The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[Danmac]

Everything we quote has error in it, every book, every person, there is no perfection in humanity. Where humans were involved, error was involved. So why do you try to ask questions from people who think nothing like you?

Why don't you ask from your own kind?

Peace.

I'm asking you why you trust a book that you say is filled with error? How do you know what parts are true and what parts are lies?

 

[mickiel]

I'm asking you why you trust a book that you say is filled with error? How do you know what parts are true and what parts are lies?

The same way that you know when you are telling the truth or telling a lie, your own understanding. I understand what I understand, my belief is based on my understanding, as is my discernment of truth and falsehoods.

The bible has errors in it, and most of them have come from mistranslations, going from Greek and Hebrew, to Latin then english, translators changed and interpited things wrong, ESPICALLY the true meaning of hell.

Now again I ask you, why are you wasting your time with me, when you can be conversing with someone who would share your views and rub the ego of your belief?

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

The same way that you know when you are telling the truth or telling a lie, your own understanding. I understand what I understand, my belief is based on my understanding, as is my discernment of truth and falsehoods.

The bible has errors in it, and most of them have come from mistranslations, going from Greek and Hebrew, to Latin then english, translators changed and interpited things wrong, ESPICALLY the true meaning of hell.

Now again I ask you, why are you wasting your time with me, when you can be conversing with someone who would share your views and rub the ego of your belief?

Peace.

So if there is no hell what did Jesus need to save us from? Heaven?

 

[mickiel]

So if there is no hell what did Jesus need to save us from? Heaven?

Jesus came to save us from sin and ourselves and evil. Hell has absolutely NOTHING to do with human salvation, nothing.
It has just found a very large place within your belief, parked and planted itself there, and has grown within you ever since. You think this hell of your belief is the inspiration for human salvation.

ONLY Christ is the inspiration for salvation.

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

Jesus came to save us from sin and ourselves and evil. Hell has absolutely NOTHING to do with human salvation, nothing.
It has just found a very large place within your belief, parked and planted itself there, and has grown within you ever since. You think this hell of your belief is the inspiration for human salvation.

ONLY Christ is the inspiration for salvation.

Peace.

If there is no hell I don't need saved from sin, and if there is no hell there can be no evil. Unless of course it abides in heaven.

 

[mickiel]

If there is no hell I don't need saved from sin, and if there is no hell there can be no evil. Unless of course it abides in heaven.

Then hell is the center of your belief, its the reason you have faith, its the reason you believe in God, its the reason you are talking to me.

You don't need Christ, you need hell, so your spreading your needs to others.

There is no need for you to spread it to me, I don't need hell.

Enjoy your life, you don't need to be talking to me.

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

Then hell is the center of your belief, its the reason you have faith, its the reason you believe in God, its the reason you are talking to me.

You don't need Christ, you need hell, so your spreading your needs to others.

There is no need for you to spread it to me, I don't need hell.

Enjoy your life, you don't need to be talking to me.

Peace.

I suppose your right. But the same Jesus you trust had a lot to say about hell. If you think hell is mistranslated maybe you need to see it in it's original Greek.

Matt 10 kai phobeo apo me ho apokteino soma de dunamai me dunamai apokteino psuche de mallon phobeo ho dunamai apollumi kai psuche kai soma en geenna.

 

[mickiel]

I suppose your right. But the same Jesus you trust had a lot to say about hell. .

Another Christian blatant lie. Hell is referenced to in the bible slightly over 70 times. Heaven is referenced to over 1700 times. And Christians dare teach that Jesus spoke more about hell than he did Heaven.

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

Another Christian blatant lie. Hell is referenced to in the bible slightly over 70 times. Heaven is referenced to over 1700 times. And Christians dare teach that Jesus spoke more about hell than he did Heaven.

Peace.

The point is Jesus spoke about a hell that you say doesn't exist. Was Jesus lying?

 

[mickiel]

The point is Jesus spoke about a hell that you say doesn't exist. Was Jesus lying?

