The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[Beta]

And what of the family that Job lost? Is a human life so expendable that you can say, "It's OK, he got another one."? Whether he became rich or not, there's no telling what kind of mental scars were left on Job after going through what he did. How can you be so sure that Job enjoyed his new life after the trauma of how he lost his old one? I just can't see any kind of loving or generosity in God after reading this story.

Friend , you do not seem to understand the concept of ' Eternal Life ' and how it is achieved. What truly called persons have to go through in this life do not compare with the rewards of immortallity.
Perhaps i could explain on a material level. If man wants to produce something with endurable qualities we have to pass it through test after test to see how any improvements stand up to wear and tear. This is common practice in manufacture of items prone to great stress-factors.
Would you rather see God cast imperfect man into the waste bin instead of improving us ? Compared to God we know nothing yet and if we are to grow into HIS likeness we have to learn - very often the hard way , how else will it make an impact on us that lasts ?
Certain things God can produce in an instant - other things take hard work which just happens to be man. Our resistance to God makes his work more difficult. :yes:

 

[mickiel]

God is Love, the best reason why no humans will suffer for an Eternity.

God is Perfect Joy, the best reason why he would never co-exist with eternal misery in humans.

God is Peace, the best reason why he wouldnot create a hell of constant pain enhancement for humans.

God is Patient, the best reason why there is nothing any human can do during their appointed years of living that he wouldnot suffer long with them, holding their future in mind.

God is Kind, the best reason he will always forgive you, the amount of times is meaningless to him. Forgiveness is eternal with God!

God is Good, eternal hell is not. There is no stain in Gods plans for our future. The hell concept is a serious stain, nothing Good about it.

God is Faithful, he has Promised to give us all Salvation free of charge,if there was a hell, it would cost far too many human lives.

God is Gentle, Hell is insane.

God is Self Control, a creation of eternal suffering, is absolutely no sign of self Control in a God.

Peace.

These ways and Beings of God are far more dynamic than any Christian teaching, our Hope is based on God, not Christianity, God, and he Alone. Jesus gave his Life as " A Ransom for ALL!" 1Tim. 2:6, Christianity is trying to limit this " All", to mean only them, because they are " Salvation Shortsighted."

And I want to get into that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

These ways and Beings of God are far more dynamic than any Christian teaching, our Hope is based on God, not Christianity, God, and he Alone. Jesus gave his Life as " A Ransom for ALL!" 1Tim. 2:6, Christianity is trying to limit this " All", to mean only them, because they are " Salvation Shortsighted."

And I want to get into that.

Peace.

Shortsighted Salvation is basically what Jesus saw in Hypocrites, self righteous believers who are self convinced that Salvation is only for those who " Choose it like they did." Matt. 23:13;" But woe to you Hypocrites because you " Shut off the Kingdom of Heaven from men." Shutting off Gods Kingdom from men means a mindset that ardently limits the unstoppable ways that Jesus can save humanity. They teach " Only those who Repent- a shutting off". They teach only those who Believe- a Shutting off of the Kingdom of free Liberty. They teach only those who's sins are forgiven, a gross limiting of Gods Forgiveness.

Atheist too shut off Gods Kingdom by teaching there is no Kingdom, or a God.

There exist a whole generation of those, who for various reasons, are trying to shut off the Free Flow of Gods Salvation.

And I want to expose that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

.

Atheist too shut off Gods Kingdom by teaching there is no Kingdom, or a God.

There exist a whole generation of those, who for various reasons, are trying to shut off the Free Flow of Gods Salvation.

And I want to expose that.

Peace.

One of the natural tenents of human nature is to go after those " On Top." Go after those who have reached a high level of living, and target them for whatever reason. President Obama is now experiencing this, as ANY President has or will. Billionares experience it, as Rupert Murdock and Bill Gates now are, and so on.

