The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[URAVIP2ME]

This is news to me friend . I have never heard of a difference between Eternal Life and Immortality. I always believed it to be the one and same thing.
As far as I understand scripture Adam never had either. He was not created as an immortal soul - when God breathed into him the breath of life it was human life (not et.life) and he became a LIVING SOUL (not an eternal living soul). Adam would have become immortal /eternally living if he had obeyed God and chosen the right tree God had commanded him Gen.2v16,17. In Ezek.18v4 we read that the soul (a living person) that sins shall die.Job says that man is mortal. 1Cor.15v45 the first man Adam was made a living soul; the last man (Jesus) was made a quickening spirit. A different life in each from the start.
Trad.christianity believes in Adam's and all men's immortal soul which has no scriptural support. ETERNAL LIFE / IMMORTALITY is a GIFT from God - no man (apart from Jesus ) is born with it . The HS of God is required for that and is given only to the obedient Acts 5v32. Adam was not obedient and did not have eternal life or immortality.
This is my understanding of scripture.

Right. Adam was Not created with an immortal soul.
Angels were not created immortal either. Angels can sin.
Adam was not offered immortality [death proof]. Adam was offered eternal life or everlasting life. In other words, Adam's life was conditional. Adam could continue to live in healthy human perfection of mind and body as long as he breathed and ate, etc. and obeyed God.

Those that put on immortality [1st Cor 15vs53,54] are the ones called to heaven to rule with Jesus for a thousand years.

Earthly subjects of God's kingdom going back to Abel will have eternal or everlasting life as Jesus promised. All those making up the promise to Abraham that all families of the earth will be blessed, and all nations of the earth will be blessed [Gen 12v3; 22vs17,18] will be blessed with healthy human perfection of mind and body with endless life on earth as long as obedient. By the end of Jesus millennial rule over earth all living ones will have chosen to be obedient to God's way of ruling.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I agree with much of what you expressed, but here is where I disagree. There are no conditions in Salvation that must be met by humans. Jesus met and fulfilled Gods only requirement, it is finished. Humanity does not have to " Accept that Christ died for them all", in their current condition, they are not even of the mindset of simple belief in God.
Peace.

True Christ died for all. But 'all' do not accept him.
Isn't that why there is separation at Matthew 25v32 ?

'Now' God commands all to repent according to Acts 17vs30,31.

At 2 Peter 3v9b God desires all to repent rather than perish or be destroyed.
Destroyed as 2nd Thess 1v9 says with everlasting destruction.

Because of those of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6 not all are covered by Jesus ransom. That is why Matthew 20v28 says that Christ's ransom covers 'many' and not all. Christ died for all, but all will not accept him. Matt 25v40.

God will make sure first the good news of his Kingdom is preached world wide as Matt 24v14 says before the end of all badness on earth comes.
No one righteous will be harmed by Jesus words.
see: Isaiah 11v4; Rev 19vs11,14,15.
Jesus only ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Right. Adam was Not created with an immortal soul.
Angels were not created immortal either. Angels can sin.
Adam was not offered immortality [death proof]. Adam was offered eternal life or everlasting life. In other words, Adam's life was conditional. Adam could continue to live in healthy human perfection of mind and body as long as he breathed and ate, etc. and obeyed God.

Those that put on immortality [1st Cor 15vs53,54] are the ones called to heaven to rule with Jesus for a thousand years.

Earthly subjects of God's kingdom going back to Abel will have eternal or everlasting life as Jesus promised. All those making up the promise to Abraham that all families of the earth will be blessed, and all nations of the earth will be blessed [Gen 12v3; 22vs17,18] will be blessed with healthy human perfection of mind and body with endless life on earth as long as obedient. By the end of Jesus millennial rule over earth all living ones will have chosen to be obedient to God's way of ruling.

Bill O'Reilly says: "That makes Jesus sound like a filthy hippie... You Commies just want free Heaven for everyone! Well I worked for mine and I'll be damned if I share it with liberals and Socialists!"

 

[mickiel]

.

Because of those of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6 not all are covered by Jesus ransom. .
Jesus only ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

Well again I totally disagree, all humans are covered by Jesus ransom, 1Tim.2:6 is clear on that. Heb. 6 talks about it being impossible to renew certain people to God, well for men, it would be impossible, but the scriptures are very clear that with God, ALL things are possible, nothing is impossible for God, you just want the Salvation of certain humans to be impossible, because thats what you think and desire.

