The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[Beta]

True friend , God does not ask our permission - but he looks on the heart of a man/woman.
Again I agree with much you say but for God to determine the outcome of our calling is to make him into a 'dictator'. If that were the case why should we have to repent and change our ways ? God would just over-ride all our contradictions and make of us what he wants. We know that God is not like that but full of mercy and compassion to help us change - those he has called and is working with.
ALL will be called eventually but in their own order as scripture says.

 

[Danmac]

True friend , God does not ask our permission - but he looks on the heart of a man/woman.
Again I agree with much you say but for God to determine the outcome of our calling is to make him into a 'dictator'. If that were the case why should we have to repent and change our ways ? God would just over-ride all our contradictions and make of us what he wants. We know that God is not like that but full of mercy and compassion to help us change - those he has called and is working with.
ALL will be called eventually but in their own order as scripture says.

Many are called but few are chosen.

Matt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Beta]

Many are called but few are chosen.

Matt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

That is what scripture says !!!

 

[mickiel]

True friend , God does not ask our permission - but he looks on the heart of a man/woman.
Again I agree with much you say but for God to determine the outcome of our calling is to make him into a 'dictator'. If that were the case why should we have to repent and change our ways ? God would just over-ride all our contradictions and make of us what he wants. We know that God is not like that but full of mercy and compassion to help us change - those he has called and is working with.
ALL will be called eventually but in their own order as scripture says.

God has " Dictated all of our desitnies", and we cannot repent unless God grants or gives it, Romans 2:4. God leads people to repent, they do not repent on their own. God does overide all of our contridictions and makes us what HE wants.

Your view of God and mine are just totally different. You need to have a say so in your Salvation, I don't need that. You need for humanity to hold some of the cards of their own destiny, I don't see them holding any of the cards. You need to factor yourself into your salvation, I don't see humanity factoring in any of it.

God IS a dictator, but he is a loving dictator. God rules alone, and does not ask humans what do they think. He has already predestined all of our Salvation, reguardless of how we feel about it, reguardless of what we believe.

And hes going to get his way, and theres absolutely nothing any human can do about it. There is absolutely nothing a human can do to deserve it, and there is nothing a human can do to be disqualified from it.

Jesus saw to that.

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

True friend , God does not ask our permission - but he looks on the heart of a man/woman.
Again I agree with much you say but for God to determine the outcome of our calling is to make him into a 'dictator'. If that were the case why should we have to repent and change our ways ? God would just over-ride all our contradictions and make of us what he wants. We know that God is not like that but full of mercy and compassion to help us change - those he has called and is working with.
ALL will be called eventually but in their own order as scripture says.

Isn't 1st Cor 15:22,23 talking about 'all in Christ' which is different then just all or everyone. 1st John 5:7 does show that Jesus blood cleanses all, but do all accept Jesus? Some had no choice, but some became guilty of the unforgivable lasting sin of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6; 10:26.

That is why Matthew 20:28 says 'many' and not all.
Even Daniel (12:2,13) recognized it would be 'many' and not all.

Those still alive or living at the time of Jesus glory [Matt 25:31,32; 16:27] are not 'all' separated to Jesus right hand of favor, so to speak. Those Jesus judges as righteous go into everlasting life or continue right on living into Jesus peaceful 1000-year rule over earth. The rest have the punishment of everlasting destruction. -2 Thess 1:9, including Satan- Hebrews 2:14 b.

God is not willing any should perish or be destroyed, but according to 2 Peter 3:9b 'all' should repent. The goat-like ones of Matt chapter 25 do Not repent.
They remain on the broad road of Matt 7:13.


Deuteronomy 30:19; 32:5; 2 Tim 3:1-5, 13.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God has " Dictated all of our desitnies", and we cannot repent unless God grants or gives it, Romans 2:4. God leads people to repent, they do not repent on their own.

Doesn't Romans 2:6 continue with God will render to every man according to his own deeds? The 'his' is each person's deeds, not God's own deeds.

Our Heavenly Father is our Benevolent Benefactor.
The word father means life giver not life taker.
Satan, on the other hand, is the opposite- Hebrews 2:14 b.

