The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[AK4]

What I see online, everyday, is really the effort of Godless people, trying to take control from God, and think themselves as the explination of things that only God explians. We make ourselves God, live as if we are the orgin of Consciousness.

For those God has granted eyes to see and heart to understand, this is exactly what Paul was attacking in most of his epistles. I dont think they called freewill back then but that is exactly what Paul was constantly addressing in all his letters. He was tackling back then what we call now, freewill. I mean his letters are littered with it. And actually its not just his letters, the whole bible attacks this subject. This is how Paul was able to write about the "man sitting in the the temple of God, claiming himself to be a god" and hardly anyone notices that this is the "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Daniel and Jesus.

Its man himself, you, me who they are speaking of, not some satan incarnation as christianitys "prophets" of doom speak. Atheists surely fit this description of what you said above "trying to take control from God, and think themselves as the explination of things that only God explians. We make ourselves God". But its not just atheists, its the whole world or 99% of it. Thats why it says satan decieves the whole world, except for the elect.

 

[Muffled]

You see this is the appitude that most Christians have, they condemn you to their hell. Highly judgemental,strangely sorid, utterly unmerciful, commonly cruel, and religious condemnation.

None of which describes God.

Peace.

Methinks you protest too much. If I see a person enter a sleezy bar, I can be pretty sure he didn't go there to attend church. A person's actions, attitudes and beliefs condemn him or as Jesus put it, the world is already in a condemned state and in need of a savior.

We inherit this trait from the Father.

BS. If I don't warn you I would be unmerciful.

There was a song out a long time ago and the words said "You have to be cruel to be kind." I had a crush on a girl in high school who could have devastated me if she had shown an inkling of encouragement but she quite cruelly shut me off completely. Now I am very thankful that she did.

I don't think you have a leg to stand on with that reference.

 

[AxisMundi]

Spoken truly as someone who knows nothing about God or the scriptures.

Ah yes, the "appeal to ignorance" fallacy.

Sorry Charlie, all that does is to illustrate your arrogance and false sense of superiority.

I was raised a Roman Catholic and left that religion in my teens. In the 40 years since, I have remained an informal student of religion. I know your scriptures, and I know your god.

 

[AK4]

Ah yes, the "appeal to ignorance" fallacy.

Sorry Charlie, all that does is to illustrate your arrogance and false sense of superiority.

I was raised a Roman Catholic and left that religion in my teens. In the 40 years since, I have remained an informal student of religion. I know your scriptures, and I know your god.

No sense of superiority here. And Roman Catholic? LOL and this is where people can learn the truths of God? LOL. What truths of God do the catholic faith teach? What do they know of God really? Its a religion of contradictions and half truths. You may know the bible [even Jack Van Impe knows the bible but has not a clue on what the gospel is], but i garauntee you dont know my God, the one true God and His Son. The catholic and protestant faith know nothing of them at all.

 

[Petriebird]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

I just want to say that you have a heart similar to mine, and I've had a hard time accepting the concept of hell, however simply put hell is very real. There is a force out there that opposes good, a force that wants to steal as many souls from god as it can and it will do anything to get them. If you were to put your entire soul into finding the true heart of god.... you would find this.... god wishes for all men to return to him.... we are in a world filled with good and evil, sort of a learning ground to understand what is what..... and in the process many if not most of us get grabbed by the forces of evil. God values our will so much that he will never make us choose heaven over hell but he offers it to ALL men...... ALL MEN are welcome in heaven.

However there are some that for some reason or another do not turn from eternal hell fire, the reasons for this are debateable and perhaps beyond comprehension. Still the simple fact of the matter is that god gets no joy out of turning anyone from heaven....

