The Return of Christ

[Trailblazer]

Is there solid evidence that he's a prophet of God?

We can look for evidence but the best evidence is what Baha'u'llah provided. After all, He is the one who made such bold claims, so He should be the one to provide the evidence.

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 104-107

Are his teachings able to accomplish what is claimed... That they will bring peace and unity to the world?

It is too soon to know. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking for those of us who are alive today, and we have to make a decision as to what to believe.
A lot is hanging in the balance for every one of us if His claims are true.

Lots of us here on the forum have heard you and other Baha'is give your reasons why you believe, but it hasn't convinced very many, and maybe it's been only one?

How many people are convinced has nothing to do with whether a religion is true or not.
The Truth is never obvious to everyone. In fact, few people find it.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

There are reasons why few people find it.

Few people find the narrow gate and even fewer people enter through it because it is narrow, so it is difficult to get through...
It is difficult to get through because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow that broad road that is easiest for them to travel.... and that is why the NEW religion is always rejected by most people for a very long time after it has been revealed.

Moreover, the Baha'i Faith can be true yet not perfect, and that is what I have settled on, since the only thing that really matters is whether or not Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be. The religion itself is subject to error since it has been in the hands of fallible humans.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your statement above is completely wrong; don't know where you got this idea from...
I showed to you the other day that Jesus was clearly the Son if Man and explicitly said so in Mark's gospel... Also the “Son of Man” in the Gospels was inserted for Jesus because of the “one like a son of man” (a human being) in Daniel 7:13–14, who comes on the clouds of heaven to God himself and receives universal, everlasting authority over the earth.

1 Thess. 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God...."
2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away."
Matthew 10:23 "When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes”
Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done."
Matthew 24:27 "For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. "
Matthew 24:42 "Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming."
Matthew 26:64 "Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Even in John's gospel (John 14:3) “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.”
And many more.....
100 Bible Verses about The Second Coming Of Jesus

There will be no Second Coming of Jesus unless (a) Jesus lied, or (b) the Bible is in error.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

If the Bible is in error, what reason do we have to believe any of the verses in the Bible.

 

[Balthazzar]

When Christ returns will he bring all the dead with him? In my opinion, I think he will.

In the twinkling of an eye is it is written. The dead meaning sleeping according to the scriptures.

 

[Jimmy]

In the twinkling of an eye is it is written. The dead meaning sleeping according to the scriptures.

Just out of curiosity, you call yourself a Christian evolutionist. What does evolution have to do with raising the dead?

 

[Balthazzar]

There will be no Second Coming of Jesus unless (a) Jesus lied, or (b) the Bible is in error.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

If the Bible is in error, what reason do we have to believe any of the verses in the Bible.

Juan to c something true? Christos, spirit of truth, the comforter, and that which guides into all truth. If I'm not mistaken, this also was assured to be given and also spread out upon all people.

 

[Balthazzar]

Just out of curiosity, you call yourself a Christian evolutionist. What does evolution have to do with raising the dead?

Sometimes we wake up.

 

[CG Didymus]

Your statement above is completely wrong; don't know where you got this idea from...
I showed to you the other day that Jesus was clearly the Son if Man and explicitly said so in Mark's gospel... Also the “Son of Man” in the Gospels was inserted for Jesus because of the “one like a son of man” (a human being) in Daniel 7:13–14, who comes on the clouds of heaven to God himself and receives universal, everlasting authority over the earth.

1 Thess. 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God...."
2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away."
Matthew 10:23 "When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes”
Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done."
Matthew 24:27 "For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. "
Matthew 24:42 "Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming."
Matthew 26:64 "Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Even in John's gospel (John 14:3) “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.”
And many more.....
100 Bible Verses about The Second Coming Of Jesus

Of course, the Baha'is have different interpretations for all these verses. Which makes it strange that one Baha'i would take those verses in John that say his work on Earth is finished so literally as to mean he's never coming back. Especially since not long after that he did see them again after he was resurrected.

But for Baha'is, they don't believe he physically resurrected.

 

[Jimmy]

Sometimes we wake up.

I never could understand how someone could take evolution seriously while believing that someone could raise the dead.

 

[Trailblazer]

the “one like a son of man” (a human being) in Daniel 7:13–14, who comes on the clouds of heaven to God himself and receives universal, everlasting authority over the earth.

Christians believe that the following verses are about Jesus, but if Jesus was the Son of man, as Jesus claimed to be, the following verses cannot be about the Jesus.

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Baha'is believe that these verses are about Baha'u'llah who was one like Jesus.

1 Thess. 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God...."
2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away."

Jesus was not the Lord. God is the Lord. The day of the Lord is when Christ returns, but that is not going to be Jesus since Jesus never promised to return and Jesus said He was no more in this world.

Matthew 10:23 "When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes”
Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done."
Matthew 24:27 "For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:42 "Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming."

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man...

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Matthew 24:42 "Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming."
Matthew 26:64 "Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

See above.

