Response: Agreed.
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The Revealed Revelations of God
- Thread starter tumbleweed41
- Start date
Response: Agreed.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Response: Likewise.
Luminous
non-existential luminary
however, you've provided no proof that i've provided no proof. how did i not provide proof? thus ur whole point is meaningless to our quest for truth, and my claim of how you hold the qur'an has not been disproven either.
Response: Still trolling.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Indeed - learning how to engage in productive self-reflection of my faults has helped me tremendously. I think we should spend some time talking more about your denial. Learning how to objectively look at your faults might be the first step on the way to becoming a more honest and fully-realized person. You're still young - don't give up hope yet.
Luminous
non-existential luminary
to deny my Illumination experience as the ONLY true Revealed Revelation of God
Response:Where is your proof that the qur'an has discrepancies?
Response: Likewise.
biomystic
Member
Originally Posted by biomystic
The same why you tell any spiritual teaching is from God. "By their fruits, ye shall know them."
Would this also apply to Buddha's sutras? The Book of Mormon? The Book of Certitude
Well, right off the bat, Buddha didn't find God because you can't find God when you've shut down your brain's sense of self center, Quote:
SAYS YOU
Well, who else? I don't have a ghost writer writing my posts. Also, I wouldn't post my opinions about Buddhism without being able to back them up citing brain studies done on Buddhist monks while meditating.
God and Self being intimately connected. Joe Smith wasn't Jewish and didn't get the spiritual truth handed down through the Jewish line of prophets although he did get some of the new information, e.g. the linking of the New World Native American spirituality with the Old World's Holy Land traditions.
So? KINDA ispired by God
Kinda, but Joe, like Paul, like Muhammad, wanted more than anything to start a religious movement organized around his vision and as soon as spiritual knowledge becomes doctrine for an organized religion it loses its purity and becomes a tool for capturing people's minds to enlist them in the organized religious men's ambitions for territorial conquest and control.
Ba'ha'i too suffers from being dependent on Abrahamic mythology but the loving ideology and willingness to sacrifice for God as peace is commendable. Who but Muslims who have a beef with anyone not Muslim could have a real beef with Ba'hais? Goodness is independent of religious doctrines and can be found universally in most human societies not completely oppressed by war conditions.
So you dont know them by their fruit. thanks for clearing that up.
Your answer doesn't make sense. I do know Ba'hais by the fruit of their actions which is why I find them proponents of goodness.
Originally Posted by biomystic
The Gospels, especially the Sermon on the Mount, has inspired more acts of compassion in human beings than any other doctrine on earth.
wrong, acts of compasion by atheists inspired the Sermon on the Mount
Another nonsensical answer. Please post where and how the author of the Sermon on the Mount was inspired by atheists.
21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca , shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
I fail to see how thought crimes inspire compassion. You would have to qualify your claim with a little evidence.
You ever go through a divorce as a kid? Personally, I don't know of any kid who ever really wants their parents to divorce and not work things out.
i do, there are exeptions to everything. sometimes things can't be 'worked out'
I don't know of any kid who would agree with you. I do know there are children of child-killers who would, but I don't personally know of any of this rather tiny statistical minority. Certainly there are exceptions to most everything but basing your opinion on extreme examples instead of the mainstream kid's divorce reality is not the wisest of ways to reach an opinion.
It's the kids who suffer from divorce and I think Jesus, always looking out for out for children, was in his way trying to protect them from the human errors their parents were prone to that could destroy the family group.
so... "your thoughts are dangerous!! dont think them! i forgive them though." so christians show by their fruits that they are hypocrites?
If you keep throwing out non sequitur statements like above who can figure out what your beef is?
Originally Posted by biomystic
I deliberately separate Paul's doctrine from Jesus' teachings as seen in the Gospels because Paul really wasn't Christian. He didn't comprehend forgiveness of sins when it came to Christians ignoring his gospel. Those people he was quite willing to condemn to hell while at the same time he was telling Christians to obey Roman rulers put there by God for their own good. This little item of instruction from Paul is the fatal flaw that made Christians tools of whatever megalomaniac ruler led the nation Christians were citizens of.
yes, if only christians were more blashpemeous maybe they would follow their pope. or better yet be anarchists.
Again, these non sequitur comments of yours aren't helping your argument which seems to jump all over the place instead of addressing my posted opinion.
I agree that Paul had little to do with the original Jerusalem cult.
