post and this one talks about spirits sleeping.

David speaking:

then let my enemy pursue and overtake me;
let him trample my life to the ground
and make me sleep in the dust.

David speaking again:

3Look on me and answer, O LORD my God.
Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death;
4my enemy will say, "I have overcome him,"
and my foes will rejoice when I fall.

David speaking:
5You sweep men away in the sleep of death;
they are like the new grass of the morning--
6though in the morning it springs up new,
by evening it is dry and withered

Love
Heneni

 

[Heneni]

Lol Scuba

Look at your hands. Is it part of your body? Then your spirit has a body.:yes:

Heneni

 

[Scuba Pete]

My poor hands. They used to be SO strong. They have been abused by a life of working on cars for a living. Cars bite, and I have had multiple surgeries on them. I am glad I won't need them when I am all spirit. Then my body will be incorruptible.

 

[Troublemane]

A spirit needs a body. That body must be suitable for the environment the spirit finds itself in.

The body is the clothes or garment of the spirit.

When the environment changes, so does the clothes that the spirit has on. The body of the spirit must change to accomadate the new environment.

So the resurrected body is a garment, wrapped around the spirit to make it suitable to live in heaven.

Yeah, that makes sense. I think we come to earth through our parents, and we choose our parents because of the potential they may offer for experience. Like how some couples may try for years to have a kid but it doesnt happen, because the child they are supposed to have isnt ready yet, or maybe they are supposed to adopt. I think the creator/God, etc, has a way of making it all work out. If we listen to the little voice, that is, thats guiding us

Angles, when they are on this earth, take on the form of a human body, the human body being the garment needed to adapt to the environment.

Now thats something i have heard, but have never experienced. People have said they met a person who warned them about somethig, and turned around and they were gone. I have also heard stories about angels that appeared as beings of pure light. I myself have only experienced angels as beings that touched me, I couldn't see them. They put their hands through me and caressed me, at a particularly difficult time in life. Couldnt see em but could definitely feel them

A spirit can enter a donkey or anything really.

This I identify with what may be called a demonic spirit, which I know to be real---but the harm really comes from intentionality. Like when you hate someone with a burning hatred, sometimes that hate can spring away from you and take on a life of its own. I have a belief that these little imps/demonic beings arise from this process, and so we must be careful about what we intend for other people. Try to intend only good things, is my motto

You are born naked in this world, your body the garment of the spirit inside of you, but then you put on clothes. This should be enough for us to realise, that like the natural body needs to be clothed, so the natural body is the garment of the spirit.

The resurrected body will therefore be a body that is suitable for the new environment it is going to.

Thats true. if the afterlife/or between world is of a different energy frequency, or maybe operates at a different time rate maybe, i am sure what is real there is non-physical here, and vice-versa. You'd definitely need a new body to function, whether its calle the "astral body" or "angelic body" or what have you

 

[Heneni]

An angel if it had to appear as a bright light would still be clothed in a body.

Light has both wave and particle properties, so the body of the angel can be considered to be matter.

All matter has a wavelenght like light has a wavelength (De broglie)

Shall we talk about the resurrection of the 'wicked' and what the purpose of their resurretion is. We know its judgement, but what happens to them after that, in this resurrected body?

Heneni

 

[Katzpur]

I am glad I won't need them when I am all spirit. Then my body will be incorruptible.

Pete, could you explain what you mean by that? Could you describe what you mean by an incorruptible body? Will you have a form that can be seen? Seen but not touched? I'm just confused by what you mean, not trying to argue with you (at this point, anyway ).

 

[Katzpur]

Here are scriptures that show that there are times that our spirits are sleeping. A sleeping spirit is a spirit that is not on this earth doing whatever it was sent here to do.

A sleeping spirit is a spirit that is not active on this earth, but that exists in either sheol or paradise.

But at any time god can wake the spirit up from its sleep and send it back to earth. I also believe that if you go to paradise, you dont sleep all the time, you learn and grow in wisdom and understanding, so that when you re-enter this world, you can do as your master had taught you to do.