Even in John's gospel (John 14:3) “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.”
And many more.....
100 Bible Verses about The Second Coming Of Jesus

That is not Jesus saying that He is coming back to earth.
Jesus was going to heaven to prepare a place for His disciples.
How could Jesus come back to earth and take His disciples to heaven now? His disciples are no longer on earth.

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

When Jesus said “I will come again” He was not referring to coming back to earth again. Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world: John 14:19, John 16:10, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30

John 14:2-3 is Jesus speaking to His disciples.. When Jesus said “I will come again” He was not talking about His physical body returning to earth, He was referring to His Spirit coming again in the future, which I believe it did, in Baha'u'llah, who was the return of the Christ spirit with a new name (Isaiah 62:2, Revelation 2:17, Revelation 3:12)

Jesus said to the disciples “I will come again, and receive you unto myself” Jesus knew He was going to heaven, and He was telling His disciples that He would prepare a place for them in heaven so they could be with Him in heaven -- that where I am, there ye may be also.

If Jesus returned to earth now, the disciples could not 'receive Jesus' since the disciples are no longer living on earth.

John 14:3 is one of the most misunderstood verses in the New Testament so it is no wonder the Bible commentaries do not agree on what it means.

 

[Balthazzar]

I never could understand how someone could take evolution seriously while believing that someone could raise the dead.

Tadpoles have a way of developing into frogs, eh? Seeds have a way of developing into whatever they represent. I came from my origin to become what I am. The same applies to everything else also. When truth becomes a perquisite for development in a person's mind, that is when a once sleeping person wakes up to a whole new world of wonder.

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course, the Baha'is have different interpretations for all these verses.

There is only one 'plain meaning' of the following verses and no Christian has ever come up with another meaning. They just blow me off.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Which makes it strange that one Baha'i would take those verses in John that say his work on Earth is finished so literally as to mean he's never coming back. Especially since not long after that he did see them again after he was resurrected.

But for Baha'is, they don't believe he physically resurrected.

Whether or not Jesus was resurrected or not is a completely different subject than whether Jesus is coming back to earth.
Jesus came to earth to glorify God and bear witness to the truth about God.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jesus has no more work to do on earth. he did everything that God asked Him to do. Jesus never said that He was coming back to earth to build a kingdom on earth, He said that His kingdom was not of this world.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

The belief that Jesus will return and build a kingdom on earth is only Christian dogma. It is not supported by the Bible.
It's sad that Christians cannot even read and understand their own Bible, so a Baha'i has to point these things out to them.

 

[Jimmy]

Tadpoles have a way of developing into frogs, eh? Seeds have a way of developing into whatever they represent. I came from my origin to become what I am. The same applies to everything else also. When truth becomes a perquisite for development in a person's mind, that is when a once sleeping person wakes up to a whole new world of wonder.

You believe the earth has been in existence for 5 billion yrs?

 

[The Hammer]

When you hear them say this what do you think it really means?

Same as any dozens of other death and resurrection myths that have been told through time immemorial.

 

[Trailblazer]

Juan to c something true? Christos, spirit of truth, the comforter, and that which guides into all truth. If I'm not mistaken, this also was assured to be given and also spread out upon all people.

That is exactly what I believe was promised by Jesus and I believe that promise was fulfilled by Baha'u'llah, who was the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth..

 

[Jimmy]

Same as any dozens of other death and resurrection myths that have been told through time immemorial.

Indeed

 

[Balthazzar]

You believe the earth has been in existence for 5 billion yrs?

I have no idea how long, really. I would presume longer, but that's me.

 

[Balthazzar]

That is exactly what I believe was promised by Jesus and I believe that promise was fulfilled by Baha'u'llah, who was the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth..

I'd rather acknowledge truth being what it is, having an ability to guide us into greater truth's and understanding. Jesus was my teacher of these "mysteries" and it appears that Bahaullah was yours. We have many teachers, so it's understandable that we honor those who have been so influential in our lives.

 

[Trailblazer]

In the twinkling of an eye is it is written. The dead meaning sleeping according to the scriptures.

1 Corinthians:52
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Dead might mean sleeping to you but the scriptures don't say that.
To me, dead means spiritually dead, dead in Christ. Those who have become spiritually dead in will become spiritually alive in Christ.
When we all die we will be changed from physical bodies to spiritual bodies which are imperishable.

The Resurrection Body​

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

 

[The Hammer]

Indeed

It really shows the power of myth and storytelling

 

[Trailblazer]

I'd rather acknowledge truth being what it is, having an ability to guide us into greater truth's and understanding. Jesus was my teacher of these "mysteries" and it appears that Bahaullah was yours. We have many teachers, so it's understandable that we honor those who have been so influential in our lives.

Both Jesus and Baha'u'llah are my teachers. Much of what Baha'u'llah wrote is the same as Jesus, and I can give you many examples. The wording is different but the message is the same.

Some of what Baha'u'llah wrote is new but it does not contradict anything Jesus said, it was only the fulfillment of a promise.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.