Originally Posted by biomystic
But one of the most important revelations found in the NT Gospels is the Son of Man one that Jesus Christ himself exemplified knowing that the people of his time, believing like Job that man was a lowly worm, could not make the mental leap necessary to understand how humanity could ever evolve into God Itself. Now we can understand because just within the past 200 years human beings have learned to fly through the air and space and land on the moon and bring the power of the sun down to earth, i.e. god-like powers that will only increase as we evolve through time towards the eventual goal of knowing how Creation works so well, we can produce it ourselves----which we did..and sent back prophesy bearers down the time line to remind us.
So...
God is us, in the future, sending back 'prophets'.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also, and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."
so no one believes in him?
"No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven."
what else came down from heaven? thats' right, evil.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
so i see his followers are greedy for everlasting life. how evil of them, to be good because they have to in order to acheive their dessire.
You do seem to have a serious problem responding logically to my posts with your continual jumping to false conclusions. Perhaps if you read the words of my posts and quotes from Jesus Christ more carefully you would not be so prone to these statements of yours seemingly addressing something else besides what I post.
Gnosticism is anti Agnostic and thus anti-truth.
Another very strange and illogical deduction. Agnosticism is supposed to be open to the truth in whatever form truth takes yet you're saying it can't take the Gnostic form.
~ In truth, we are agnostic: doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
Certainty that the sun will rise and set and gravity pulls us to earth does make it easier to get out of bed in the morning. Try it, you might like it..being certain and free of doubt that you might fall up to the sky..unless, of course, you're already in outer space.
The same why you tell any spiritual teaching is from God. "By their fruits, ye shall know them."
Would this also apply to Buddha's sutras? The Book of Mormon? The Book of Certitude
Well, right off the bat, Buddha didn't find God because you can't find God when you've shut down your brain's sense of self center, Quote:
SAYS YOU
Well, who else? I don't have a ghost writer writing my posts. Also, I wouldn't post my opinions about Buddhism without being able to back them up citing brain studies done on Buddhist monks while meditating.
God and Self being intimately connected. Joe Smith wasn't Jewish and didn't get the spiritual truth handed down through the Jewish line of prophets although he did get some of the new information, e.g. the linking of the New World Native American spirituality with the Old World's Holy Land traditions.
So? KINDA ispired by God
Kinda, but Joe, like Paul, like Muhammad, wanted more than anything to start a religious movement organized around his vision and as soon as spiritual knowledge becomes doctrine for an organized religion it loses its purity and becomes a tool for capturing people's minds to enlist them in the organized religious men's ambitions for territorial conquest and control.
Ba'ha'i too suffers from being dependent on Abrahamic mythology but the loving ideology and willingness to sacrifice for God as peace is commendable. Who but Muslims who have a beef with anyone not Muslim could have a real beef with Ba'hais? Goodness is independent of religious doctrines and can be found universally in most human societies not completely oppressed by war conditions.
So you dont know them by their fruit. thanks for clearing that up.
Your answer doesn't make sense. I do know Ba'hais by the fruit of their actions which is why I find them proponents of goodness.
Originally Posted by biomystic
The Gospels, especially the Sermon on the Mount, has inspired more acts of compassion in human beings than any other doctrine on earth.
wrong, acts of compasion by atheists inspired the Sermon on the Mount
Another nonsensical answer. Please post where and how the author of the Sermon on the Mount was inspired by atheists.
21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca , shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
I fail to see how thought crimes inspire compassion. You would have to qualify your claim with a little evidence.
You ever go through a divorce as a kid? Personally, I don't know of any kid who ever really wants their parents to divorce and not work things out.
i do, there are exeptions to everything. sometimes things can't be 'worked out'
I don't know of any kid who would agree with you. I do know there are children of child-killers who would, but I don't personally know of any of this rather tiny statistical minority. Certainly there are exceptions to most everything but basing your opinion on extreme examples instead of the mainstream kid's divorce reality is not the wisest of ways to reach an opinion.
It's the kids who suffer from divorce and I think Jesus, always looking out for out for children, was in his way trying to protect them from the human errors their parents were prone to that could destroy the family group.
so... "your thoughts are dangerous!! dont think them! i forgive them though." so christians show by their fruits that they are hypocrites?
If you keep throwing out non sequitur statements like above who can figure out what your beef is?