No, Christians are the ones who are lying, because they have inherited the lies of translators of the bible. When Jesus spoke of hell, he was referencing " Gehenna", which was a place of torment in the valley of Hinnom, southwest of Jerusalem. The valley came to be reguraded as a place of abomination because some of the Isralites sacrificed their children to " Moloch" there.

In a later period it was made a refuse dump and perpetual fires were maintained there to" prevent pestilence", that was the true orgin of its fire, a prevention, a purification. But the translastors of the bible, made Gehenna synonymous with the "New Christian belief", that hell was " The Lake of Fire", which is bogus. The lake of fire is real, but its not " Hell."

I don't complettely undersatand the Lake of Fire, but the bible states very clearly that this lake was created " For the devil and his Demons", not humans.

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

No, Christians are the ones who are lying, because they have inherited the lies of translators of the bible. When Jesus spoke of hell, he was referencing " Gehenna", which was a place of torment in the valley of Hinnom, southwest of Jerusalem. The valley came to be reguraded as a place of abomination because some of the Isralites sacrificed their children to " Moloch" there.

In a later period it was made a refuse dump and perpetual fires were maintained there to" prevent pestilence", that was the true orgin of its fire, a prevention, a purification. But the translastors of the bible, made Gehenna synonymous with the "New Christian belief", that hell was " The Lake of Fire", which is bogus. The lake of fire is real, but its not " Hell."

I don't complettely undersatand the Lake of Fire, but the bible states very clearly that this lake was created " For the devil and his Demons", not humans.

Peace.

So what is this place Jesus was speaking about? It doesn't sound much like a garbage dump.

Luke 16: 19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
(KJV)

 

[lockyfan]

This is the destructive view of God that so many have. They think in terms of him as a " Punisher". A destroyer of sin, and because humanity is sinful, a destroyer of sinful humans. Gods purpose is to save all of humanity from sin, to give us life, not to destroy us.

Peace.

What that God will kill the wicked? THat is destructivee? Do you believe that he will continue to allow hte earth to stay the same do you?

He is giving everyone a chance at everlasting life at repentance its just that most people look at it as an annoyance or nuisance. Remember the bible does say to preach and teach and make disiciples of the people of hte nations and also that the good news of hte kingdom will be preached to all the inhabited earth before armageddon comes.

The warnings are there in black and white in hte bible, Its just that people are blind to it SO jehovah tries to open your eyes but the question is Do you want your eyes opened?


Jer 19:5
And they built the high places of the Ba′al in order to burn their sons in the fire as whole burnt offerings to the Ba′al, something that I had not commanded or spoken of, and that had not come up into my heart.

He pronounced judgement upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem for burning their children in fires to a false God, saying it wasnt in his heart to do so.

So woul he then be a hypocrite and a liar if he allowed people to burn in hell forever to the Devil? Yes he would be. But we know that God can NOT LIE and therefore him being a liar is not an option. Also he has in the past and will in the future proclaim jdgement upon the hypocrites so therefore he cant be one himself.

So according to that scripture he does not want anyone to burn in fires. THe fire in the bible that is mentioned is that of symbolic not literal. He is gonig to destroy satan not allow him to rule in an underworld or whatever it is that hell is.

So to me, hell is A LIE. Created by the HYPOCRITES and LIARS and is in use today as a scare tactic and a stumbling block to people being able to know the true God.

 

[berrychrisc]

THe fire in the bible that is mentioned is that of symbolic not literal.

I agree. I do not believe that the Bible or any sacred text should be read using an exoteric, fundamentalist interpretation.

 

[mickiel]

So what is this place Jesus was speaking about? It doesn't sound much like a garbage dump.

Luke 16: 19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
(KJV)

I really don't know what Jesus is talking about here. But this I know, if there was a hell, why would God allow those in it, to communicate with those in Heaven, or anywherelse? That makes no sense at all, its even more cruel. If there was a great gulf fixed between them, why could they see each other and speak to one another? And why would Abraham be the one this guy saw and spoke to, and why would you not question this? What does Abraham have to do with these people in hell?

