The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[Danmac]

I agree. I do not believe that the Bible or any sacred text should be read using an exoteric, fundamentalist interpretation.

So why is your interpretation valid?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So what is this place Jesus was speaking about? It doesn't sound much like a garbage dump.
Luke 16: 19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
(KJV)

First of all, at Matthew 13:34 it states that Jesus would Not speak to the crowds without a parable or illustration.
At Luke 16 Jesus is addressing, not his disciples, but the Pharisees so Jesus was giving them a parable or illustration and not a literal happening.

At Luke 16:23 the Greek word 'hades' is used, and Not the word 'Gehenna'.
Hades being the hell of Acts 2:27,31. Gehenna is the word often translated as hellfire. Gehenna was the garbage dump were things were destroyed and not kept burning forever. So Gehenna is a fitting symbol of destruction.
'Destruction' is the everlasting punishment according to 2nd Thess. 1:9.
See also Psalm 92:7; Hebrews 2:14 B.

 

[AK4]

Fearful [Greek: also Coward] and unbelieving etc. is set after the resurrection of Rev. chapter 20. So that verse is talking about behaviors after they are resurrected.
Those timid or cowardly ones do not have the courage to love what God loves and hate what God hates.

Do you have a chapter and verse that says this? No. Do we have chapters and verses that says the opposite of what you say will happen to those after the resurrection? Glad you asked.

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Psalm 22:27: All the ends of the world will REMEMBER and TURN UNTO THE LORD. And all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

Isaiah 11:9: ...for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the see.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

And last but certainly not even close to least, a spiritual match that goes with Php 2:9-11

1Co 12:3 ...no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

etc etc etc.

Now how many more verses of scripture will you keep insisting God is a liar?

We are not living at that future time of Jesus peaceful thousand-year rule over earth.

its not a literal 1000 years. Its a SYMBOL in a book of SYMBOLS.

We are living at the time of Matthew 13:47,48 which is leading up to the time of Matthew 25:31,32 when Jesus will separate the living people on earth, and only those at his right hand of favor will continue to live on or remain alive on earth right into the start of Jesus millennial rule when Jesus ushers in Peace on earth toward men of goodwill.

Again study the words aion/aionis and olam and maybe God will open your eyes to see that the unscriptural doctrine of today is the only day of salvation.

 

[AK4]

So how could someone blame God for going to hell when they choose to go there?

How could God condemn someone to hell when faith is only given by Him and only sustained by Him?

 

[berrychrisc]

How could God condemn someone to hell when faith is only given by Him and only sustained by Him?

This is the quandry one runs into when confronting philosophies like Calvanism, where mankind is considered totally depraved and all the responsibility for salvation is given to God. We are made in the image of God. We freely choose to love, as God does. He has chosen to love each of us. We should not allow ourselves to be troubled by a literal interpretation of one small part of the material that was written about Jesus. I would never condemn any of my children to Hell, no matter what they did. I have a hard time believing that I am more loving than God, so I don't believe that He will, either. He loves His children more than we could ever love our own children.

 

[mickiel]

This is the quandry one runs into when confronting philosophies like Calvanism, where mankind is considered totally depraved and all the responsibility for salvation is given to God. We are made in the image of God. We freely choose to love, as God does. He has chosen to love each of us. We should not allow ourselves to be troubled by a literal interpretation of one small part of the material that was written about Jesus. I would never condemn any of my children to Hell, no matter what they did. I have a hard time believing that I am more loving than God, so I don't believe that He will, either. He loves His children more than we could ever love our own children.

So very well written.

A breath of fresh air in this stale environment.

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This is the quandry one runs into when confronting philosophies like Calvanism, where mankind is considered totally depraved and all the responsibility for salvation is given to God. We are made in the image of God. We freely choose to love, as God does. He has chosen to love each of us. We should not allow ourselves to be troubled by a literal interpretation of one small part of the material that was written about Jesus. I would never condemn any of my children to Hell, no matter what they did. I have a hard time believing that I am more loving than God, so I don't believe that He will, either. He loves His children more than we could ever love our own children.

Scriptures do Not say God condemns to hell. Hell [gravedom] happens to all that die including God's Son was in hell until God resurrected him.
Please see Acts 2:27,31; Psalm 16:10.

