The Return of Christ

[Balthazzar]

1 Corinthians:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Dead might mean sleeping to you but the scriptures don't say that.
To me, dead means spiritually dead, dead in Christ. The dead in Christ will become alive in Christ, and will be changed from physical bodies to spiritual bodies which are imperishable.

The Resurrection Body​

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Incorruptible is the way I read it and when we have the Christos indwelling in our minds and our beating hearts so much that we live through this spirit, we walk in a manner that is not corrupt, nor in error but in truth. Seeds come to mind in your addition of the writ, which is what I'm speaking about specifically. My kind, your kind, their kind, and other kinds all of the same spirit. I think this is called a type of unity and applies to many mansions.

 

[Balthazzar]

Both Jesus and Baha'u'llah are my teachers. Much of what Baha'u'llah wrote is the same as Jesus, and I can give you many examples. The wording is different but the message is the same.

Some of what Baha'u'llah wrote is new but it does not contradict anything Jesus said, it was only the fulfillment of a promise.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

I'm in enough understanding to understand the Bahai prophet. I have many friends of your faith.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

There will be no Second Coming of Jesus unless (a) Jesus lied, or (b) the Bible is in error.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

If the Bible is in error, what reason do we have to believe any of the verses in the Bible.

As a former Christian and evangelist, I no longer believe in the Bible, particularly its multiple depictions of the afterlife. My 45 years worth of experience seeing, hearing, and sensing earthbound human spirits, as well as my one-on-one interactions and direct communication with them, have undoubtedly taught me otherwise. In addition to being a spirit medium, I'm also a seasoned paranormal investigator with 17 years of experience documenting not only some of my own interactions and communication with these spirits but also those of other paranormal investigators that I've worked with over the past 17 years. So I believe it is fair to say that my 45 years of experience as a spirit medium, combined with my 17 years of experience as a seasoned paranormal investigator, have thoroughly convinced me that the Bible's multiple depictions of the afterlife are blatantly inaccurate. There is no doubt in my mind.

FYI, I outlined multiple scriptures depicting the afterlife in the following posts.

Post 1: Where are the Dead?

Post 2: Where are the Dead?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Was this the case for Jews? First, when awaiting Moses (a) they almost all accepted though starting doubting after they were saved. Yemen was Jewish, accepted Mohammad (s). Later on Iraqi Jews and other places accepted. Most of Jews accepted Islam.

Did you know Madina Al-Munuwara was primarily Jews? They are the ones who converted then invited Mohammad (s) over or Mecca would have been destroyed if they did not.

Also, it can be said Judaism in the area many accepted Isa (a) just didn't accept trinity like Christians.

Christians many did, many did not.

Messengers can be rejected and often are. So your Prophet not having many followers does not disprove him.

But it's not always the pattern. To make this a constant pattern, means, God should just avoid sending Messengers. It often is the case, but not always.

Regarding the Mahdi (a) - it's open ended. It can be good results, bad results, very bad results, or very good results where very few reject him. We don't know. The Quran warns so warnings are avoided. They are not inevitable.

Of course, a large amount of Bani-Israel per Quran became sorcery followers (I believe freemasons and sister and associate groups are these) attributing a book (I believe to be "the key of Solomon") to Sulaiman (a) that Satan created.

It can be said majority of Jews believed in Islam while majority of Bani-Israel became freemasons or whatever they called themselves back then.

There is always a minority of enlightened souls who look into the new Messenger with an open mind and accept Him. But the majority follow the interpretation of the clergy who say “we know” despite it clearly saying “ none knows it’s interpretation except God” (3:7)

Followers of religions often fall into the trap of placing too much belief in their own interpretations as being the only correct view when the Book says only God really knows. But there are clues such as “Listen for the Day when the Caller will call from a nearby place.”(50:41) and “And thy Lord shall come with angels, rank on rank” (89:22). In light of both the Bab and Baha’u’llah appearing in a ‘nearby place’ there is I believe a strong case that these passages and many others refer explicitly to Them.

 

[CG Didymus]

As a former Christian and evangelist, I no longer believe in the Bible, particularly its multiple depictions of the afterlife. My 45 years worth of experience seeing, hearing, and sensing earthbound human spirits, as well as my one-on-one interactions and direct communication with them, have undoubtedly taught me otherwise. In addition to being a spirit medium, I'm also a seasoned paranormal investigator with 17 years of experience documenting not only some of my own interactions and communication with these spirits but also those of other paranormal investigators that I've worked with over the past 17 years. So I believe it is fair to say that my 45 years of experience as a spirit medium, combined with my 17 years of experience as a seasoned paranormal investigator, have thoroughly convinced me that the Bible's multiple depictions of the afterlife are blatantly inaccurate. There is no doubt in my mind.