Originally Posted by biomystic
I deliberately separate Paul's doctrine from Jesus' teachings as seen in the Gospels because Paul really wasn't Christian. He didn't comprehend forgiveness of sins when it came to Christians ignoring his gospel. Those people he was quite willing to condemn to hell while at the same time he was telling Christians to obey Roman rulers put there by God for their own good. This little item of instruction from Paul is the fatal flaw that made Christians tools of whatever megalomaniac ruler led the nation Christians were citizens of.
yes, if only christians were more blashpemeous maybe they would follow their pope. or better yet be anarchists.
Again, these non sequitur comments of yours aren't helping your argument which seems to jump all over the place instead of addressing my posted opinion.
I agree that Paul had little to do with the original Jerusalem cult.
Originally Posted by biomystic
But one of the most important revelations found in the NT Gospels is the Son of Man one that Jesus Christ himself exemplified knowing that the people of his time, believing like Job that man was a lowly worm, could not make the mental leap necessary to understand how humanity could ever evolve into God Itself. Now we can understand because just within the past 200 years human beings have learned to fly through the air and space and land on the moon and bring the power of the sun down to earth, i.e. god-like powers that will only increase as we evolve through time towards the eventual goal of knowing how Creation works so well, we can produce it ourselves----which we did..and sent back prophesy bearers down the time line to remind us.
So...
God is us, in the future, sending back 'prophets'.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also, and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."
so no one believes in him?
"No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven."
what else came down from heaven? thats' right, evil.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
so i see his followers are greedy for everlasting life. how evil of them, to be good because they have to in order to acheive their dessire.
You do seem to have a serious problem responding logically to my posts with your continual jumping to false conclusions. Perhaps if you read the words of my posts and quotes from Jesus Christ more carefully you would not be so prone to these statements of yours seemingly addressing something else besides what I post.
Gnosticism is anti Agnostic and thus anti-truth.
Another very strange and illogical deduction. Agnosticism is supposed to be open to the truth in whatever form truth takes yet you're saying it can't take the Gnostic form.
~ In truth, we are agnostic: doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
Certainty that the sun will rise and set and gravity pulls us to earth does make it easier to get out of bed in the morning. Try it, you might like it..being certain and free of doubt that you might fall up to the sky..unless, of course, you're already in outer space.
Luminous
non-existential luminary
in the fact that you can't answer the questions. because they have more than one answer. the answers given to the questions contradict eachother in the Qu'ran and you can't prove me wrong.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Still lieing
Response: For one, I never said that I couldn't aswer the questions, nor do you have proof that I can not answer the questions. Secondly, whether I answer the questions or not is not proof that there are discrepancies in the qur'an simply because that is not the definition of a discrepancy. The definition of the word discrepancy is not, "in the fact that you can't answer the questions. because they have more than one answer". Did you get that from the dictionary? No. You won't find a dictionary with such a definition. So your alleged proof isn't proof at all and any reasonsble person can not only see that it isn't proof, but that it is by far one of the most absurd examples of proof ever put forward.
However, your alleged proof does in fact demonstrate one thing, and that is your own denial to the fact that the qur'an is from Allah. For the only logical reason as to why someone would be so desperate to push absurdity as proof would be the simple fact they refuse to acknowlegde the clear proof in front of them. In other words, denial. However, do realize that such a case by no means discredits islam.
It only works in it's favor.
Response: Where's the lie?
Luminous
non-existential luminary
Originally Posted by biomystic
The same why you tell any spiritual teaching is from God. "By their fruits, ye shall know them."
Would this also apply to Buddha's sutras? The Book of Mormon? The Book of Certitude
Well, right off the bat, Buddha didn't find God because you can't find God when you've shut down your brain's sense of self center, Quote:
SAYS YOU
Well, who else? I don't have a ghost writer writing my posts. Also, I wouldn't post my opinions about Buddhism without being able to back them up citing brain studies done on Buddhist monks while meditating.
God and Self being intimately connected. Joe Smith wasn't Jewish and didn't get the spiritual truth handed down through the Jewish line of prophets although he did get some of the new information, e.g. the linking of the New World Native American spirituality with the Old World's Holy Land traditions.
So? KINDA ispired by God
Kinda, but Joe, like Paul, like Muhammad, wanted more than anything to start a religious movement organized around his vision and as soon as spiritual knowledge becomes doctrine for an organized religion it loses its purity and becomes a tool for capturing people's minds to enlist them in the organized religious men's ambitions for territorial conquest and control.
