The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[mickiel]

I 100% agree with what you have said here. With that being said, how do we rid oneself of that foolishness in your view?

Well we start by emptying the garbage, just throw it away. Its a " Relationship", and although it may get rough, I think we know how to end relationships. It may take some time, but once you set your consciousness to end a relationship, from then on you have to think in terms of " No longer wanting this to be a part of you."

This hell belief has been simular to a " Conditioning of the human mind", like a seduction of our beliefs. It has seduced us, through a powerful desire like religion and God. When God and religion are used to " Get a point across", thats a powerful seduction, -- it then " Means something to us."

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[Akshara Dasa]

Well we start by emptying the garbage, just throw it away. Its a " Relationship", and although it may get rough, I think we know how to end relationships. It may take some time, but once you set your consciousness to end a relationship, from then on you have to think in terms of " No longer wanting this to be a part of you."

This hell belief has been simular to a " Conditioning of the human mind", like a seduction of our beliefs. It has seduced us, through a powerful desire like religion and God. When God and religion are used to " Get a point across", thats a powerful seduction, -- it then " Means something to us."

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

Outstanding response! Frubals!

I agree with you on this post. It is a conditioning of the human mind. But its different from other forms of conditioning, its deeper because fear is involved. But with gentle determination one can get threw it!

EDIT: cant give out frubals for 24 hours. when I get them back ill give you some

 

[mickiel]

We all search for and need some kind of meaning in life, IF you have not given up! But our Consciousness is something we need to seriously protect as best we can. The human Consciousness is easily influenced, because part of its design is to absorb knowledge. Learning is not a part of Consciousness, but it can influence our Consciousness, we learn by instinct. Consciousness is the " Engine of our Reality", it drives itself, but our emotional content and learning experiences are along for the ride. The Consciousness will just take it with you.

So we need no dead weight.

Belief in eternal hell suffering is just dead weight, a mark on the mind, a handicap, which mask itself with things it must convince your Consciousness is important.

And let me get into that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Why would a God of all power, need to use " Threats of Punishment" to get his point accross to unsuspecting humans? Thats all too human, and God certainly is not a human. WE use punishment as a means to end behavior we do not accept, or to at least try to regulate behavior. God IS the beginning and the End of human behavior, he has no need to depend on threats of punishment to determine outcome in anyones life! That is human pathology, so the next step in ridding yourself of the burden of hell, is to understand how God really is. After all, the Christians who support this view, they are depending on God to back up their interpitation.

So lets face this now, if you are to rid yourself of this mental handicap, you need to look into how God really thinks about it. They are using God against you! They are using God to support this hellish doctrine of devils, to make you insecure about your future, IF you do not conform!

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[Thief]

Why would a God of all power, need to use " Threats of Punishment" to get his point accross to unsuspecting humans? Thats all too human, and God certainly is not a human. WE use punishment as a means to end behavior we do not accept, or to at least try to regulate behavior. God IS the beginning and the End of human behavior, he has no need to depend on threats of punishment to determine outcome in anyones life! That is human pathology, so the next step in ridding yourself of the burden of hell, is to understand how God really is. After all, the Christians who support this view, they are depending on God to back up their interpitation.

So lets face this now, if you are to rid yourself of this mental handicap, you need to look into how God really thinks about it. They are using God against you! They are using God to support this hellish doctrine of devils, to make you insecure about your future, IF you do not conform!

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

So it's conformity that you want to avoid?
And perhaps heaven has no conformity?

The lack of conformity could be called......chaos.

I suspect you haven't really decided on...'terms'.
You deny there is a hell.
That leaves only heaven.....really?
You think your gong to heaven by...default?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So it's conformity that you want to avoid?
And perhaps heaven has no conformity?
The lack of conformity could be called......chaos.
I suspect you haven't really decided on...'terms'.
You deny there is a hell.
That leaves only heaven.....really?
You think your gong to heaven by...default?

Why do you say that leaves only heaven?
What about the humble meek that inherit not heaven, but inherit earth?
[Psalm 37vs11,19,38; Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30; Matthew 5v5]

Jesus we know did not deny hell but the Biblical hell is the common grave of mankind that Jesus was in until God resurrected him [Acts 2vs27,31,32].
[compare: Ecc 9v5 with Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; John 11vs11-14]
Jesus used 'fire' as a symbol of destruction by using Gehenna as a reference.
Gehenna [hellfire] was a burning garbage dump were things were destroyed and Not kept burning forever. That is why Psalm [92v7] can say the wicked will be destroyed or annihilated forever.