Deuteronomy 30:19; 32:5; Joshua 24:15

 

[mickiel]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering will continue to be supported by those caught up into deception that supports the doom of humanity. The true suffering God willed for all of humanity, has already occured, and is occuring right now. He has planned no suffering when his Kingdom finally comes to earth. It will be over.

And I praise him for that. So for now, suffer well, it has a devine reason.

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering will continue to be supported by those caught up into deception that supports the doom of humanity. The true suffering God willed for all of humanity, has already occured, and is occuring right now. He has planned no suffering when his Kingdom finally comes to earth. It will be over.
And I praise him for that. So for now, suffer well, it has a devine reason.
Peace.

According to Rev 12:12 isn't it Satan, not God, that brings 'woe' to the earth?
After all isn't Satan the god of this world of badness -2 Cor 4:4?

Doesn't Matthew 24:13,14 stipulate he who endures to the end will be saved?
He who endures faithfully to the end of this world of badness will be saved or delivered into God's kingdom or royal government (Daniel 7:13,14; 2:44) because Jesus is the crowned acting King of God's kingdom.

 

[mickiel]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering will continue to be supported by those caught up into deception that supports the doom of humanity. The true suffering God willed for all of humanity, has already occured, and is occuring right now. He has planned no suffering when his Kingdom finally comes to earth. It will be over.

And I praise him for that. So for now, suffer well, it has a devine reason.

Peace.

One of the Powers of God, is " Impression." Influence stamped on your Consciousness, which, if he wills, can never leave your Consciousness. This is one of the things God is doing with Evil, the Knowledge of it. The experience of it. He is " Stamping forever within our Consciousness", what it is like to be involved with evil, and be without him. And this is an eternal lesson being heaped upon all of humanity.

We will know, and know that we know, what life without God will produce.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[Bird123]

I think you will find that believing IS important to God Heb.11v6
it is the beginning of our faith and growth in the knowledge of God.

We should never under-estimate small beginnings, God has much to say on that !

Deep down we all know God. Believing is only important to religions. Without belief, there can be no religion.Without belief, there is still God. He will impact your life. Life is the education of God's children. God does not want you to believe. God wants you to know!

 

[AK4]

So if only God can give faith why did he choose not to give any to the people Jesus was referring to here?

Mt 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

Did Jesus forget to give faith to Thomas?

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Why did he tell Thomas to "be not faithless? Why didn't he just give him some faith.

According to this verse not all men have faith. Why not?

2Th 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Read what you put and then Think on this and see if you still come up with the same thinking

Am I saying that God Himself deceives people? No, I never came up with any such teaching - I READ IT IN THE BIBLE:

"And there came forth a spirit [a lying spirit], and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a LYING spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And He [the Lord] said, You shall persuade him, and prevail also, go forth, and DO SO. Now therefore, behold, the Lord [Who? 'the LORD'] has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets, and the Lord has spoken evil concerning you" (I Kings 22:22-23).

"Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will entice him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go out, and by a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, You shall entice him, and you shall also prevail: go out, and DO EVEN SO. Now therefore, behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all His prophets, and the Lord has spoken evil against you" (II Chron. 18:21-22).

But I though that "God cannot lie" (Titus 1:2)? He can't, but He does send those who DO LIE.

But I thought that "God tempts no man" (James 1:13)? He doesn't, but He sends those who DO TEMPT. (Matt. 4:1, I Cor. 7:5, I Thes. 3:5, Heb. 4:15).

Surely God does not desire for even one person to be deceived? Surely He DOES:

"and for this cause GOD shall send them strong DELUSION [Gk: 'fraudulence, straying, deceit, delusion, error'] that they should BELIEVE A LIE" (II Thes. 2:11).

Read that again a few times, as most of you either didn't get that verse, or you just flat out don't believe it should be a part of Scripture.

No, we can say that the Holy Ghost opens the door and calls the sinner to repentance. They can reject the wooing.

This statement....how does it change that FIRST God gives the person the faith to even accept it? If He doesnt give them any or enough faith to be "wooed", isnt He still responsible for not converting that person?

 

[mickiel]

God has given impression in scripture that he has not willed anyone to perish, but that ALL come to repentance. Thats the very reason Jesus came to earth, to prepare the way for sinners to be saved.