So you dont know them by their fruit. thanks for clearing that up.
Your answer doesn't make sense. I do know Ba'hais by the fruit of their actions which is why I find them proponents of goodness.
Originally Posted by biomystic
The Gospels, especially the Sermon on the Mount, has inspired more acts of compassion in human beings than any other doctrine on earth.
wrong, acts of compasion by atheists inspired the Sermon on the Mount
Another nonsensical answer. Please post where and how the author of the Sermon on the Mount was inspired by atheists.
The same why you tell any spiritual teaching is from God. "By their fruits, ye shall know them."
Would this also apply to Buddha's sutras? The Book of Mormon? The Book of Certitude
Well, right off the bat, Buddha didn't find God because you can't find God when you've shut down your brain's sense of self center, Quote:
SAYS YOU
Well, who else? I don't have a ghost writer writing my posts. Also, I wouldn't post my opinions about Buddhism without being able to back them up citing brain studies done on Buddhist monks while meditating.
God and Self being intimately connected. Joe Smith wasn't Jewish and didn't get the spiritual truth handed down through the Jewish line of prophets although he did get some of the new information, e.g. the linking of the New World Native American spirituality with the Old World's Holy Land traditions.
So? KINDA ispired by God
Kinda, but Joe, like Paul, like Muhammad, wanted more than anything to start a religious movement organized around his vision and as soon as spiritual knowledge becomes doctrine for an organized religion it loses its purity and becomes a tool for capturing people's minds to enlist them in the organized religious men's ambitions for territorial conquest and control.
Ba'ha'i too suffers from being dependent on Abrahamic mythology but the loving ideology and willingness to sacrifice for God as peace is commendable. Who but Muslims who have a beef with anyone not Muslim could have a real beef with Ba'hais? Goodness is independent of religious doctrines and can be found universally in most human societies not completely oppressed by war conditions.
So you dont know them by their fruit. thanks for clearing that up.
Your answer doesn't make sense. I do know Ba'hais by the fruit of their actions which is why I find them proponents of goodness.
Originally Posted by biomystic
The Gospels, especially the Sermon on the Mount, has inspired more acts of compassion in human beings than any other doctrine on earth.
wrong, acts of compasion by atheists inspired the Sermon on the Mount
Another nonsensical answer. Please post where and how the author of the Sermon on the Mount was inspired by atheists.
Last edited:
Luminous
non-existential luminary
21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca , shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
I fail to see how thought crimes inspire compassion. You would have to qualify your claim with a little evidence.
You ever go through a divorce as a kid? Personally, I don't know of any kid who ever really wants their parents to divorce and not work things out.
i do, there are exeptions to everything. sometimes things can't be 'worked out'
I don't know of any kid who would agree with you. I do know there are children of child-killers who would, but I don't personally know of any of this rather tiny statistical minority. Certainly there are exceptions to most everything but basing your opinion on extreme examples instead of the mainstream kid's divorce reality is not the wisest of ways to reach an opinion.
It's the kids who suffer from divorce and I think Jesus, always looking out for out for children, was in his way trying to protect them from the human errors their parents were prone to that could destroy the family group.
so... "your thoughts are dangerous!! dont think them! i forgive them though." so christians show by their fruits that they are hypocrites?
If you keep throwing out non sequitur statements like above who can figure out what your beef is?
Originally Posted by biomystic
I deliberately separate Paul's doctrine from Jesus' teachings as seen in the Gospels because Paul really wasn't Christian. He didn't comprehend forgiveness of sins when it came to Christians ignoring his gospel. Those people he was quite willing to condemn to hell while at the same time he was telling Christians to obey Roman rulers put there by God for their own good. This little item of instruction from Paul is the fatal flaw that made Christians tools of whatever megalomaniac ruler led the nation Christians were citizens of.
yes, if only christians were more blashpemeous maybe they would follow their pope. or better yet be anarchists.
Again, these non sequitur comments of yours aren't helping your argument which seems to jump all over the place instead of addressing my posted opinion.
27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
I fail to see how thought crimes inspire compassion. You would have to qualify your claim with a little evidence.
You ever go through a divorce as a kid? Personally, I don't know of any kid who ever really wants their parents to divorce and not work things out.
i do, there are exeptions to everything. sometimes things can't be 'worked out'
I don't know of any kid who would agree with you. I do know there are children of child-killers who would, but I don't personally know of any of this rather tiny statistical minority. Certainly there are exceptions to most everything but basing your opinion on extreme examples instead of the mainstream kid's divorce reality is not the wisest of ways to reach an opinion.