FYI, I outlined multiple scriptures depicting the afterlife in the following posts.

Post 1: Where are the Dead?

Post 2: Where are the Dead?

How about Satan and demons? Christians believe in them, while Baha'is say they aren't real.

 

[CG Didymus]

There is always a minority of enlightened souls who look into the new Messenger with an open mind and accept Him. But the majority follow the interpretation of the clergy who say “we know” despite it clearly saying “ none knows it’s interpretation except God” (3:7)

Followers of religions often fall into the trap of placing too much belief in their own interpretations as being the only correct view when the Book says only God really knows. But there are clues such as “Listen for the Day when the Caller will call from a nearby place.”(50:41) and “And thy Lord shall come with angels, rank on rank” (89:22). In light of both the Bab and Baha’u’llah appearing in a ‘nearby place’ there is I believe a strong case that these passages and many others refer explicitly to Them.

It doesn't help when Baha'is take parts of verses to come up with their interpretations. Like with Daniel, some Baha'is imply that the whole Bible has been "sealed" up and no one knows the true meaning except their prophet.

​

Quran 3:7 He is the One Who has revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ the Book, of which some verses are precise—they are the foundation of the Book—while others are elusive.1 Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations—but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah. As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason.​

 

[Balthazzar]

Of course, the Baha'is have different interpretations for all these verses. Which makes it strange that one Baha'i would take those verses in John that say his work on Earth is finished so literally as to mean he's never coming back. Especially since not long after that he did see them again after he was resurrected.

But for Baha'is, they don't believe he physically resurrected.

I've considered the implications and have come to reason it to the point that I think he was placed in a catacomb, counted among the dead, and a stone placed in front of the entrance and also that he may have survived the crucifixion. He left that tomb after 3 days apparently, so he certainly rose from that counted among the dead reality, appearing again to his students. I've read that an angel of his was sitting atop the moved stone when others came looking for him, and the soldiers guarding the stone had died from fright. In any case, he suggested that he would leave them in truth to carry on with that spirit for guidance. While I'm unable to speak for Jesus or anyone else who follows his teachings, I can speak for myself and how I understand his teachings and the documentation of history. Is his work finished on earth? I suppose that answer depends on how you apply that meaning. As for me, I suggest it is never done, yet at some point we are able to rest from our work.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

How about Satan and demons? Christians believe in them, while Baha'is say they aren't real.

Actually, I no longer believe in Satan or demons, either.

Ironically, a Baha'i member inspired me to reexamine my former Christian beliefs about Satan and demons, which led me to reject these beliefs. Even more ironic was the fact that this initially occurred in a thread where the OP, a Christian, claimed to have evidence for the existence of demons.

 

[blü 2]

This question is for non-believers of the Christian faith. All Christians believe that Christ will return. When you hear them say this what do you think it really means?

It means that Jesus (or whoever is the Son of Man) had better have a pretty good note from his mom to explain why he's running two thousand years late ─

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

Matthew 10:23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of man comes.

Matthew 16:28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”

Luke 9:27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”​

 

[Jimmy]

It means that Jesus (or whoever is the Son of Man) had better have a pretty good note from his mom to explain why he's running two thousand years late ─

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”​

​

Matthew 10:23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of man comes.​

​

Matthew 16:28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”​

​

Luke 9:27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”​

Well if the world began around 1980 i’m sure many won’t taste death before Christ dies.

 

[Trailblazer]

It means that Jesus (or whoever is the Son of Man) had better have a pretty good note from his mom to explain why he's running two thousand years late ─

Maybe he got caught up in the clouds.

 

[blü 2]

Well if the world began around 1980 i’m sure many won’t taste death before Christ dies.

A good point, but not without its difficulties.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What it means to Christians is that Jesus in will come down in the physical clouds with the same body He had when He ascended into the clouds, but Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
..........................................................................................................................................................................................