That is the greatest impression in the bible, and I want to get into that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

God has given impression in scripture that he has not willed anyone to perish, but that ALL come to repentance. Thats the very reason Jesus came to earth, to prepare the way for sinners to be saved.

That is the greatest impression in the bible, and I want to get into that.

Peace.

The very reason Jesus was sent to earth was to save everyone, period! Well what does " Save mean?" It means to preserve all of humanity, no matter what has went on, or will go on. In 1John 4:14, this is confirmed;" And we have seen and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be " The Savior of the World!" Everybody will be preserved. This is not selective bargining for souls, its not a seperation of Salvation. Its a total effort that will result in World Salvation.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[Agnostic75]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Consider the following Scriptures:

Matthew 26:24

"The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born."

Revelation 9:1-6

"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

Revelation 14:8-11

"And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

Those Scriptures indicate that God is vengeful and unmerciful.

Are you aware of any fair, worthy, and just goals that God would not be able to achieve without injuring and killing people and innocent animals with hurricanes?

 

[mickiel]

Those Scriptures indicate that God is vengeful and unmerciful.

Are you aware of any fair, worthy, and just goals that God would not be able to achieve without injuring and killing people and innocent animals with hurricanes?

I think God CAN be both vengeful and unmerciful, I agree. He certainly can be, and has been, and will be again. The bible is clear on that. And it is just as clear that God will put an end to those ways of being in him. In Rev. 21:4, God will stop all the crying, HE has caused, stop all Death, and cease all pain, that is the end of the biblical story, those things have a destiny of being forever discontinued. Just not tody, first they must accomplish what God wants them to accomplish, which is of intrest.

And I don't think God could have accomplished his goals " Without using these deadly things", or he would have done it that way.

Peace.

 

[Agnostic75]

I think God CAN be both vengeful and unmerciful, I agree. He certainly can be, and has been, and will be again. The Bible is clear on that. And it is just as clear that God will put an end to those ways of being in him.

No, as I showed, some Scriptures indicate that the Beast and some people will be tormented forever without parole.

 

[mickiel]

No, as I showed, some Scriptures indicate that the Beast and some people will be tormented forever without parole.

I don't believe that, not at all. There are far too many other scriptures that describe the Characther of God, such as Galations 5:22-23, all these listed ARE the ways and means of God. Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Gentleness and Self Control. ALL these ARE the ways of God, and those ways WILLNOT torment beings forever.

No way man, we just got it wrong, don't you believe that God will do such a terrible thing as torment forever. Its no way man, no possible way, and I will NEVER accept that he would co-exist with such nonsense in eternity.

People just do not understand how God really is.

Peace.

 

[Agnostic75]

No, as I showed, some Scriptures indicate that the Beast and some people will be tormented forever without parole.

I don't believe that, not at all.

But that is what the texts clearly say.

Do you believe that God injures and kills people and animals with hurricanes? If so, why wouldn't he also send some people to hell for eternity without parole?

God withholds evidence that would cause more people to accept him if they were aware of it. No man can morally be held accountable for refusing to accept evidence that he would accept if he was aware of it.

In your opinion, what justifies what God does, his power? The author of Romans chapter 9 says so.

 

[mickiel]

But that is what the texts clearly say. quote

I don't believe the text.

quote
Do you believe that God injures and kills people and animals with hurricanes? If so, why wouldn't he also send some people to hell for eternity without parole? quote

Yes I do believe God kills humans and animals, they are his to do as he pleases, but he has killed no human that he willnot again give a better life to in eternity.


quote
God withholds evidence that would cause more people to accept him if they were aware of it. No man can morally be held accountable for refusing to accept evidence that he would accept if he was aware of it. quote

I agree with that.


quote
In your opinion, what justifies what God does, his power? The author of Romans chapter 9 says so.

Well yes, his Power, also his Wisdom, his Position, his intent, his Understanding, his Love, and most of all his Responsibility to all things.

Peace.

 

[Agnostic75]

No, as I showed, some Scriptures indicate that the Beast and some people will be tormented forever without parole.

I don't believe that, not at all.

But that is what the texts clearly say.

What do you believe justifies what God does, his power? The author of Romans chapter 9 says so.