Well nothing is at a Higher level than God, and more humans are after him than anythingelse, and God knows and expects this, he is the utmost! And we are going to go after him. Atheist will bombard him daily all their lives, scientist are after God, Communist are after him, and even Religion is after him, trying to claim him as their own.

And let me show a picture of what this furious chase has done to the Consciousness of Man.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

One of the natural tenents of human nature is to go after those " On Top." Go after those who have reached a high level of living, and target them for whatever reason. President Obama is now experiencing this, as ANY President has or will. Billionares experience it, as Rupert Murdock and Bill Gates now are, and so on.

Well nothing is at a Higher level than God, and more humans are after him than anythingelse, and God knows and expects this, he is the utmost! And we are going to go after him. Atheist will bombard him daily all their lives, scientist are after God, Communist are after him, and even Religion is after him, trying to claim him as their own.

And let me show a picture of what this furious chase has done to the Consciousness of Man.

Peace.

Basically governments want social control, the darkness will allow that, only to ultimately bring about lack of control and then break down that government. Generations after generations of human governments have been destroyed and the Darkness performed it in a manner that it wouldnot be blamed. Humans blamed themselves and other humans, and are still blaming each other until this very day, as the darkness rolls on in its intent to crush humanity.

Part of the structure that made human civilization possible, is the Darkness.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

Shortsighted Salvation is basically what Jesus saw in Hypocrites, self righteous believers who are self convinced that Salvation is only for those who " Choose it like they did." Matt. 23:13;" But woe to you Hypocrites because you " Shut off the Kingdom of Heaven from men." Shutting off Gods Kingdom from men means a mindset that ardently limits the unstoppable ways that Jesus can save humanity. They teach " Only those who Repent- a shutting off". They teach only those who Believe- a Shutting off of the Kingdom of free Liberty. They teach only those who's sins are forgiven, a gross limiting of Gods Forgiveness.

Atheist too shut off Gods Kingdom by teaching there is no Kingdom, or a God.

There exist a whole generation of those, who for various reasons, are trying to shut off the Free Flow of Gods Salvation.

And I want to expose that.

Peace.

NO PERSON can shut off God's KGD, can shut off SALVATION, can shut off REPENTANCE !!! No matter what people say or preach NO PERSON can limmit GOD in doing what he wants to do . But a person can shut THEMSELVES OFF when they refuse to do what God asks of them. That is what cuts a person off from God = disobedience and defiance to Him. Refusing to move from one's own stance and opinion in opposition to God is a serious sin. Anyone refusing to move from their own mistaken ideas is in trouble with God.
Telling us you want to go into that
telling us you want to expose it will achieve NOTHING if it is not actually taken up seriously - looking at our own situation FIRST.

 

[mickiel]

Basically governments want social control, the darkness will allow that, only to ultimately bring about lack of control and then break down that government. Generations after generations of human governments have been destroyed and the Darkness performed it in a manner that it wouldnot be blamed. Humans blamed themselves and other humans, and are still blaming each other until this very day, as the darkness rolls on in its intent to crush humanity.

Part of the structure that made human civilization possible, is the Darkness.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

The Darkness made eternal hell suffering a Christian doctrine, just as it made Slavery in America for the Blacks of those times. Eternal hell torture is just as much a part of the human physce as is predjudice. Both were planted and cultivated by the Darkness. Both are Powerful, only because the Darkness is Powerful. When God released Adam into the earth, human civilization offically began, and I think that was over 14,000 years ago, but could be upwards of even longer than that, I am not really sure as of now. Yet one of the proofs of God, is growing knowledge within our consciousness, so I know that one day we will know and understand.

Our Governments can loose control in a matter of days, WHY? Because of the people-- NO! Because of the Darkness and its power over the people and the heads of state. Governments can do just as much evil as the people, because its people who are running the governments and holding their positions.

Consciousness is the true governor of behavior, espically in politics.