Some of the greatest men in the bible were murderers.... if that doesn't show the true heart of god.... what does?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I just want to say that you have a heart similar to mine, and I've had a hard time accepting the concept of hell, however simply put hell is very real. There is a force out there that opposes good, a force that wants to steal as many souls from god as it can and it will do anything to get them. If you were to put your entire soul into finding the true heart of god.... you would find this.... god wishes for all men to return to him.... we are in a world filled with good and evil, sort of a learning ground to understand what is what..... and in the process many if not most of us get grabbed by the forces of evil. God values our will so much that he will never make us choose heaven over hell but he offers it to ALL men...... ALL MEN are welcome in heaven.
However there are some that for some reason or another do not turn from eternal hell fire, the reasons for this are debateable and perhaps beyond comprehension. Still the simple fact of the matter is that god gets no joy out of turning anyone from heaven....
Some of the greatest men in the bible were murderers.... if that doesn't show the true heart of god.... what does?

Yes, hell is very real because according to Scripture Jesus was in hell.
Acts 2:27,31.
But what is the Bible hell or hell fire? We can see by Jesus words at John 11:11-14 that Jesus believed that the dead are in a deep sleep-like state until they are resurrected. So Jesus would have believed that until God resurrected him from hell that he would in that deep sleeping state.

Since Jesus knew all of the Scriptures very well, Jesus would have knowledge of what the Bible writers had already written such as Solomon who wrote that the dead know nothing at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10.
Jesus was also familiar with the Psalms such as:
Psalm 6:5 that in death there is no remembrance
Psalm 13:3 the dead sleep the sleep of death
Psalm 115:17 the dead do not praise God
Psalm 146:4 at death thoughts perish.

See also Daniel 12:2,13.

Hellfire is often translated from the word Gehenna. Gehenna is a different word from the Hebrew word Sheol or the Greek word Hades.
Gehenna was garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed. Things were burnt up until they were ashes. Things were not kept burning forever. So Gehenna or hellfire is a fitting symbol of destruction.

So Jesus was in Hades [hell] and not in Gehenna [hellfire]. 2 Thess 1:9.

Besides Satan being destroyed (Hebrews 2:14 b), also hell will come to an end. Revelation 20:13,14 shows that hell will deliver up those dead in hell, then emptied-out hell dies a symbolic second death of no return. That is why Revelation 21:4 can rightly say that even death will be no more.

Are the people of Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6 welcome in heaven?
If they were, there would be no need for Matthew 20:28 B to say that Jesus ransom covers 'many'.

 

[AxisMundi]

Yes, hell is very real because according to Scripture Jesus was in hell. .....

To use your scriptures as evidence, first you must establish scriptures as self-supporting evidence.

A daunting task indeed considering much of it is disproved, and the rest full of self-contradictions and historical inaccuracies.

 

[AK4]

Yes, hell is very real because according to Scripture Jesus was in hell.
Acts 2:27,31.
But what is the Bible hell or hell fire? We can see by Jesus words at John 11:11-14 that Jesus believed that the dead are in a deep sleep-like state until they are resurrected. So Jesus would have believed that until God resurrected him from hell that he would in that deep sleeping state.

Since Jesus knew all of the Scriptures very well, Jesus would have knowledge of what the Bible writers had already written such as Solomon who wrote that the dead know nothing at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10.
Jesus was also familiar with the Psalms such as:
Psalm 6:5 that in death there is no remembrance
Psalm 13:3 the dead sleep the sleep of death
Psalm 115:17 the dead do not praise God
Psalm 146:4 at death thoughts perish.

See also Daniel 12:2,13.

Hellfire is often translated from the word Gehenna. Gehenna is a different word from the Hebrew word Sheol or the Greek word Hades.
Gehenna was garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed. Things were burnt up until they were ashes. Things were not kept burning forever. So Gehenna or hellfire is a fitting symbol of destruction.

So Jesus was in Hades [hell] and not in Gehenna [hellfire]. 2 Thess 1:9.

Besides Satan being destroyed (Hebrews 2:14 b), also hell will come to an end. Revelation 20:13,14 shows that hell will deliver up those dead in hell, then emptied-out hell dies a symbolic second death of no return. That is why Revelation 21:4 can rightly say that even death will be no more.