Peace.

 

[Zadok]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

The truth is that what many conceive to them as heaven would be hell to others and vice versa. On this forum I have discovered that for many to live in a society where families and the next generation was to be given sociological priority would be to them hell – whereas to other such a society would be heaven. The G-d that I believe exist has a place where everyone can go and be eternally happy. Just because we envision our heaven one way does not mean that all will “love” it there.

I think it is interesting that in most cases we want to “demonize” anyone that does not agree with what we want for our heaven. I personally think the real demons are those that want to force everyone to conform to their heaven – like it or I will make you suffer concept. Then think someone’s concept of such a G-d is also demonic.

Zadok

 

[mickiel]

The truth is that what many conceive to them as heaven would be hell to others and vice versa. On this forum I have discovered that for many to live in a society where families and the next generation was to be given sociological priority would be to them hell – whereas to other such a society would be heaven. The G-d that I believe exist has a place where everyone can go and be eternally happy. Just because we envision our heaven one way does not mean that all will “love” it there.

I think it is interesting that in most cases we want to “demonize” anyone that does not agree with what we want for our heaven. I personally think the real demons are those that want to force everyone to conform to their heaven – like it or I will make you suffer concept. Then think someone’s concept of such a G-d is also demonic.

Zadok

I understand and agree somewhat, yet I have considered this about God;

Heaven will be what God wants for us all, his Children. Not what we want it to be. God has lived in Eternity, he knows what it is like. In all things which I was former deceived in, then was able to come out of that deception to see it in a much better view, my understanding was improved. I think once we are living in Gods reality, or his world, we will see things in a far different manner, and he has the ability to improve our ability to handle such an incredible thing.

Heaven will be like none of us could imagine,. none of us. None of us will be the same anyway, we will change from deception, into a totally different life altogether, like being born again, which incindently is how the bible describes our comming experience, all things will be new to us, including our response to it. When I went from my mother taking care of me, to me growing of age and learning to take care of myself, it was a whole new experience. At first it was rough freedom, then that grew to the growing pains of manhood, and eventually leveled off into an enjoyable reality of self sufficent living, and eventually came to me helping my Mother to live out her life. And all that has been rewarding, as I teach my children to do the same.

God will have to " Teach us to handle eternity", and I believe he will. All about us will be new, including our Consciousness. A whole new incredible level of matruity, which willnot be infected by evil and the Darkness anymore. That mindset in humanity will not be like any emotions we experience now.

Peace.

 

[MurphtheSurf]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

Did you know that true Christianity doesn't teach eternal torture in a flaming Hell?

 

[mickiel]

Did you know that true Christianity doesn't teach eternal torture in a flaming Hell?

No I didnot, most of the Christians I am aware of teach and believe it. And who and what do you consider to be " True" Christianity?

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The belief in The Sick Concept of Eternal Hell suffering is beginning to meet its resistance, as God increases Knowledge on this planet. It will be intresting to see the manner in which those Christians who have been teaching it, will backtrack and try to bake a different cake. I am certainly going to have my eye on this, and see how they turn from it, in honesty, or in Pride.

Peace.

 

[shadze]

True Christ died for all. But 'all' do not accept him.
Isn't that why there is separation at Matthew 25v32 ?

...Who is the Savior of all men, especially those who are believers. 1 Tim 4:10



Because of those of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6 not all are covered by Jesus ransom. That is why Matthew 20v28 says that Christ's ransom covers 'many' and not all. Christ died for all, but all will not accept him. Matt 25v40.

...Who is the Savior of all men, especially those who are believers. 1 Tim 4:10

You are absolutely incorrect in your interpretation of scripture.Scripture is clear-Christ not only died for all but he is Savior of all Mankind. How can he be awarded this title if only he saved only a few lets look at it your way

..Who is the Savior of a few men or maybe has the capacity to save all but in reality doesn't, especially those who are believers. 1 Tim 4:10

The word many you assume means not all but that is not the case. Many is done
in numeric value for example what is the population of the world.Their are many people in the world or many people that make up the human race.You have added the all factor to convince others of your interpretation.

 

[mickiel]

Certain Atheist think I am talking to myself, something I don't mind doing anyway.

The views on the post are growing each day, and they think I am talking to myself, because I hold little value in talking to them.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Certain Atheist think I am talking to myself, something I don't mind doing anyway.