And let me get deeper into that.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

The Darkness made eternal hell suffering a Christian doctrine, just as it made Slavery in America for the Blacks of those times. Eternal hell torture is just as much a part of the human physce as is predjudice. Both were planted and cultivated by the Darkness. Both are Powerful, only because the Darkness is Powerful. When God released Adam into the earth, human civilization offically began, and I think that was over 14,000 years ago, but could be upwards of even longer than that, I am not really sure as of now. Yet one of the proofs of God, is growing knowledge within our consciousness, so I know that one day we will know and understand.

Our Governments can loose control in a matter of days, WHY? Because of the people-- NO! Because of the Darkness and its power over the people and the heads of state. Governments can do just as much evil as the people, because its people who are running the governments and holding their positions.

Consciousness is the true governor of behavior, espically in politics.

And let me get deeper into that.

Peace.

You are losing me now friend. I have noticed of late that you seem to answer your own posts. I understand you may have a lot to say (as do we all) but if you don't interact with others you will end up only talking to yourself which is not very enlightening , is it ?
All I know is that God allows what is going on in the world for a set time. And when that time is up (very soon now) things will change.
Another thing God is doing is working with individual people until that change takes place. God is correcting single people now - not the whole world. So we need to look to our own mistakes first before blaming others for theirs.
God's Word is for our correction ! :yes:

 

[mickiel]

Consciousness is the true governor of behavior, espically in politics.

And let me get deeper into that.

Peace.

President Bush made a decision to invade Iraq mostly based on his Consciousness and those around him, convinced they had WMD'S, they tore into Iraq and tore it up. There were no WMD's, all there was was American Consciousness being influenced by the Darkness. The Darkness told Americas leaders that the Darkness was inside of Sadamm and his cronies. Interesting, the Darkness leading the Darkness to Attack the Darkness, or be at war with itself, but each government will swear it was right! Look at that utter confusion and how literally nothing has been done about this.

Its the same destructive mentality that created the sick concept of eternal hell suffering, the Christians have been freely teaching this insanity for years, with literally nothing being done about it, because the same Darkness has given them free rein.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

President Bush made a decision to invade Iraq mostly based on his Consciousness and those around him, convinced they had WMD'S, they tore into Iraq and tore it up. There were no WMD's, all there was was American Consciousness being influenced by the Darkness. The Darkness told Americas leaders that the Darkness was inside of Sadamm and his cronies. Interesting, the Darkness leading the Darkness to Attack the Darkness, or be at war with itself, but each government will swear it was right! Look at that utter confusion and how literally nothing has been done about this.

Its the same destructive mentality that created the sick concept of eternal hell suffering, the Christians have been freely teaching this insanity for years, with literally nothing being done about it, because the same Darkness has given them free rein.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

Just spotted your new thread friend and can see you are in your element.
I have read some posts but could not find ONE single Word GOD was saying. It's all about YOURSELF. With all the interst you show in God how is it you don't let HIM speak ? He has got to take all that ***** from you and he does not get to answer ?
Creation is all about the Almighty God and HIS WILL and really not about our imaginary perceptions of him. God deals in facts and reality not in human philosophies that is what Christ is coming to deal with - human arrogance and disobedience. THEN HE will speak and man will be quiet !!!:thud:

 

[mickiel]

.

Its the same destructive mentality that created the sick concept of eternal hell suffering, the Christians have been freely teaching this insanity for years, with literally nothing being done about it, because the same Darkness has given them free rein.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

In Matt. 24:21 is absolute Scriptural proof that Eternal Hell is a Christian myth, misinterpitation and lewd desire, comming out of THEIR hearts! Jesus said there will be a " Great Tribulation", such has NOT occured since the beginning of the world until now, " NOR EVER SHALL." This is very revealing, because Jesus is calling this tribulation Great, now IF Eternal torture in Eternity was real, then it MUST be FAR greater than this Tribulation Jesus said has NEVER occured, nor EVER shall again!

Eternal punishing would be greater than a short time tribulation, now wouldnot it be? Then Jesus said nothing like this suffering " Will EVER happen Again."