So just like you, God would not condemn his only-begotten Son to hell, but hell [grave] is the consequence for sin meaning that as Romans 6:23 says that 'death' is the wages sin pays. Since Jesus paid that asking price for our sins he died.
'Death' stamps the price tag of sin as "Paid In Full" because doesn't Romans 6:7 say the one who has died is acquitted or freed from sin?______

This does not necessarily mean innocent, but as a governor can pardon a person meaning that the charges no longer stick. So at death since a person is freed or acquitted from sin because of Adam [Romans 6:7] then they are entitled to a resurrection on the last day or Jesus 1000-year day.
-John 6:39,40,44,54. [the only exception: Matt 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6]

What would Jesus have believed he would be doing while in hell? Jesus knew from his words at John 11:11-14 that the dead are in a deep sleep-like state until they are resurrected. Wouldn't Jesus have gotten that belief from the Scriptures? Jesus knew King Solomon, who was known for his wisdom, wrote at Ecclesiastes 9:5 that the dead know nothing. Besides that, Jesus would have known the condition of the dead while in hell or the common grave of mankind as Psalm 6:5 says there is no remembrance in death. Psalm 13:3 sleep the sleep of death. Psalm 115:17 the dead do not praise God. Psalm 146:4 thoughts perish at death. Daniel 12:2 the dead sleep in the dust of the ground, and Daniel 12:13 Daniel expected to awaken from death's sleep at the end of the days. End of the days of badness on earth when Jesus will usher in Peace on Earth during his millennial reign over earth when Jesus will get rid of hell as Revelation 20:13,14 says. All in hell will be delivered up. Then, after all are delivered up, then emptied-out hell dies a symbolic death of no return.

 

[AK4]

This is the quandry one runs into when confronting philosophies like Calvanism, where mankind is considered totally depraved and all the responsibility for salvation is given to God. We are made in the image of God. We freely choose to love, as God does. He has chosen to love each of us. We should not allow ourselves to be troubled by a literal interpretation of one small part of the material that was written about Jesus. I would never condemn any of my children to Hell, no matter what they did. I have a hard time believing that I am more loving than God, so I don't believe that He will, either. He loves His children more than we could ever love our own children.

I agree except for what i underlined. Its not a quandry. The only thing that makes it a quandry is the doctrine of freewill and those who believe in this damnable myth. We are not made, as in completed, in the image of God, we are BEING made, as in a process, into the image of God. Check a hebrew interlinear of that verse and it will show that its not a completed act yet of God. Also we dont freely choose anything and we dont have a freewill to love God. As it says in Romans "it is the goodness of God" that makes us love Him not "its our freewill". Thats what makes the doctrine of hell or annihilation even more damnable because if it is God who gives and maintains our faith and He even punishes one person or being to a eternal hell or annihilation, then He is a monster and more evil and vile than even us humans. For that fact even more evil and vile than satan.

Thank God He is not like that at all!

 

[AK4]

End of the days of badness on earth when Jesus will usher in Peace on Earth .

See another doctrine that is taught that is unscriptural. Where do you find in scripture that when Jesus returns peace comes to the earth. The scriptures actually teach that that is when the Day of the Lord begins and His wrath begins. The Day of the Lord is not a single day but an age and that is when "the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness". Oh the many unscriptural teachings of christianity!

 

[berrychrisc]

Check a hebrew interlinear of that verse and it will show that its not a completed act yet of God... As it says in Romans "it is the goodness of God" that makes us love Him not "its our freewill".

Our difference lies in that I take a mystical / experiential approach to God and do not rely on an exoteric, literal interpretation of the Bible or any other sacred writing as an ultimate authority. I respect the fact that many Christians take such an approach to understanding God and I have experience with it myself, but I do not agree with it.

 

[AK4]

Our difference lies in that I take a mystical / experiential approach to God and do not rely on an exoteric, literal interpretation of the Bible or any other sacred writing as an ultimate authority. I respect the fact that many Christians take such an approach to understanding God and I have experience with it myself, but I do not agree with it.

I am the same i think with what i underlined except i hold the scriptures as the final authority.

 

[Danmac]

How could God condemn someone to hell when faith is only given by Him and only sustained by Him?

People are sentenced to hell because they reject God's offer of a free pardon, thru Jesus Christ. I do agree that Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world, but one must accept the offer.

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Danmac]

Scriptures do Not say God condemns to hell. Hell [gravedom] happens to all that die including God's Son was in hell until God resurrected him.
Please see Acts 2:27,31; Psalm 16:10.

