the right religion

[waitasec]

Nice retroactive qualifier. So you have discovered a philisophic principle of argumentation that only applies to one sentence or subject.

Try this one on:
New International Version (©1984)
Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism

Got Commentary?

Is no respecter of persons - The word used here denotes "the act of showing favor to one on account of rank, family, wealth, or partiality arising from any cause." It is explained in James 2:1-4. A judge is a respecter of persons when he favors one of the parties on account of private friendship, or because he is a man of rank, influence, or power, or because he belongs to the same political party, etc. The Jews supposed that they were especially favored by God. and that salvation was not extended to other nations, and that the fact of being a Jew entitled them to this favor. Peter here says that he had learned the error of this doctrine, and that a man is not to be accepted because he is a Jew, nor to be excluded because he is a Gentile. The barrier is broken down; the offer is made to all; God will save all on the same principle; not by external privileges or rank, but according to their character.
Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism

or

(James 2:1) "My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons."
A Respecter of Persons James 2:1-13

The definition of favoritism is this:
Noun:The practice of giving unfair preferential treatment to one person or group at the expense of another.
Wikipedia - Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster

This is not really something the bible addresses in too much detail. It simply says waitasec is wrong and then moves on. I don't know why you were so interested in this but I imagine semantics or the critique of my grammer is all that is left. Since Christianity also promotes ministry to the poorest and most unfortunate among us and since it is the only valid basis on which to declare men equal then you probably should not have pushed so hard for this answer. Since I imagine there is no avoiding the counterclaim that God is wrong and the book that says God does not show favoritism actually promotes favoritism I will just end here.

here's my commentary
i asked for you to explain the difference between favoritism and being saved. and all you gave me was a regurgitated meaningless response of what the bible claims. you didn't show me the DIFFERENCE...sure the bible may claim that it doesn't show favoritism but what does that mean? where in the bible does it show the characteristics that distinguishes favoritism from being saved?????

This is not really something the bible addresses in too much detail. It simply says waitasec is wrong and then moves on. I don't know why you were so interested in this but I imagine semantics or the critique of my grammer is all that is left. Since Christianity also promotes ministry to the poorest and most unfortunate among us and since it is the only valid basis on which to declare men equal then you probably should not have pushed so hard for this answer. Since I imagine there is no avoiding the counterclaim that God is wrong and the book that says God does not show favoritism actually promotes favoritism I will just end here.

of course not. because it is a slippery slope...one of which you are struggling with. i am not asking you if god shows favoritism, i am asking you to show me the difference between favoritism and being saved is. if the bible claims that being saved is not showing favoritism, where in the bible does it show the the elements or factors that separates or distinguishes contrasting situations of favoritism and being saved?


im am interested in this because no one has yet to show me the DIFFERENCE and unlike you, if something doesn't add up i want to know what is missing or being overlooked ... this is not a matter of faith, this is a matter of using ones rationality and logic

here is the definition of difference:
a : the quality or state of being different <the difference between right and wrong>
b : an instance of differing in nature, form, or quality <noted the differences in color and texture>
c archaic : a characteristic that distinguishes one from another or from the average
d : the element or factor that separates or distinguishes contrasting situations

Difference - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

you only gave the definition of favoritism
The practice of giving unfair preferential treatment to one person or group at the expense of another.

why didn't you define what being saved means????
saved by grace? ...who is saved by grace? those who believe through faith... is faith the the characteristic that distinguishes the difference between fair and unfair in the definition you provided? and faith isn't a work????? hmmmm intriguing sense of logic you rely on...intriguing indeed

:beach:

 

[Curious George]

here's my commentary
i asked for you to explain the difference between favoritism and being saved. and all you gave me was a regurgitated meaningless response of what the bible claims. you didn't show me the DIFFERENCE...sure the bible may claim that it doesn't show favoritism but what does that mean? where in the bible does it show the characteristics that distinguishes favoritism from being saved?????


:beach:

I would conjecture that being "saved" is something one chooses whereas favoritism is something in which one finds benefit or misfortune

 

[waitasec]

I would conjecture that being "saved" is something one chooses whereas favoritism is something in which one finds benefit or misfortune

i agree. our friend here seems to think that being saved by faith isn't something one does, as choice is something one does...