Jesus just totally cancels out the perception of eternal suffering right here.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

Eternal punishing would be greater than a short time tribulation, now wouldnot it be? Then Jesus said nothing like this suffering " Will EVER happen Again."

Jesus just totally cancels out the perception of eternal suffering right here.

Peace.

Why keep pressing that point to me since I don't subscribe to it ? :no: Tell it to the traditional christians !

 

[mickiel]

Why keep pressing that point to me since I don't subscribe to it ? :no: Tell it to the traditional christians !

I am not talking to you, I hold no intrest in you. Why are you even perceiving that I am talking to you? I am not refering to you in the least. I have not refered to your name, have not addressed you at all.

No, its YOUR desire that I am talking to you, YOUR misconception, your claim. I am not commenting on your post, I am not showing intrest in you, its the other way around.

Yet you would try to make the impression that I am talking to you. And I know why, you are transparent and I see through you. And hold no intrest in what I see.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Quess what is part of the American dream, of not only the USA, but the mentality of most of the iltelligent nations of this world, the dream and influence of an eternal hell fire! Its all in our belief and unbelief, widening its influence and creating a very false picture of Almighty God, the Creator of Life and its Longevity. One would think its very hard to imagine an eternal life in complette utter misery and punishment, yet so many have this thought somewhere in their Consciousness.

Conversely, why is it so hard to imagine an eternal life in Joy and Peace, as if thats NOT a thought we can rely on?

And I want to go into this unique Contridiction.

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Friend , you do not seem to understand the concept of ' Eternal Life ' and how it is achieved. What truly called persons have to go through in this life do not compare with the rewards of immortallity.

But isn't there a difference between being immortal and eternal life?

No where was Adam granted or gifted with being immortal.
Adam was offered eternal life or everlasting life if faithful.
If Adam was immortal he would have been death proof.
To remain alive Adam needed the breath of life besides eating, etc.

Both remain alive that's true, but eternal life comes with warranty requirements. When one has a warranty one knows if something goes wrong it will be taken care of. However, a warranty requires us to keep our obligations to the requirements for the warranty. Eternal life required obedience to God's way of ruling. Once Adam sinned he was taking God's law into his own hands and lost not immortality but lost eternal life.

Those of Rev 5vs9.10 that rule with Jesus will be blessed with immortality as Jesus was granted or given immortality to have life within oneself- John 5:2v26

Since death frees or acquits [Romans 6v7] except for those of Matt 12v32; Heb 6vs4-6, then the choice is in God's hands who will end up with immortality in the heavens, or who will be part of the humble meek to inherit eternal life on earth starting with Jesus peaceful 1000-year rule over earth.

 

[Beta]

But isn't there a difference between being immortal and eternal life?

No where was Adam granted or gifted with being immortal.
Adam was offered eternal life or everlasting life if faithful.
If Adam was immortal he would have been death proof.
To remain alive Adam needed the breath of life besides eating, etc.

Both remain alive that's true, but eternal life comes with warranty requirements. When one has a warranty one knows if something goes wrong it will be taken care of. However, a warranty requires us to keep our obligations to the requirements for the warranty. Eternal life required obedience to God's way of ruling. Once Adam sinned he was taking God's law into his own hands and lost not immortality but lost eternal life.

Those of Rev 5vs9.10 that rule with Jesus will be blessed with immortality as Jesus was granted or given immortality to have life within oneself- John 5:2v26

Since death frees or acquits [Romans 6v7] except for those of Matt 12v32; Heb 6vs4-6, then the choice is in God's hands who will end up with immortality in the heavens, or who will be part of the humble meek to inherit eternal life on earth starting with Jesus peaceful 1000-year rule over earth.