1 Thess 4: 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

1 Tess 5:. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

1 Cor 15: 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

Thanks, Heneni. I guess I am interpreting those differently than you are. To me, they are referring to death -- all of them. Those "who have fallen asleep" means (IMO), those who have died. They would make perfect sense with the following substitutions:

1 Thess 4: 14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have died, believing in Him.

1 Thess 15: According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have died.

1 Tess 5:. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are alive or dead, we may live together with him.

1 Cor 15: 16-18 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then those also who have died believing in Christ are lost. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Maybe you are thinking along a different line entirely, but this seems so obvious to me.

 

[Katzpur]

I tend to view this sleep as simply a metaphor for death. Certainly it appears that a body is sleeping when it is dead and people could think that way when every once in a while a dead person revives. That is why Jesus and Lazarus had to be dead three days so that it would not be construed as a revival but as a resurrection.

I have never read anywhere in the Bible about a spirit sleeping. Sleep is something the body requires.

What do you know, Muffled. We agree on this 100%. That's got to be a first.

 

[Troublemane]

Light has both wave and particle properties, so the body of the angel can be considered to be matter.

All matter has a wavelenght like light has a wavelength (De broglie)

Good point! Perhaps we could understand the apparent duality between matter and spirit in the same way as the difference between particle and wave! I think it has to do with velocity, myself. As anything traveling the speed of light would experience zero time, so relative to it all points in the universe would appear to converge to a single point (i.e., the Light people see in NDE's). Perhaps God dwells there, at the speed of light and so is one with all time and all space.

Shall we talk about the resurrection of the 'wicked' and what the purpose of their resurretion is. We know its judgement, but what happens to them after that, in this resurrected body?

I would think the judgement happens when you meet God. It certainly happened that way for me. the experience I had was of an overpowering awareness looking through me, and by that light I could see what it saw---everything i had ever done, thought or felt, and wow was it pathetic. It made me fall on my knees and apologize for being so pathetic, but the being that was looking at me just seemed amused. Not judging. Just looking. But by its light I saw myself as I truly was--and wow, do i need work! LoL.

I imagine thats what we all have in store for us. I feel sad for the people who think they can hide anything.Theyre in for a surprise!

 

[Scuba Pete]

Pete, could you explain what you mean by that? Could you describe what you mean by an incorruptible body? Will you have a form that can be seen? Seen but not touched? I'm just confused by what you mean, not trying to argue with you (at this point, anyway ).

None of us KNOW what our "body" will be like. We assume and we extropolate, but we just don't know. The scriptures TRY to tell us what heaven will be like, but it's like trying to explain colors to a blind person. Heck, it's like trying to explain sight. Let's look at this passage:

I Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory NIV

I think an different version uses incorruptible. Here, in the NIV, they use the term imperishable. Now re-read the very first statement: FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!

Kind reminds me of that classic line from Star Trek: "It's life Jim, but not as we know it."

 

[Heneni]

Hello katzspur

Do you think the spirit dies when we die? Im know you dont. So where does it go? It goes to sleep, which means its not dead, but sleeping somewhere. Its from this sleep that we are awakened and sent to the earth again to do kingdom work. The spirit when it dies can be conscious or not conscious of what is happening around it. When it is conscious it is learning, when it is not conscious it is sleeping. The great cloud of witnesses are spirits that are not asleep. They are conscious. Spirits that are sleeping are not conscious for the duration of their sleep. Daniel was told to sleep until the time he will inherit the promises of God. But their are other spirits that are said to be witnesses to us, therefore must be active.

Daniel 12:13
13"As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."
LOL.

What do you think about the resurrection of the wicked? i know you believe that few people will got to hell, what will the people that the bible refers to as wicked be doing with a resurrected body?

 

[Heneni]

I would think the judgement happens when you meet God. It certainly happened that way for me.

Id like to think that judgement is an ongoing process , since one can only correct wrongs as we go along the way.

