The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[mickiel]

How do you propose that people find out what God is really like, including what his motives are?

Ask someonelse Agnostic, I find it difficult to speak with you. I am sure there is someone here that can answer you.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering is a Christian Creed, created to frigthen people into joining their cause. Created to influence the membership to give their money or be cursed by God. Created to give Christians a pusedo motivation and petty strength.

Oh but Christianity is complettely unaware of how this concept has angered God. The group has dared to claim that they represent God, are his ambassordors on earth.

And I want to tell you what God really thinks about that.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering is a Christian Creed, created to frigthen people into joining their cause. Created to influence the membership to give their money or be cursed by God. Created to give Christians a pusedo motivation and petty strength.

Peace.

The concept of eternal hell suffering does not come from God but from deluded ignorant humans. I agree with you there friend.
If we examine 2 verses from scripture we see that 'to perish' means to be destroyed, die or decay. It certainly does not mean to suffer eternally. Joh.3v16 and 2Pet.3v9. Jesus came to give life eternal to all who accept his sacrifice for us and those who reject him will perish/die. Man is not immortal that he should live on without God.

 

[mickiel]

The concept of eternal hell suffering does not come from God but from deluded ignorant humans. I agree with you there friend.
If we examine 2 verses from scripture we see that 'to perish' means to be destroyed, die or decay. It certainly does not mean to suffer eternally. Joh.3v16 and 2Pet.3v9. Jesus came to give life eternal to all who accept his sacrifice for us and those who reject him will perish/die. Man is not immortal that he should live on without God.

Every human will die, with the rare exception of a few, and that death will include many who accept Jesus sacrifice, death has no exception to that group. Jesus died for those who reject him, as much as he did for those who accept him.

When will believers get over that?

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Just as Atheist must make room for unbelief in God, the Christian must make room for sinners and unbelievers to die and stay dead, or die and be ressurected to pain forever. The advent of all these extremes in life, are really signs of what life without God will bring into effect within the human consciousness.

Left to ourselves, we must formulate things ourselves, and live in the danger that will bring forth. Really, all the weird beliefs, all the worlds troubles, everything we now see, is the result of evil and human will combining in a great show of what life without God will produce, God has nothing to do with this, he's letting the valcano errupt and wound itself,

And he will deal with those results before we kill ourselves.

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

This statement....how does it change that FIRST God gives the person the faith to even accept it? If He doesnt give them any or enough faith to be "wooed", isnt He still responsible for not converting that person?

Opening the door and giving an invitation is often met with a door in the face. They are called atheists.

 

[mickiel]

Opening the door and giving an invitation is often met with a door in the face. They are called atheists.

Atheist are doing just what God created them to do, just as satan is doing the same. Both are very important ingredients of our Salvation.

If God places something in the picture, you'd better believe that something carrys a great importance.

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

Atheist are doing just what God created them to do, just as satan is doing the same. Both are very important ingredients of our Salvation.

If God places something in the picture, you'd better believe that something carrys a great importance.

Peace.

Atheists are not doing what God wants them to do. They are going to hell.

2Pe 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
(KJV)

 

[mickiel]

Atheists are not doing what God wants them to do. They are going to hell.

2Pe 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
(KJV)

Atheist are not going to hell, nobody is going to your sacred desire, no one is going to this place you have in your heart. Nobody is going to this place you desire them to go, and your lack of interpitation cannot send them there. Atheist need Salvation just like you do, its a good thing their Salvation is not in your hands.

Because I know what you and your kind would do to them, and I am glad that the God of mercy and grace is not like you.

So glad!

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering is a Christian Creed, created to frigthen people into joining their cause. Created to influence the membership to give their money or be cursed by God. Created to give Christians a pusedo motivation and petty strength.
Oh but Christianity is complettely unaware of how this concept has angered God. The group has dared to claim that they represent God, are his ambassordors on earth.
And I want to tell you what God really thinks about that.
Peace.

The dark ages weren't called dark for no reason. People did not have access to Scripture and the corrupt clergy class could easily use the scare tactic of a supposedly real hell fire as a tool to control them. -Acts 20:29,30.

But hell suffering is Not a genuine Christian creed. Hell suffering is pagan in origin. The Bible hell is simply the common grave of mankind.