And why would this stupid man ask for a finger to be dipped in water and applied to his tounge, instead of asking for a pitcher of water? If he thinks hes going to get what he ask for, then why is he asking for so little to drink? No, its all too dramitical, too much senseless drama, which is unlike Christ teachings.

I see something seriously wrong here.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

I agree. I do not believe that the Bible or any sacred text should be read using an exoteric, fundamentalist interpretation.

I agree with Luckyfan also.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

For far too long, Religion has been the venue that explians God, thats WHY we are in the mess we are in, in our understanding. When on occassion I speak with religious people, I see so much blindness that I am taken back, so much acceptable deception. Its like a person being convinced to swallow posion, and made to love that poision, as it slowly kills them. The whole head of man is sick, his whole heart faint, from the sole of his foot, to the top of his head, there is no soundness in him.

And I want to go into why man is sick.

Peace.

 

[KalithAlur]

Some hypotheticals are too massive in proportions to be refuted.

The rationale of a particular gamble can be determined based on potential win, potential loss, and probability of either. Concerning infinite hypotheticals, a potential loss of (infinite suffering) vs. a potential win of (infinite bliss) baselines the importance of probability of whether the stakes are real, since nothing can be disproven completely.

When the only two options are (Heaven) or (Hell), Heaven is obviously the right answer. Any decision without cost resulting in an increased probability of going to Heaven and not going to Hell is the right decision.

This ceases to be the truth the more complex the stakes become. When the consequences are more complex than (Heaven) or (Hell) - if it is possible a given decision could result in either - it is more important to weigh probabilities as accurately as possible. Example: religious diversity. If every religion in history is examined, some ways to heaven for one religion might result in eternal damnation by the standards of another. If one is ignorant of these spiritual customs, they do not way in because they are possibilities that are never considered.

I consider the ethicality of the existence of heaven and hell another important issue. "Heaven" in exchange for accepting the key, or "hell" in exchange for your own inevitable stupidity. The argument is made: it is your fault if you sin, but you have to, you're human. I heard somebody today say that stealing a candy bar qualifies one to suffer infinitely (unless I was mistranslating).

There are different ways of interpreting heaven and hell. Heaven can mean isolation from God, the source of love. This would mean that by rejecting God's love, one rejects salvation from misery.

 

[mickiel]

Well that demonstrates the foolishness of human thought, as we attempt to interpit what God will do. The punishment does not fit the crime. However, the real crime being committed, is this absurd teaching that God would punish forever, a person who steals a candy bar.

Just incredible inane inuindo.

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

I really don't know what Jesus is talking about here. But this I know, if there was a hell, why would God allow those in it, to communicate with those in Heaven, or anywherelse? That makes no sense at all, its even more cruel. If there was a great gulf fixed between them, why could they see each other and speak to one another? And why would Abraham be the one this guy saw and spoke to, and why would you not question this? What does Abraham have to do with these people in hell?

And why would this stupid man ask for a finger to be dipped in water and applied to his tounge, instead of asking for a pitcher of water? If he thinks hes going to get what he ask for, then why is he asking for so little to drink? No, its all too dramitical, too much senseless drama, which is unlike Christ teachings.

I see something seriously wrong here.

Peace.

This is part of Christs teachings. It just doesn;t fit with your beliefs. But Jesus is refering to a place of torment here, whatever you want to call it.
_____________________________________________________
Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true. -Bacon

 

[Danmac]

Well that demonstrates the foolishness of human thought, as we attempt to interpit what God will do. The punishment does not fit the crime. However, the real crime being committed, is this absurd teaching that God would punish forever, a person who steals a candy bar.

Just incredible inane inuindo.

Peace.

The Bible says there are different degrees of punishment.

Luke 12: 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.