 

[1robin]

Was reading this and either I misunderstood or it did not match up with the rest of your post. in the link you provided I read:

I copied the link on the page I was at. That page had a vast amount of information in it. The info you said you found was a description of that very verse. If you could not find that verse there that site has has a search box for it. It will give that verse in every major bible version. I just tried the link and it gave me the exact verse I quoted. I am unclear what your contention is. My post was in response to someone asking me the difference between favoritism and salvation.

 

[1robin]

i agree. our friend here seems to think that being saved by faith isn't something one does, as choice is something one does...

I said choice is not a work as work is defined by the bible. I think you are so lost in grammer you have forgotten the actual issue.

 

[Curious George]

I copied the link on the page I was at. That page had a vast amount of information in it. The info you said you found was a description of that very verse. If you could not find that verse there that site has has a search box for it. It will give that verse in every major bible version. I just tried the link and it gave me the exact verse I quoted. I am unclear what your contention is. My post was in response to someone asking me the difference between favoritism and salvation.

Not so sure that it is a contention.
It just seemed to met that you were suggesting that the bible says God does not show favoritism and that is not necessarily so as indicated by the site which you sourced.

 

[Nakosis]

I would conjecture that being "saved" is something one chooses whereas favoritism is something in which one finds benefit or misfortune

The problem with that is it contradicts the idea that it is impossible for man to do anything to affect salvation.

Your acceptance of Jesus is not something you choose. It's something you recognize the truth of. You don't choose to believe it is true, you come to know it is true because God provides that knowledge.

Kind of like you don't choose to believe the sun is in the sky you see it in the sky. Now you can choose to reject what you see, but you see what you see. Seeing the Sun is a reality not a choice. What you do about it is a choice.

 

[1robin]

here's my commentary
i asked for you to explain the difference between favoritism and being saved. and all you gave me was a regurgitated meaningless response of what the bible claims. you didn't show me the DIFFERENCE...sure the bible may claim that it doesn't show favoritism but what does that mean? where in the bible does it show the characteristics that distinguishes favoritism from being saved?????

So you prefer my opinion instead of Gods in a religious discussion. That explains a lot. Why don't you explain why this matters and I can taylor what I say to address whatever it is you find so meaningful about it?

of course not. because it is a slippery slope...one of which you are struggling with

You mean the book that addresses the most profound issues in human history is reluctant to address this simple meaningless issue.

. i am not asking you if god shows favoritism, i am asking you to show me the difference between favoritism and being saved is. if the bible claims that being saved is not showing favoritism, where in the bible does it show the the elements or factors that separates or distinguishes contrasting situations of favoritism and being saved?

Because everyone has exactly the same standard.There is no partiality. That also means any works based system besides being impossible would be favoritism.

im am interested in this because no one has yet to show me the DIFFERENCE and unlike you, if something doesn't add up i want to know what is missing or being overlooked ... this is not a matter of faith, this is a matter of using ones rationality and logic

The bible also doesn't say why a BMW is better than a chevy or what causes a golf shot to slice. You have one arbitrary standard for the bible and a seperate one for everything else.

here is the definition of difference:
a : the quality or state of being different <the difference between right and wrong>
b : an instance of differing in nature, form, or quality <noted the differences in color and texture>
c archaic : a characteristic that distinguishes one from another or from the average
d : the element or factor that separates or distinguishes contrasting situations

I was not aware that we were discussing the def of difference.


you only gave the definition of favoritism
The practice of giving unfair preferential treatment to one person or group at the expense of another.

why didn't you define what being saved means????
saved by grace? ...who is saved by grace? those who believe through faith... is faith the the characteristic that distinguishes the difference between fair and unfair in the definition you provided? and faith isn't a work????? hmmmm intriguing sense of logic you rely on...intriguing indeed

How many times are you going to attempt to ressurect or reincarnate this dead horse. Faith is either accepted or resisted. I didn't construct faith out of iron. I didn't climb Everest to find faith. Here are most major version of the bible where the author of salvation says it is not of works:
New International Version (©1984)
not by works, so that no one can boast.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.
English Standard Version (©2001)
not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
International Standard Version (©2008)
and not the result of works, to put a stop to all boasting.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Not of works, lest anyone should boast.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
It's not the result of anything you've done, so no one can brag about it.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
American King James Version
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
American Standard Version
not of works, that no man should glory.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Not of works, that no man may glory.
Darby Bible Translation
not on the principle of works, that no one might boast.
English Revised Version
not of works, that no man should glory.
Webster's Bible Translation
Not by works, lest any man should boast.
Weymouth New Testament
so that it may be impossible for any one to boast.
World English Bible
not of works, that no one would boast. Young's Literal Translation
not of works, that no one may boast;
Ephesians 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
You can find about 10 commentaries there as well. When God (the author of faith and salvation) says it is not of works there isn't really anything else necessary.