Hell fire is often translated from the word Gehenna and not hades.
Gehenna was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and not kept burning forever. So hell fire or Gehenna is really a fitting symbol for destruction. -Psalm 92:7; Hebrews 2:14 B.

The pagan hellfire can be traced back to its pagan roots in ancient Babylon and not first-century Christianity. The Christian hell [gravedom] comes to an end at Revelation 20:13,14 during Jesus peaceful 1000-year rule over earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Atheists are not doing what God wants them to do. They are going to hell.
2Pe 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
(KJV)

Didn't Jesus do what God wanted him to do?_____

Since Jesus went to hell [Acts 2:27,31], and Jesus did do what God wanted him to do, then dead people go to hell because the Bible hell is the common grave of mankind. Jesus believed the dead sleep the deep sleep of death according to John 11:11-14. Jesus got that idea from Scriptures such as:
[Ecc. 9:5; Psalm 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4; Daniel 12:2,13]

It is those of Matt 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6; 10:26 that are held accountable.
Only God can make that judgment call.
Also, those that are everlasting punished at Matt 25:32,46 are the ones executed by Jesus [Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:15]. 2nd Thess 1:9 equates everlasting punishment with destruction or annihilation, not torture.
So in the end, those held accountable will not be in hell [gravedom] but be everlasting destroyed.- Psalm 92:7; Hebrews 2:14 b.
Even the Bible hell dies out of existence. -Rev 20:13,14.

 

[Beta]

Atheist need Salvation just like you do, its a good thing their Salvation is not in your hands.

Because I know what you and your kind would do to them, and I am glad that the God of mercy and grace is not like you.

So glad!

Peace.

I agree with you, Atheists just like anybody else needs salvation. They just take longer to come to their senses, to realize they need help. God never created Atheists or sinners for that matter. We, man became evil all by our own thinking and doings.

 

[Danmac]

Didn't Jesus do what God wanted him to do?_____

Since Jesus went to hell [Acts 2:27,31], and Jesus did do what God wanted him to do, then dead people go to hell because the Bible hell is the common grave of mankind. Jesus believed the dead sleep the deep sleep of death according to John 11:11-14. Jesus got that idea from Scriptures such as:
[Ecc. 9:5; Psalm 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4; Daniel 12:2,13]

It is those of Matt 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6; 10:26 that are held accountable.
Only God can make that judgment call.
Also, those that are everlasting punished at Matt 25:32,46 are the ones executed by Jesus [Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:15]. 2nd Thess 1:9 equates everlasting punishment with destruction or annihilation, not torture.
So in the end, those held accountable will not be in hell [gravedom] but be everlasting destroyed.- Psalm 92:7; Hebrews 2:14 b.
Even the Bible hell dies out of existence. -Rev 20:13,14.

Jesus gift of eternal life is good to those who choose to accept it. Some people do not want what Jesus has to offer. Is that so hard for you?

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
(KJV)

 

[mahmoud mrt]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

I asked the same question to my self, and was convinced by an answer i reached,

your question is logical, for muslims many ignore it and leave it to God, many on the contrary are convinced that eternal torture is there

if you want you can read the analysis


since i can't post a url till i reach 15 posts, i'll quote here


Existence, non existence, Heaven, hell, torture, and joy

Hi,


That point I want to add, is the concept of existence and non existence, please if you want read the whole post to get the concept then kindly reply.

This is my view, an Islamic opinion combined from the Islamic thinker, “dr mostafa mahmoud”, and the known scholar “Mohamed metwally elsharaawy”, and my reading in the holy Qur’an and the prophet’s (pbuh) traditions, still it’s personal, you can agree or not agree on it whether you’re a Muslim or not.

This concept could explain the question here, Why God is treating unevenly regarding testing and suffering and joy to different persons?

Before anyone was created, he was a non existent object; he was there but just a non existent possibility

This person in the non existence was naturally wishing to be created,

So God blessed him with the bless of creation,

Here comes the question: what this person wants his life to be? Of course he wants it to be ever joy, pleasure, etc,

But here we are forgetting the concept of the hereafter, the concept of ranking,

Let’s say a person who has good in him and evil in him (like all of us), what is the percentage of good, what is the percentage of evil, and how to really undress this person so as to put him in his rank?

I know that many now will reply that ranking includes hell which is ever lasting torture, no, in my opinion with proofs that torture is not ever lasting, it may be for a very long time, but not for eternity, hell is a place for ranking also, we will get to this point afterwards, thanks for being patient.