This is news to me friend . I have never heard of a difference between Eternal Life and Immortality. I always believed it to be the one and same thing.
As far as I understand scripture Adam never had either. He was not created as an immortal soul - when God breathed into him the breath of life it was human life (not et.life) and he became a LIVING SOUL (not an eternal living soul). Adam would have become immortal /eternally living if he had obeyed God and chosen the right tree God had commanded him Gen.2v16,17. In Ezek.18v4 we read that the soul (a living person) that sins shall die.Job says that man is mortal. 1Cor.15v45 the first man Adam was made a living soul; the last man (Jesus) was made a quickening spirit. A different life in each from the start.
Trad.christianity believes in Adam's and all men's immortal soul which has no scriptural support. ETERNAL LIFE / IMMORTALITY is a GIFT from God - no man (apart from Jesus ) is born with it . The HS of God is required for that and is given only to the obedient Acts 5v32. Adam was not obedient and did not have eternal life or immortality.
This is my understanding of scripture.

 

[Brother2]

Eternal Punishing or Eternal Punishment?? Eternity or Eternal?? Forever or as long a life lasts?

Hell is indeed not a central truth of Scripture. The central truth is that God loves His Creation and wants everyone to be saved into His eternal kingdom.

However, His Gift of love has to be accepted and because of our salvation we then want to Obey Him.........not because we go to hell if we don't but because we love Him as our Heavenly Father and want to obey him.......not in our own strength either cos we then get help to to right.

Only God is eternal and give eternal life at His second coming, so no one burns forever only while there is still something to burn...........

Sodom and Gomorrah still burning? No? Neither will the wicked. The Fire is eternal but goes out when its work is done. Our God is not a torturer, His strange act will be to punish the unrepentant but not for eternity..............

At least that is my interpretation of Scripture.

Shalom. May God bless all here. brother2.

 

[mickiel]

.

However, His Gift of love has to be accepted and because of our salvation we then want to Obey Him.

I agree with much of what you expressed, but here is where I disagree. There are no conditions in Salvation that must be met by humans. Jesus met and fulfilled Gods only requirement, it is finished. Humanity does not have to " Accept that Christ died for them all", in their current condition, they are not even of the mindset of simple belief in God.

You believers have to get off of this Conditional Salvation trip you are on, its absolutely free, not based on anything but Christ.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

Eternal Punishing or Eternal Punishment?? Eternity or Eternal?? Forever or as long a life lasts?

Hell is indeed not a central truth of Scripture. The central truth is that God loves His Creation and wants everyone to be saved into His eternal kingdom.

However, His Gift of love has to be accepted and because of our salvation we then want to Obey Him.........not because we go to hell if we don't but because we love Him as our Heavenly Father and want to obey him.......not in our own strength either cos we then get help to to right.

Only God is eternal and give eternal life at His second coming, so no one burns forever only while there is still something to burn...........

Sodom and Gomorrah still burning? No? Neither will the wicked. The Fire is eternal but goes out when its work is done. Our God is not a torturer, His strange act will be to punish the unrepentant but not for eternity..............

At least that is my interpretation of Scripture.

Shalom. May God bless all here. brother2.

Good Post friend ! I agree ! :yes:

 

[mickiel]

I agree with much of what you expressed, but here is where I disagree. There are no conditions in Salvation that must be met by humans. Jesus met and fulfilled Gods only requirement, it is finished. Humanity does not have to " Accept that Christ died for them all", in their current condition, they are not even of the mindset of simple belief in God.

You believers have to get off of this Conditional Salvation trip you are on, its absolutely free, not based on anything but Christ.

Peace.

I am continually amazed at how so many believers in God, keep room for placing all kinds of conditions on Salvation, when it has none. They claim that humans " Have to do this", and have to believe that, and need to repent, and need to obey, and need to be baptised, and need to join a church, and need to pay tithes, and need to pray and study, and need a Pastor, and need this and that or Salvation is not yours.

All we NEED is Jesus, his Sacrifice and HIS Life!

And no human believer can take that away from an unbeliever, for ANY conceived reason, but yet they keep conceiving all these " Needs for free Salvation."

And I want to go into that.

Peace.