:beach: I think I might prefer all emoticons. They do not ask the same question that has been answered about a dozen times over and over.

 

[1robin]

The problem with that is it contradicts the idea that it is impossible for man to do anything to affect salvation.

Your acceptance of Jesus is not something you choose. It's something you recognize the truth of. You don't choose to believe it is true, you come to know it is true because God provides that knowledge.

Kind of like you don't choose to believe the sun is in the sky you see it in the sky. Now you can choose to reject what you see, but you see what you see. Seeing the Sun is a reality not a choice. What you do about it is a choice.

This is actually well written.

 

[kjw47]

By who?
No everyone is not automatically forgiven because Jesus died. His work was suffecient but does not apply until a Christian accepts this sacrifice and is born again. When he becomes born again the Holy spirit which is in effect God and Christ comes to live with us. We are adopted as sons of God and reconciled to him, our name is written in the lambs book of life and all our sins past, present and future are forgiven since from God's perspective he knew them all and since he would know if he will have to in our future ultimately reject us then saving us is a futile act and makes no sense. If after that after all this Jesus says he never knew us that would be a lie and not possible. If these verses are stripped from context and seperated from the whole biblical narrative then they are troubleing. If allowed to harmonise with the rest of scripture they are just another commentary on what a true Christian will do verses a superficial one.



Your 99% claim is an unknowable figure and makes no sense. You are suggesting God allowed his religion to be in effect completely high jacked and used as a tool of satan. I do not believe in that God. Let's review a conservative commentary:

I. He shows, by a plain remonstrance, that an outward profession of religion, however remarkable, will not bring us to heaven, unless there be a correspondent conversation, Matthew 7:21-23. All judgment is committed to our Lord Jesus; the keys are put into his hand; he has power to prescribe new terms of life and death, and to judge men according to them: now this is a solemn declaration pursuant to that power.
Matthew - Chapter 7 - Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on StudyLight.org

This commentary is consistent with my understanding with these verses.
I regard repentace as a necessary attitude before salvation can take place. I reject your arrival at a sinless perfection before we can enter heaven. Since the bible makes clear that no one (not you or me) will ever reach perfection your view is irrational. It also makes what Christ did unnecessary as good works are achievable without his sacrifice. No works based salvation is even possible. If you think it is then lay out what a possible one would look like.

Many men make commentarys--it doesnt mean its reality-- Lets see if 99% are false religions--- 99% teach-- heaven or hell as the end--Jesus taught--blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth--1 religion claiming to be christian teaches that truth. 1 corinthians 1:10 can apply to that as well--because this is reality--Jesus started one religion.God never had more than one religion in his written word.
No one can be perfect, but a true follower who lives by every utterance of God most certainly wouldnt do any of the gross sins that are listed that God will not accept.
All throughout Gods written word for the majority of mankind= 99% mislead by satan. so true today as well.

 

[1robin]

Many men make commentarys--it doesnt mean its reality-- Lets see if 99% are false religions--- 99% teach-- heaven or hell as the end--Jesus taught--blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth--1 religion claiming to be christian teaches that truth.

This is false most mainstream Christian doctrines say that Heaven will be on earth and the New Jerusalem will be the capitol. In fact I do not know one that doesn't even though I am sure a few do. This 99% stuff does you no credit.

1 corinthians 1:10 can apply to that as well--because this is reality--Jesus started one religion.God never had more than one religion in his written word.

I never claimed there are more than one. Maybe your 1% is the false one.

No one can be perfect, but a true follower who lives by every utterance of God most certainly wouldnt do any of the gross sins that are listed that God will not accept.