So to reveal this persons true nature and heart you need to put him in the circumstances suitable for this process,

This applies to Muslims ad non Muslims evenly.

So let’s say a person for instance with 50% good and 50% evil, this particular person for him to reach 100% good he needs to be put in hard circumstances so as to be humble towards God, feel the need for Him, thus get his heart purified and deserve heaven.

Lets say another person with 70% good and 30% evil, and this particular person for him to reach 100% good he needs to tested by another way, wealth, health, to test if he will use this in good, helping the poor, needed, thus deserves heaven. I hope good for Bill Geits by the way.

Lets get to the other side of the equation.

A person with 20% good and 80% evil, for him to reach 50% good he needs to be put in hard circumstances (or good circumstances respectively), he did crimes (as for any kind of crimes, moral, ethical, physical, etc), so sill in this life he will not reach 100%, he need to purified in hell first, to be punished for his crimes justly, then he will go to heaven, (many Muslims, and non Muslims are in this category)

Another person has 0% good and 100% evil, nothing will make him good by any means or believing in God, be thankful to him, so God puts him in the circumstances to reveal his true nature, he will be able to do all kinds of crimes, murder, rape, etc. So he deserves hell, in hell he will be punished for his crimes for a very long time depending on the crimes, then afterwards his torture will be over, he will not suffer, but still he will be in hell with his low rank. Heaven for him will be worse than hell, he doesn’t’ want to be thankful towards God for a single moment, so the mercy of God will put him in his rank.

So when the holy Qur’an always states the balance between the reward for good persons and punishment for evil ones , He mainly speaks to Muslims and non Muslims to help them do the effort so as to reach a good rank and deserve ever joy life in heaven.

Note here that the clear agreed upon concept in Islam is that heaven and hell are physical full body lives, not just by soul like the Christian faith, with respect

Regarding the textual proofs for this analysis I’ll post it here by God willing

Regards,
mahmoud

Regards
mahmoud

 

[AK4]

Opening the door and giving an invitation is often met with a door in the face. They are called atheists.

Actually, according to Jesus, "this door in the face" is done by those who are supposed to be his followers, a.k.a christians. Dont believe me? Then who is He addressing Revelation? The church or those who are athiests. The church!!

Hmmmm something to think about huh?

Oh need a second witness check out (Matt 7:21-24). Need more witnesses? I could quote them if you like.

 

[mickiel]

God never created Atheists or sinners for that matter. We, man became evil all by our own thinking and doings.

I disagree, God most certainly created Atheist and sinners. Atheist are Atheist, because thats what God intended for them to be, as well as sinners. God intended that ALL humans be sinners, and they are! There are no exceptions to this accross the board. All have sinned, translation: All are sinners. Its that simple.

Humanity didNOT become evil by its own thinking. God created evil, placed it into the earth, and then placed humanity on the earth, its all in the Garden of Eden account, many just do not see this. If Evil didnot first exist, then neither would have sin.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

I disagree, God most certainly created Atheist and sinners. Atheist are Atheist, because thats what God intended for them to be, as well as sinners. God intended that ALL humans be sinners, and they are! There are no exceptions to this accross the board. All have sinned, translation: All are sinners. Its that simple.

Humanity didNOT become evil by its own thinking. God created evil, placed it into the earth, and then placed humanity on the earth, its all in the Garden of Eden account, many just do not see this. If Evil didnot first exist, then neither would have sin.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

A & E were not created sinfull. They BECAME sinners when they disobeyed God's commandment Gen.2v16,17.
In Gen.3v6 we read that Eve SAW the forbidden tree she DESIRED it's fruit which could make her wise so she took and ate. That my friend was not forced on her by God but was her own decision.
It does not matter in the least that evil existed first - they had been commanded not to touch it. That is what matters obedience/disobedience. Satan had no power over them UNTIL they obeyed him instead of God. The same principle still applies today. You obey sin and satan is your god 2Cor.4v4.

 

[mickiel]

A & E were not created sinfull. They BECAME sinners when they disobeyed God's commandment Gen.2v16,17.
In Gen.3v6 we read that Eve SAW the forbidden tree she DESIRED it's fruit which could make her wise so she took and ate. That my friend was not forced on her by God but was her own decision.
It does not matter in the least that evil existed first - they had been commanded not to touch it. That is what matters obedience/disobedience. Satan had no power over them UNTIL they obeyed him instead of God. The same principle still applies today. You obey sin and satan is your god 2Cor.4v4.