If we keep on messing up, with only one day of Judgement awaiting, we will have no chance to correct our mistakes even if we wanted to.(PS I dont believe this, but its preached a lot). And I doubt we are all so enlightened that we know exactly what the perfect will of god is.

I believe that judgement for a child of god is an ongoing thing and not an upcoming event. We are not judged by God, but we judge ourselves.

So why do the wicked get a resurrected body? The purpose of it is?

I always use the word 'wicked' with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, since it is not my intention to seperata myself from them as being superior. I do hope everyone goes back to god and I think I know how he will do it. But perhaps another thread for that.

Love
Heneni

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Ok so the bible speaks about the resurrection of ALL.

That means the living and the dead, those in christ those not in christ, ALL.

Or is that a misconception?

What exactly is the point of resurrrection? And how do you think god plans on doing all of this?

Are people resssurected from their graves, what about people that are cremated?

Lets start with this....the bible says EVERYONE will be ressurrected. What do you make of this resurrection?

Love
Heneni

John 5:28-29 KJV "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

The Bible also says it is appointed unto man once to die and then judgement. Judging a dead person and sending the the corpe to the lake of fire sounds a bit silly.

 

[Katzpur]

Do you think the spirit dies when we die? Im know you dont.

I don't believe it dies when it leaves the body, no. I believe it is eternal.

So where does it go? It goes to sleep, which means its not dead, but sleeping somewhere.

I disagree, and as I already said, I don't think the scriptures you posted are speaking of the spirit. I think the word "sleep" is used to mean "die." The physical body dies; it appears to be asleep because it is completely inert and cannot be roused.

Its from this sleep that we are awakened and sent to the earth again to do kingdom work.

Could you explain that further?

The spirit when it dies can be conscious or not conscious of what is happening around it. When it is conscious it is learning, when it is not conscious it is sleeping. The great cloud of witnesses are spirits that are not asleep. They are conscious. Spirits that are sleeping are not conscious for the duration of their sleep. Daniel was told to sleep until the time he will inherit the promises of God. But their are other spirits that are said to be witnesses to us, therefore must be active.

Again, I believe that the spirit does not die at all -- ever. It simply ceases to reside within a physical body, giving that body life. I believe it is fully cognizant and is as aware and in tune to its surroundings as it ever was. It is the same, in fact, in every respect as it has been forever. The only difference is that it is temporarily without a body.

What do you think about the resurrection of the wicked? i know you believe that few people will got to hell, what will the people that the bible refers to as wicked be doing with a resurrected body?

I believe that, for the most part, they too will be in Heaven. They will receive a degree of heavenly glory, but not the fullness of the glory they could have received had the been obedient. I believe that if they refuse to accept Jesus' sacrifice on their behalf, they will be made to pay the price for their own sins throughout the Millennium. They will not have been privileged to have Him take upon himself the guilt for their sins. Once they have felt the remorse and guilt that comes to the unrepentent, they will be granted Heaven. Again, their reward will be less than the reward of those who accepted Jesus as their Redeemer, repented of their sins and tried to live in accordance with His Commandments.

 

[Heneni]

Hello katzpur

You interpret the term sleeping as a substitute for the word dead. So when you are dead, you are sleeping.

I take the word sleeping, as a spirit that is not active, on this planet, therefore the body of that spirit on this earth is dead, but the spirit lives on, but it is sleeping.

So sleeping means the physical body is dead, but the spirit lives on.

Anyway lets not get too involved in sleeping matters. ..

About the resurrection of the wicked and them going to heaven, you said...

believe that, for the most part, they too will be in Heaven. They will receive a degree of heavenly glory, but not the fullness of the glory they could have received had the been obedient. I believe that if they refuse to accept Jesus' sacrifice on their behalf, they will be made to pay the price for their own sins throughout the Millennium. They will not have been privileged to have Him take upon himself the guilt for their sins. Once they have felt the remorse and guilt that comes to the unrepentent, they will be granted Heaven. Again, their reward will be less than the reward of those who accepted Jesus as their Redeemer, repented of their sins and tried to live in accordance with His Commandments.