It's the kids who suffer from divorce and I think Jesus, always looking out for out for children, was in his way trying to protect them from the human errors their parents were prone to that could destroy the family group.
so... "your thoughts are dangerous!! dont think them! i forgive them though." so christians show by their fruits that they are hypocrites?
If you keep throwing out non sequitur statements like above who can figure out what your beef is?
Originally Posted by biomystic
I deliberately separate Paul's doctrine from Jesus' teachings as seen in the Gospels because Paul really wasn't Christian. He didn't comprehend forgiveness of sins when it came to Christians ignoring his gospel. Those people he was quite willing to condemn to hell while at the same time he was telling Christians to obey Roman rulers put there by God for their own good. This little item of instruction from Paul is the fatal flaw that made Christians tools of whatever megalomaniac ruler led the nation Christians were citizens of.
yes, if only christians were more blashpemeous maybe they would follow their pope. or better yet be anarchists.
Again, these non sequitur comments of yours aren't helping your argument which seems to jump all over the place instead of addressing my posted opinion.
Luminous
non-existential luminary
I agree that Paul had little to do with the original Jerusalem cult.
Originally Posted by biomystic
But one of the most important revelations found in the NT Gospels is the Son of Man one that Jesus Christ himself exemplified knowing that the people of his time, believing like Job that man was a lowly worm, could not make the mental leap necessary to understand how humanity could ever evolve into God Itself. Now we can understand because just within the past 200 years human beings have learned to fly through the air and space and land on the moon and bring the power of the sun down to earth, i.e. god-like powers that will only increase as we evolve through time towards the eventual goal of knowing how Creation works so well, we can produce it ourselves----which we did..and sent back prophesy bearers down the time line to remind us.
So...
God is us, in the future, sending back 'prophets'.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also, and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."
"No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven."
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
You do seem to have a serious problem responding logically to my posts with your continual jumping to false conclusions. Perhaps if you read the words of my posts and quotes from Jesus Christ more carefully you would not be so prone to these statements of yours seemingly addressing something else besides what I post.
Another very strange and illogical deduction. Agnosticism is supposed to be open to the truth in whatever form truth takes yet you're saying it can't take the Gnostic form.
"~ In truth, we are agnostic: doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
Certainty that the sun will rise and set and gravity pulls us to earth does make it easier to get out of bed in the morning. Try it, you might like it..being certain and free of doubt that you might fall up to the sky..unless, of course, you're already in outer space.
Originally Posted by biomystic
But one of the most important revelations found in the NT Gospels is the Son of Man one that Jesus Christ himself exemplified knowing that the people of his time, believing like Job that man was a lowly worm, could not make the mental leap necessary to understand how humanity could ever evolve into God Itself. Now we can understand because just within the past 200 years human beings have learned to fly through the air and space and land on the moon and bring the power of the sun down to earth, i.e. god-like powers that will only increase as we evolve through time towards the eventual goal of knowing how Creation works so well, we can produce it ourselves----which we did..and sent back prophesy bearers down the time line to remind us.
So...
God is us, in the future, sending back 'prophets'.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also, and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."
"No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven."
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
You do seem to have a serious problem responding logically to my posts with your continual jumping to false conclusions. Perhaps if you read the words of my posts and quotes from Jesus Christ more carefully you would not be so prone to these statements of yours seemingly addressing something else besides what I post.
Another very strange and illogical deduction. Agnosticism is supposed to be open to the truth in whatever form truth takes yet you're saying it can't take the Gnostic form.
"~ In truth, we are agnostic: doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
Certainty that the sun will rise and set and gravity pulls us to earth does make it easier to get out of bed in the morning. Try it, you might like it..being certain and free of doubt that you might fall up to the sky..unless, of course, you're already in outer space.
Last edited:
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Post #265
You should really pay better attention.
You are losing even more credibility with each of your ridiculous posts.
Response: Likewise.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Actually, no, Mes, Fatihah's alleged credibility has been in the negative range for a very long time. Given that his credibility is less than zero, one has to expect the answers he gives.
All in all, I thought Tumbleweed gave him a good run, but alas, one always gets sucked into the Islamic vortex. 'Tis inevitable.
The mistake, imo, is in trying to reason with all too many Muslims. It's sort of like trying to reason with the insane.