I disagree totally. Adam and Eve were " Set up by God to be sinful." First God plants a tree in the garden with Evil knowledge in it, he didnot have to expose the young couple to that, he did. Then God allows satan to come into the garden. God could have protected the young couple by not allowing the serpent in , he didnot. Adam and Eve were Spiritually Blind BEFORE they ate from the Tree, because their eyes were " Opened" in Gen.3:7, AFTER they ate, NOT before, this proves that God didNOT train them or prepare them, he allowed the serpent, who was MORE wise than any other creation of God, 3:1, to go after this " Blind couple."

They were ABSOLUTELY no match for the serpent, and it was God who made sure of that.

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I disagree totally. Adam and Eve were " Set up by God to be sinful." First God plants a tree in the garden with Evil knowledge in it, he didnot have to expose the young couple to that, he did. Then God allows satan to come into the garden. God could have protected the young couple by not allowing the serpent in , he didnot. Adam and Eve were Spiritually Blind BEFORE they ate from the Tree, because their eyes were " Opened" in Gen.3:7, AFTER they ate, NOT before, this proves that God didNOT train them or prepare them, he allowed the serpent, who was MORE wise than any other creation of God, 3:1, to go after this " Blind couple."
They were ABSOLUTELY no match for the serpent, and it was God who made sure of that.
Peace.

Only that 'one' single tree was the tree of knowledge of both good and evil.
Gen 2:16 says of every other tree they can eat. So they had a sample of all the other trees on earth to choose. Just stay away from God's one tree. By God saying don't eat was like a No-trespassing sign.

If your neighbor had a no-trespassing sign would you go over and eat off of his tree? _____ The Garden was like a big beautiful house. If you were the Householder and told your Guests they have the run of the house except stay out of one closet, would that be considered unreasonable?

Sure God allowed Satan into the Garden. Satan appointed position was supposed to be that of a 'covering cherub' [Ezekiel 28:14] or overseer to protect Adam and Eve. Instead Satan began to want their worship and set out to get it against God's wishes. By his own desire Satan turned himself into Satan [resister] and Devil [slanderer]. -James 1:14,15.

Since Adam and Eve were created with healthy human perfection of mind and body they understood not to eat the forbidden fruit. Knowledge of good and evil now meant they could choose for themselves what they thought was either good or evil in their own eyes for themselves. By disobeying God Adam was setting up people rule over God rule. Adam made that choice by voluntary free will not force. Has independence from God brought peace on earth? Rather the world scene today shows that mankind can not successfully rule themselves and establish peace on earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A & E were not created sinfull. They BECAME sinners when they disobeyed God's commandment Gen.2v16,17.
In Gen.3v6 we read that Eve SAW the forbidden tree she DESIRED it's fruit which could make her wise so she took and ate. That my friend was not forced on her by God but was her own decision.
It does not matter in the least that evil existed first - they had been commanded not to touch it. That is what matters obedience/disobedience. Satan had no power over them UNTIL they obeyed him instead of God. The same principle still applies today. You obey sin and satan is your god 2Cor.4v4.

I like how you brought out that Eve SAW [the tree was good to eat] and DESIRED. Since the tree itself was not poisonous Eve could have observed SAW animals eating some of its fruit and nothing happening to them.
The point was: Obedience. By falling for the lie of Gen 3v4 they were taking refuge in a lie with Romans 5v12 best describing what happened because of Adam and Eve.

Gen 3v13 mentions 'who' afflicted Eve because after sinning Eve in effect was saying that Satan is the Master of Deception by her saying it was Satan who beguiled her.

Rev 12v3,4 shows to what large extent Satan beguiles or deceives because pre-flood fallen angels would be numbered among those one third.

People like to have warranties knowing that if something goes wrong they are protected and will be taken care of. But warranties require people to keep up their end of the requirements. Keep up their end of the obligations for the requirements to be met. Proverbs 18v10 informs God's name is a strong tower. The righteous run to it and are safe. If Adam and Eve would have kept their obligation to obey God they would have been kept safe and been given protection from Satan.