So then will they have the same resurrected body as we will? The same type?

 

[Katzpur]

So then will they have the same resurrected body as we will? The same type?

I believe so, but I probably should clarify. In 1 Corinthians 15:40-42, Paul says the following: "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead.:

I believe that all will receive new bodies that are immortal, incorruptable and indestructible. From what Paul says, it appears that there will also be some differences. The entire chapter (1 Corinthians 15) deals with the resurrection. It fits in quite well with what we've been talking about.

 

[Katzpur]

None of us KNOW what our "body" will be like. We assume and we extropolate, but we just don't know. The scriptures TRY to tell us what heaven will be like, but it's like trying to explain colors to a blind person. Heck, it's like trying to explain sight. Let's look at this passage:

I Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory NIV

I think an different version uses incorruptible. Here, in the NIV, they use the term imperishable. Now re-read the very first statement: FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!

Throughout the Bible, the phrase "flesh and blood" is used to refer to man in his mortal state. This verse is no exception. The mortal body is not the body that will be raised. It will be transformed into an immortal (i.e. imperishable) body. That doesn't mean anything other than what it plainly states. It simply means that the resurrected body is imperishable and immortal. Neither "imperishable" nor "immortal" has anything to do with the appearance, form or makeup of the body. Neither of these words means that the new body cannot have a physical substance. Would you agree?

 

[Heneni]

I see where you are coming from, i.t.o most people go to heaven, but I believe as you do, that there is going to have to be some sacrifice on their part to do so.

So what I think is going to happen, is that the children of god is resurrected and given a new body suitable for heaven. The 'wicked' is given the same body they had before they died, or keep the one they have if they are not dead. It will look the same and it will have the same appearance, it will be human, and it will be exactly the way it looks now, give our take a few pimples.It will completely natural like the one we have now.

This body of the wicked together with their spirit is not sent to hell, it is already in hell. This earth being hell and quickly warming up too. The body of the resurrected wicked is unable to die, because the spirit inside of it, has no where to go other than back to hell, (earth). So there is no point in leaving the body, if it cant go anywhere else. So it is stuck here, and stuck in a body that is able to decay.

As long as the spirit is alive in that body, the body keeps on going, and even if the body does die, it will decay with the spirit in it, walking around with it. No sleeping in hell.

This earth will be where people are weeping and where there is wailing and where there is violence and hatred and rape and murder and all the nasty things you can imagine happening here, without any restraint, since God and his children and the HS have left the earth. Satan will be roaming free here completely uninhibated.

He doesnt like you, he doesnt want to get you on his side, there is no point in that then, he hates you and wants to torture and kill as much as he can.

Looking into the eyes of satan knowing that there will never be any mercy there for you, no feeling of remorse, no feelings at all, will make you shiver when he comes your way. You will be living in fear and war, and pests, and sickness, and filt. No one to turn to. No one to save you.

That is what hell will be like. And the body of the wicked will not be able to be laid down in the ground, you will have to wear it whether it is alive, or whether it is dead. The spirit needs a covering, whehter that covering is alive or wheteher it is dead, no matter, the spirit cant go anywhere else, so in its body it must stay.

Is there hope for the people in hell? Well yes there is..because I believe God is planning on the destruction of hell, and it is entirely up to him, what he does with the spirits that have been in hell before he destroys it.

Heneni

 

[Scuba Pete]

Neither of these words means that the new body cannot have a physical substance. Would you agree?

I feel it means JUST what it says. We won't be flesh and blood. Will we be "physical"? Since God is Spirit, I believe we will also be spirit. You see, I have already been resurrected when I was baptized. Yet, nothing has happened to my physical body: only to my spirit. I was dead and in darkness (without God) and now I am alive and my life is full of his WONDERFUL light. Like the light that illuminates my soul, my new life is entirely spiritual.