Then why did Paul (a great Christian by any standard and who knew the law better than me and you combined) say he was the worst of sinners. Do you realise that two denominations do not equal two religions no more than two scientist who disagree about a single law practice two fields of study?

All throughout Gods written word for the majority of mankind= 99% mislead by satan. so true today as well.

You do realise than just making up a percentile of which you have no possible of knowing is not a fact? Since 99% is not ever mentioned in the bible it seems you are preaching a false non biblical doctrine. Are you holyness?

 

[waitasec]

So you prefer my opinion instead of Gods in a religious discussion. That explains a lot. Why don't you explain why this matters and I can taylor what I say to address whatever it is you find so meaningful about it?

**sigh**
don't you know that your opinion is gods opinion from my POV

You mean the book that addresses the most profound issues in human history is reluctant to address this simple meaningless issue.

i mean a book that fails to differentiate favoritism from being saved...

Because everyone has exactly the same standard.There is no partiality. That also means any works based system besides being impossible would be favoritism.

not at all. if i earn my salvation it is not based on favoritism..
however your argument is...salvation comes through faith...which is favoritism since it isn't based on anything but what god chooses, supposedly...salvation is favoritism...don't you feel dog gone special? especially since you didn't need to do anything to gain your salvation...

I was not aware that we were discussing the def of difference.

since you failed to show me the difference between the 2 i thought defining the word would be helpful in understanding what i wanted. capiche?

How many times are you going to attempt to ressurect or reincarnate this dead horse. Faith is either accepted or resisted.

then what is it?
is faith the the characteristic that distinguishes the difference between fair and unfair in the definition you provided for favoritism?

I didn't construct faith out of iron. I didn't climb Everest to find faith. Here are most major version of the bible where the author of salvation says it is not of works:

faith is nothing but self justification.

:beach:

 

[Curious George]

The problem with that is it contradicts the idea that it is impossible for man to do anything to affect salvation.

Your acceptance of Jesus is not something you choose. It's something you recognize the truth of. You don't choose to believe it is true, you come to know it is true because God provides that knowledge.

Kind of like you don't choose to believe the sun is in the sky you see it in the sky. Now you can choose to reject what you see, but you see what you see. Seeing the Sun is a reality not a choice. What you do about it is a choice.

Then we should be able to say the opposite. One doesn't choose not to believe in God, they just have not come to know it is true because God has not provided that knowledge.

So, if someone does not believe in God, its okay because that's God's fault?

 

[waitasec]

Then we should be able to say the opposite. One doesn't choose not to believe in God, they just have not come to know it is true because God has not provided that knowledge.

which begs the question..is salvation favoritism?

now, if you are fine with that...cool.

 

[confused453]

The only one and true religion is the one based on facts which are based on true evidence. Where there's no place for multiple interpretations because everything connects with each other, and actually makes sense to any reasonable person.

Any religion that's trying to force people to believe in it, or has people doubting it, is a false religion.
PS. could be a nice signature

 

[Curious George]

Any religion that's trying to force people to believe in it, or has people doubting it, is a false religion.

People question and doubt everything.

 

[waitasec]

People question and doubt everything.

no they don't

 

[Curious George]

no they don't

what do people not question or doubt?

 

[Curious George]

what do people not question or doubt?

perhaps that was unfair of me. However, I asked it of you because it would only require one example of something people didn't question for me to agree that I was wrong. I thought if you had one on the top of your mind that would be the shortest route to complete this facet of the discussion. However, I do realize that even were you to start listing examples, If I were able to illustrate how people do question those examples then the discussion would not end because in the end I would not have proved my assertion. Rather I would have just proved my assertion held true for your examples.

accepting that you might have just been making a joke by questioning and doubting my statement I will nonetheless proceed as if your remark was in all earnestness.

If we breakdown what we think we know we realize that we need the rules of logic to know anything. These rules of logic are continually doubted and questioned by many people. However assuming the rules of logic we are left with faith and observation. Certainly faith is questioned. But, I hold that so to is observation. everything from sensory input to memory is doubted and questioned. One example of a people who question everything are people who would suggest that the real world is simply an illusion and it is only in our dream states that we actually approach any reality.

 

[confused453]

People question and doubt everything.

2+2 is unquestionably equals 4. There's no reason why should anybody question that, except maybe for the pure ability of "false" doubt.