The views on the post are growing each day, and they think I am talking to myself, because I hold little value in talking to them.

Peace.

Although Atheist do not adhere to the eternal hell doctrine, they do adhere to the eternal dead doctrine, they think their life, and yours, is all there is to life, and they want you to adhere to that dead end.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Although Atheist do not adhere to the eternal hell doctrine, they do adhere to the eternal dead doctrine, they think their life, and yours, is all there is to life, and they want you to adhere to that dead end.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

The Atheist believes that we came from nothing, and eventually will return to nothing after we die, so its a belief in " The circle of Nothing!" Jesus came here to destroy that dead concept of Life. He, in fact, came that we might have Life!. John 10:10;" I came that they may have Life and have it abundantly.( or eternally)

Humanitys future is not to die and become a part of decaying dirt, our future, all of us, is to actually live forever, which I know frightens many. But I need to go into that " Inate fear of eternal life."

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The Atheist believes that we came from nothing, and eventually will return to nothing after we die, so its a belief in " The circle of Nothing!" Jesus came here to destroy that dead concept of Life. He, in fact, came that we might have Life!. John 10:10;" I came that they may have Life and have it abundantly.( or eternally)

Humanitys future is not to die and become a part of decaying dirt, our future, all of us, is to actually live forever, which I know frightens many. But I need to go into that " Inate fear of eternal life."

Peace.

I myself am a bit afraid of the concept of " Eternity", it just does not always seem real to me. But I understand that is because I am " A Natural Man', an ordinary human who has trouble understanding extra-ordinary concepts, Read 1Corinth. 2:14, it talks about the Natural man, or common human. My mind is just common Consciousness, and its easy to envision that consciousness as a temporary physical chemical existence, which is what Atheist do.

But I am not an Atheist,who would shortchange my vision to a dead end view, nor A Christian, who would ruin my intrest in Eternity by claiming there will exist eternal suffering, an insane concept in my view. I am just a man who would like to know his creator, who IS Eternity itself, which I think is a frightening aspect of God.

To just think that God has always lived, just bends my mind, I can't do it. I don't understand it, further to even think that we all are destined to Live forever, is a bit intimdating.

For our lives to go on, and on,

And on, and on,

And on, and never die, but always to be Conscious.

Man, thats heavy.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The Atheist believes that we created ourselves from nothing, and back to the nothing we will return. The Christian believes unbelievers will spend eternity in a pain amphlifier.

I believe all of created humanity is destined to live with God forever, and I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[MurphtheSurf]

No I didnot, most of the Christians I am aware of teach and believe it. And who and what do you consider to be " True" Christianity?

Peace.

Does

the Bible indicate that the soul survives the death of the body?​

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Ezek. 18:4: “The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.” (*“Soul,” KJ, Dy, RS, NE, Kx; “the man,” JB; “the person,” TEV.)​

Does​

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the Bible indicate whether the dead experience pain?​

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Eccl. 9:5, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,* the place to which you are going.” (If they are conscious of nothing, they obviously feel no pain.) (*“Sheol,” AS, RS, NE, JB; “the grave,” KJ, Kx; “hell,” Dy; “the world of the dead,” TEV.)​

Why​

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is there confusion as to what the Bible says about hell?​

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“Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.”—The Encyclopedia Americana (1942), Vol. XIV, p. 81.
Translators have allowed their personal beliefs to color their work instead of being consistent in their rendering of the original-language words. For example: (1) The King James Version rendered she’ohl′ as “hell,” “the grave,” and “the pit”; hai′des is therein rendered both “hell” and “grave”; ge′en·na is also translated “hell.” ​

What​

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is the ‘fiery Gehenna’ to which Jesus referred?​

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Reference to Gehenna appears 12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Five times it is directly associated with fire. Translators have rendered the Greek expression ge′en·nan tou py·ros′ as “hell fire” (KJ, Dy), “fires of hell” (NE), “fiery pit” (AT), and “fires of Gehenna” (NAB).
Historical​

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background: The Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) was outside the walls of Jerusalem. For a time it was the site of idolatrous worship, including child sacrifice. In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna. Thus, at Matthew 5:29, 30, Jesus spoke of the casting of one’s “whole body” into Gehenna. If the body fell into the constantly burning fire it was consumed, but if it landed on a ledge of the deep ravine its putrefying flesh became infested with the ever-present worms, or maggots. (Mark 9:47, 48) Living humans were not pitched into Gehenna; so it was not a place of conscious torment.​