Jesus was resurrected back to his original pre-human heavenly spirit body
Before Jesus ascended he used different 'materialized bodies' to appear to his followers
Thus, in this sense the world would Not literally see Jesus but see (understand) what will be going on
Jesus governs from Heaven over Earth - Rev. 3:12,21
The ones called to Heaven (Daniel 7:18; Luke 22:28-30) will govern with Christ in Heaven over Earth - see Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10
God's kingdom government is the government we are asked to pray to come " Thy kingdom come...... " (Daniel 2:44)
Come so that God's will, His purpose, be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven
In Heaven there is No crime, No violence, No war, No pollution, No sickness and No death in Heaven
So, we are asking for those same healthy and heavenly conditions to come and exist on Earth, and they will
Will come as described in the beautiful paradisical word picture as painted in the 35th chapter of Isaiah for us

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It means that Jesus (or whoever is the Son of Man) had better have a pretty good note from his mom to explain why he's running two thousand years late ─

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”​

Matthew 10:23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of man comes.​

Matthew 16:28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”​

Luke 9:27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”​

Please note: the Transfiguration VISION (Matthew 17:9) was Not late because if was a foregleam of what would come later on
They got a foretaste in that VISION ( Not a real happening ) of what was to come
Before ascending to Heaven remember what Jesus said at Acts 1:6-8 first a lot of work would be needed to be done
Remember: Jesus answers at Luke 19:11-15 that Jesus, as the nobleman, would first go away on a long journey before returning
Also, Revelation was written after the 4 gospel accounts
In Revelation we are all invited to ask God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Come and bring healing to earth's nations - Rev. 22:2
Jesus' coming Glory Time is still ahead of us - Matthew 25:31-34,37

 

[blü 2]

Please note: the Transfiguration VISION (Matthew 17:9) was Not late because if was a foregleam of what would come later on
They got a foretaste in that VISION ( Not a real happening ) of what was to come
Before ascending to Heaven remember what Jesus said at Acts 1:6-8 first a lot of work would be needed to be done
Remember: Jesus answers at Luke 19:11-15 that Jesus, as the nobleman, would first go away on a long journey before returning
Also, Revelation was written after the 4 gospel accounts
In Revelation we are all invited to ask God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Come and bring healing to earth's nations - Rev. 22:2
Jesus' coming Glory Time is still ahead of us - Matthew 25:31-34,37

I gave you the quotes, all attributed to Jesus. They all promised the return of the Son of Man and the establishment of the Kingdom within the lifetime of some of his audience.

Either you know some two thousand year old Levantines who happened to have been there, or all those promises failed.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I gave you the quotes, all attributed to Jesus. They all promised the return of the Son of Man and the establishment of the Kingdom within the lifetime of some of his audience.
Either you know some two thousand year old Levantines who happened to have been there, or all those promises failed.

Yes, attributed to Jesus and Jesus said at Matthew 17:9 to tell the VISION to no one at that time
Please notice the word VISION at Matthew 17:9 . A VISION is Not a real happening

 

[blü 2]

Yes, attributed to Jesus and Jesus said at Matthew 17:9 to tell the VISION to no one at that time
Please notice the word VISION at Matthew 17:9 . A VISION is Not a real happening

I don't see how that's relevant. The promise, made at least four times across three gospels, is that the Kingdom will be established on earth in the lifetime of some of Jesus' hearers.

And it wasn't and it still isn't.

 

[Ajax]

There will be no Second Coming of Jesus unless (a) Jesus lied, or (b) the Bible is in error.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

I don't believe in the Bible, neither in Satan/demons, but your statement "The irony is that Jesus never promised to return to earth, not even once in the New Testament." is completely false. Even John contradicts himself.

Jesus was not the Lord. God is the Lord.

Again, Paul opens his letters in 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, Philemon, 1 Thessalonians, and Colossians by referring to God as our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Also “God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ” (Acts 2:36).

"Jesus is Lord" (Greek: Κύριος Ἰησοῦς, Kýrios Iēsoûs) is the shortest credal affirmation found in the New Testament, one of several slightly more elaborate variations. It serves as a statement of faith for the majority of Christians.... It is the motto of the World Council of Churches.

Jesus is Lord - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If the Bible is in error, what reason do we have to believe any of the verses in the Bible.

This is my point exactly...

 

[ajay0]

This question is for non-believers of the Christian faith. All Christians believe that Christ will return. When you hear them say this what do you think it really means?

There are two perspectives of mine in this regard.

Christ-consciousness or Buddha nature is there in all sentient beings. Return of Christ implies that many enlightened sentient beings will emerge to provide light and dispel the darkness.

Secondly, perhaps Christ will reincarnate out of compassion to play the role of a enlightened master again.

 

[Jimmy]

Just heard on moody radio. A woman just said life only flows from Jesus. I agree with that.