Are the people of Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6 welcome in heaven?
If they were, there would be no need for Matthew 20:28 B to say that Jesus ransom covers 'many'.

Can you see your own contradictions? Do you believe the scriptures that says God does not lie? If so, then why can you believe in contradictions? You quote Rev 21:4 that says And God shall wipe away all tears, from their eyes, and there shall be NO MORE DEATH, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more PAIN; for the former things are PASSED AWAY" (Rev. 21:4) then say He only saves "many"? Can we say contradiction?

It says "no more death" so any form of death, even if its in the minds of those who are saved, exists then death IS NOT "no more".

Also this same word that you are getting "many" is the same word in this Revelation verse for all. So by your theology that Revelation verse should say

And God shall wipe away all [No this should be "many" by your theology]tears, from their eyes, and there shall be NO MORE DEATH, [Nope, because apparently no doesnt mean no here, since some will be annihilated/dead forever] neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more PAIN; for the former things are PASSED AWAY" [nope wrong again bible---death will not pass away because those annihilated will stay dead for ever, so you [the Word of God] is a liar]

URAVIP2ME, this is what you are saying rather you want to admit it or not.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Both Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6 shows there are those that Jesus ransom of Matthew 20:28 does not cover. Everlasting destruction is their end. -2Thess 1:9.
Including Satan is not death proof. -Hebrews 2:14 B.
Satan's destruction is equal to the second death of no returning.

Please notice those destroyed by angelic forces [Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:11,14,15] will not be part of Jesus peaceful 1000-year rule over earth. So there will be no resurrection for those executed by Christ. No resurrection for those of Psalm 92:7. It is after the ones worthy of a resurrection [the 'many' of Matt 20:28] that once all the dead are delivered up from hell according to Rev 20:13,14 then during that peaceful millennial rule, at that time, is when finally: 'death will be no more' for those that are Not part of Matthew 12:32;
Hebrews 6:4-6.

Death due from Adamic sin passes away. The 'second death' of Revelation does not pass away.

 

[logician]

Please notice those destroyed by angelic forces [Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:11,14,15] will not be part of Jesus peaceful 1000-year rule over earth. .

LIke everything else you post, this makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[AK4]

Both Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6 shows there are those that Jesus ransom of Matthew 20:28 does not cover. Everlasting destruction is their end. -2Thess 1:9.
Including Satan is not death proof. -Hebrews 2:14 B.
Satan's destruction is equal to the second death of no returning.

Please notice those destroyed by angelic forces [Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:11,14,15] will not be part of Jesus peaceful 1000-year rule over earth. So there will be no resurrection for those executed by Christ. No resurrection for those of Psalm 92:7. It is after the ones worthy of a resurrection [the 'many' of Matt 20:28] that once all the dead are delivered up from hell according to Rev 20:13,14 then during that peaceful millennial rule, at that time, is when finally: 'death will be no more' for those that are Not part of Matthew 12:32;
Hebrews 6:4-6.

Death due from Adamic sin passes away. The 'second death' of Revelation does not pass away.

It matters not what you quote because i can do the same thing and quote dozens of scriptures too [note: there is a big difference in quoting spurious bible verses versus scripture].

The point is death. Either its no more or it still exists in some form or fashion. We have plain statements saying NO MORE DEATH. We have spurious statements saying everlasting death. And we have the plain statement that God does not lie. So you either have no death or death, you cant have both. You have death anywhere then you call God a liar when He says No More Death. Its that plain and simple. You did your "research" on the word hell now you need to do your research on the words everlasting, forever and ever and eternal.

Its simple, theres either death or no death. God is true or God is a liar. Either everlasting destruction or no more death.

Which do you think is could be a spurious translation; everlasting destruction or no more death? You say both then you say God is a liar.

 

[AK4]

Both Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6 shows there are those that Jesus ransom of Matthew 20:28 does not cover. Everlasting destruction is their end. -2Thess 1:9.
Including Satan is not death proof. -Hebrews 2:14 B.
Satan's destruction is equal to the second death of no returning.