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Yes these are all paste jobs, and quite lengthy, but it describes in some small way about what "Hell" is and isn't. As for which Christian church holds the true Christian, consider this;
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How​

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can a person know which religion is right?​

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(1) On what are its teachings based? Are they from God, or are they largely from men? (2 Tim. 3:16; Mark 7:7) Ask, for example: Where does the Bible teach that God is a Trinity? Where does it say that the human soul is immortal?
(2)​

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Consider whether it is making known the name of God. Jesus said in prayer to God: “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world.” (John 17:6) He declared: “It is the Heavenly Father your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Matt. 4:10) Has your religion taught you that ‘it is the Father you must worship’? Have you come to know the Person identified by that name—his purposes, his activities, his qualities—so that you feel you can confidently draw close to him?​

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(3)​

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Is true faith in Jesus Christ being demonstrated? This involves appreciation of the value of the sacrifice of Jesus’ human life and of his position today as heavenly King. (John 3:36; Ps. 2:6-8) Such appreciation is shown by obeying Jesus—sharing personally and zealously in the work that he assigned to his followers. True religion has such faith that is accompanied by works.—Jas. 2:26.​

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(4)​

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Is it largely ritualistic, a formality, or is it a way of life? God strongly disapproves of religion that is merely a formalism. (Isa. 1:15-17) True religion upholds the Bible’s standard of morality and clean speech instead of weakly going along with popular trends. (1 Cor. 5:9-13; Eph. 5:3-5) Its members reflect the fruits of God’s spirit in their lives. (Gal. 5:22, 23) So, those who adhere to true worship can be identified because they sincerely endeavor to apply Bible standards in their lives not only at their places of meeting but in their family life, at their secular work, in school, and in recreation.​

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(5)​

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Do its members truly love one another? Jesus said: “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:35) Such love reaches across racial, social, and national boundaries, drawing people together in genuine brotherhood. So strong is this love that it sets them apart as being truly different. When the nations go to war, who have enough love for their Christian brothers in other lands that they refuse to take up arms and kill them? That is what early Christians did.​

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(6)​

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Is it truly separate from the world? Jesus said that his true followers would be “no part of the world.” (John 15:19) To worship God in a manner that he approves requires that we keep ourselves “without spot from the world.” (Jas. 1:27) Can that be said of those whose clergy and other members are involved in politics, or whose lives are largely built around materialistic and fleshly desires?—1 John 2:15-17.​

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(7)​

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Are its members active witnesses concerning God’s Kingdom? Jesus foretold: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matt. 24:14) What religion is really proclaiming God’s Kingdom as the hope of mankind instead of encouraging people to look to human rulership to solve their problems? Has your religion equipped you to share in this activity, and to do it from house to house as Jesus taught his apostles to do?—Matt. 10:7, 11-13; Acts 5:42; 20:20.​

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[mickiel]

I kind of like that post Murph.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The Atheist believes that we created ourselves from nothing, and back to the nothing we will return. The Christian believes unbelievers will spend eternity in a pain amphlifier.

I believe all of created humanity is destined to live with God forever, and I want to go into that.

Peace.

I am happy that what God says, means more than what men say.

This is why we all will be saved.

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am happy that what God says, means more than what men say.
This is why we all will be saved.
Peace.

Not quite 'all' according to Scripture.
First of all, those alive at the time of Jesus glory, placed at his left hand of DIS-favor, so to speak, receive the everlasting punishment of everlasting destruction. Matthew 25v46; 2nd Thess 1v9.
They are those of Psalm 92v7 that are destroyed forever, which include those of Matthew 13v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6.

Isn't that why Matthew 20v28 says 'MANY' and Not all are saved by Jesus ransom?______

 

[Muffled]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering is a " Mental Handicap in Religion, and in Christianity", they can't get by the natural fear involved in it. They are afraid NOT to believe in it, paranoid of the mere suggestion that they could live their lives trying to please God, and yet still " Not Make It", and such a possibility strikes fear within them.

And let me show you in the comming days, why this whole mess is sick.

Peace.

I am a Christian and have no fear of Hell. I am sure tht I will not go there. However it is like Nebraskans saying about Kansas that friends won't let friends go there.
Christians recognize that there is punsihment for unforgiven sin and that final punishment could be Hell, so we warn people not to go there.