So just like you, God would not condemn his only-begotten Son to hell, but hell [grave] is the consequence for sin meaning that as Romans 6:23 says that 'death' is the wages sin pays. Since Jesus paid that asking price for our sins he died.
'Death' stamps the price tag of sin as "Paid In Full" because doesn't Romans 6:7 say the one who has died is acquitted or freed from sin?______

So what are these verses suggesting?
Rev 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)

Rev 21: 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

1st Cor 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[Muffled]

"But the fearful [Gk: timid], and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Rev. 21:8).

Have you contemplated on this verse yet? Think about it. Your theology is saying that The fearful/timid are in the same class as murderers and they will be annihilated for being fearful and timid! Do you actually believe a just God will annihilate someone for being fearful and timid? Its insane. You are worshipping a monster if you believe this.

Do you think you can make God responsible for our weaknesses? Timidity will not be found among Christians. We are emboldened by the spirit of God.

 

[Muffled]

People are sentenced to hell because they reject God's offer of a free pardon, thru Jesus Christ. I do agree that Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world, but one must accept the offer.

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

This is the bottom line. The people who go to hell aren't necessarily the greatest sinners but simply have refused to be saved from hell.

 

[AK4]

People are sentenced to hell because they reject God's offer of a free pardon, thru Jesus Christ. I do agree that Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world, but one must accept the offer.

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

This is ludicris. How can one truly reject this pardon when it takes God to give them the faith of Jesus to want it? They can only reject it if God never gave them the faith to accept it. They can only accept it if God gave them the faith to accept it anyway.

 

[AK4]

Do you think you can make God responsible for our weaknesses? Timidity will not be found among Christians. We are emboldened by the spirit of God.

God is not responsible? Who created us? Who created evil? Who put us on earth? Who made this earth this way in the first place when we know He could have made it different? Who made all the circumstances that we experience? Who created satan to decieve us?

Timidity is not found in christians? Thats funny.If it wasnt then you would find millions of people challenging their pastors about what they teach. Theres more timidity in christianity than islam and probably any other religion. How timid are you to find out the truth of what the bible teaches on freewill? Find out the truth and you will have to step down off your throne that belongs to Jesus.

Let me add that christians are so timid about finding out the truth that they have a saying about them. "Hell has no fury like a christian shown the truth".

 

[LittleNipper]

God is not responsible? Who created us? Who created evil? Who put us on earth? Who made this earth this way in the first place when we know He could have made it different? Who made all the circumstances that we experience? Who created satan to decieve us?

Timidity is not found in christians? Thats funny.If it wasnt then you would find millions of people challenging their pastors about what they teach. Theres more timidity in christianity than islam and probably any other religion. How timid are you to find out the truth of what the bible teaches on freewill? Find out the truth and you will have to step down off your throne that belongs to Jesus.

Let me add that christians are so timid about finding out the truth that they have a saying about them. "Hell has no fury like a christian shown the truth".

We are all under the curse of the FALL of Adam. GOD has made a way, so the whosoever will may come... CHRIST comes to the door and knocks. If anyone heeds HIS voice and opens the door, HE will enter in.

 

[AK4]

We are all under the curse of the FALL of Adam. GOD has made a way, so the whosoever will may come... CHRIST comes to the door and knocks. If anyone heeds HIS voice and opens the door, HE will enter in.

Even IF there was a "fall", this in no way takes away the responsibility of God. He is the one who created Adam and Eve with spiritual weakness. He is the one who placed them in the garden. He is the one who put the serpent there to tempt them. Its so easy to see as in Adam all die and in Christ all will live, the same contrast is being displayed by God with the garden and Christ being tempted by satan in the wilderness. Adam shown to have spiritual weakness and not the Spirit of God without measure in the garden (earth) and Christ showing the example of what would happen if God gave man His spirit as much as He gave it to Jesus. Both was placed or led by God to a certain place. Both were tempted by satan. One "falls", one prevails. It was God purpose for Adam to "fall". [ Even though in actuality there was no fall]. It was Gods purpose Christ would prevail. Adam and Eve could not have done anything else than what they did.

 

[AK4]

Do you think you can make God responsible for our weaknesses? Timidity will not be found among Christians. We are emboldened by the spirit of God.

Also, it is not "I" who makes Him responsible. He says He is responsible for all things or do you think God lied when He states this over and over in the scriptures?

He