Please notice those destroyed by angelic forces [Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:11,14,15] will not be part of Jesus peaceful 1000-year rule over earth. So there will be no resurrection for those executed by Christ. No resurrection for those of Psalm 92:7. It is after the ones worthy of a resurrection [the 'many' of Matt 20:28] that once all the dead are delivered up from hell according to Rev 20:13,14 then during that peaceful millennial rule, at that time, is when finally: 'death will be no more' for those that are Not part of Matthew 12:32;
Hebrews 6:4-6.

Death due from Adamic sin passes away. The 'second death' of Revelation does not pass away.

"But the fearful [Gk: timid], and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Rev. 21:8).

Have you contemplated on this verse yet? Think about it. Your theology is saying that The fearful/timid are in the same class as murderers and they will be annihilated for being fearful and timid! Do you actually believe a just God will annihilate someone for being fearful and timid? Its insane. You are worshipping a monster if you believe this.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Fearful [Greek: also Coward] and unbelieving etc. is set after the resurrection of Rev. chapter 20. So that verse is talking about behaviors after they are resurrected.
Those timid or cowardly ones do not have the courage to love what God loves and hate what God hates.

We are not living at that future time of Jesus peaceful thousand-year rule over earth.
We are living at the time of Matthew 13:47,48 which is leading up to the time of Matthew 25:31,32 when Jesus will separate the living people on earth, and only those at his right hand of favor will continue to live on or remain alive on earth right into the start of Jesus millennial rule when Jesus ushers in Peace on earth toward men of goodwill.

 

[Danmac]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

A man that chooses to go left when he should have went right has only himself to blame. Do you blame others for your bad choices that lead to bad consequences?

 

[JerryG]

We come from hellfire and in the end must return to hellfire. Therefore eternal hellfire is a valid physical concept as far as the universe is concerned. Man only exists when the temperature of the universe is low. No mind or thought can exist during the periods of intense temperatures.

Although we come from hellfire, it is of no concern to us. Somehow ancient man understood that the concept of hellfire was a true physical concept. Ignorance and fear has turned the true concept into a nightmare for many unfortunate victims of fearful early man.

 

[mickiel]

A man that chooses to go left when he should have went right has only himself to blame. Do you blame others for your bad choices that lead to bad consequences?

Never., I have hundreds of post here, show me just one where I blamed others for my problems. Just one!

Well your not going to find that one, because Its something I do not do.

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

Never., I have hundreds of post here, show me just one where I blamed others for my problems. Just one!

Well your not going to find that one, because Its something I do not do.

Peace.

So how could someone blame God for going to hell when they choose to go there?

 

[mickiel]

So how could someone blame God for going to hell when they choose to go there?

You need to be in a conversation with someone who believes in hell, because I don't believe in it. Therefore to me, no blame for man is involved in sin. The blame for sin has been complettely satisfied in Gods eyes through Jesus sacrifical death. All the sins of humanity have been, and still currently is, complettely covered. That has taken the blame away, the quilt of sin has been removed.

But its believers like yourself who still want to blame people and keep the sting of death alive.


Me and you can't talk man, I already know that.
Peace.

 

[Danmac]

You need to be in a conversation with someone who believes in hell, because I don't believe in it. Therefore to me, no blame for man is involved in sin. The blame for sin has been complettely satisfied in Gods eyes through Jesus sacrifical death. All the sins of humanity have been, and still currently is, complettely covered. That has taken the blame away, the quilt of sin has been removed.

But its believers like yourself who still want to blame people and keep the sting of death alive.


Me and you can't talk man, I already know that.
Peace.

So why do you quote a bible that you say is filled with error?

 

[mickiel]

So why do you quote a bible that you say is filled with error?

Everything we quote has error in it, every book, every person, there is no perfection in humanity. Where humans were involved, error was involved. So why do you try to ask questions from people who think nothing like you?

Why don't you ask from your own kind?

Peace.