According to Rev [20vs13,14] what happens when all in hell [gravedom] are delivered up? Isn't emptied-out, vacant, void of people hell then to die a second or symbolic death of no returning?

 

[mickiel]

You think your gong to heaven by...default?

I think were all going by " Grace."

Peace.

 

[Thief]

I think were all going by " Grace."

Peace.

By 'grace'...do you mean...'allowance'?

Or the skill that you might have....to come and go as you please?

 

[mickiel]

By 'grace'...do you mean...'allowance'?

Or the skill that you might have....to come and go as you please?

By grace I mean totally excused and pardoned. It means unmerited favor, that God has our lives covered no matter what we have done.

Peace.

 

[Thief]

By grace I mean totally excused and pardoned. It means unmerited favor, that God has our lives covered no matter what we have done.

Peace.

Then heaven allows all to enter?
Back to chaos we go.
And would heaven be any different than this life?
Murderers, liars,....an occasional... thief?

There are many who make a practice of hatred.
There are as many who believe in war.

Where do you draw the line?
How about...
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

Oh...that's right....there's that item of consequence...again.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

We all search for and need some kind of meaning in life, IF you have not given up! But our Consciousness is something we need to seriously protect as best we can. The human Consciousness is easily influenced, because part of its design is to absorb knowledge. Learning is not a part of Consciousness, but it can influence our Consciousness, we learn by instinct. Consciousness is the " Engine of our Reality", it drives itself, but our emotional content and learning experiences are along for the ride. The Consciousness will just take it with you.
Peace.

Do we really learn by instinct as in the animal kingdom or rather by our conscience being influenced by good or bad?
At Romans [2vs14,15] many not under Biblical law still followed principles of the law but not by animal instinct. A built in conscience can 'accuse' or 'excuse'. In other words, one's conscience can be hardened or calloused like flesh seared by a branding iron to excuse wrongdoing.

Many people have found 'meaning' or 'purpose' in life but only the Bible gives us lasting 'hope'. The world teaches, what to think, how to think, but only the Bible teaches how to serve God and gives us hope either in a resurrection to heaven or on earth, or the hope of being one of the living people of Matthew [25v32] that will continue to remain alive and keep on living right into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth when Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

 

[idea]

wow - thread started 06-21-2008, 249 pages, and still going - with the OP still responding! impressive.

Why would a God of all power, need to use " Threats of Punishment" to get his point accross to unsuspecting humans? Thats all too human, and God certainly is not a human.

Who says God is not human?
wrote this earlier today - What is entailed in being an heir of Christ - by Jamie Turner - Helium

Looks pretty clear to me that God is human... perfect yes, but a flesh and bone person. I get your point though - God uses love, not fear...

(New Testament | 2 Timothy 1:7)
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

WE use punishment as a means to end behavior we do not accept, or to at least try to regulate behavior. God IS the beginning and the End of human behavior, ...

Is He? I believe we act because we have free will, that we are not God's robots...
God is cleaning up a mess He did not make - He is not responsible for our sinful nature.
see: Did God create out of nothing - by Jamie Turner - Helium

cheers!
jamie.

 

[mickiel]

Is He? I believe we act because we have free will, that we are not God's robots...
God is cleaning up a mess He did not make - He is not responsible for our sinful nature.
see: Did God create out of nothing - by Jamie Turner - Helium

cheers!
jamie.

I do not believe in free will, and consider it to be an illusion. And I disagree that God didnot " Make this mess", he most certainly did, he is the author of humanity, and when he created a tree of knowledge of good and evil, he introduced this world to the mess.

Peace.

 

[idea]

I do not believe in free will, and consider it to be an illusion. And I disagree that God didnot " Make this mess", he most certainly did, he is the author of humanity, and when he created a tree of knowledge of good and evil, he introduced this world to the mess.

Peace.

I celebrate the tree of knowledge - for without it we would not understand what good and evil were. Good is a relative term, relative terms are defined by their opposites.

Is this apple good? Good relative to what? you can't say if it is good or bad unless you take it in context - good to eat yes, good to have thrown at your eyeball? no..

Is this poison good? Good to eat? no, Good for metallurgical separations? yes.

It's all relative - you have to have opposition - have to have something to compare it to, or neither good nor evil exists.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
author of humanity?

Does the bible teach that God made everything? I do not think that it does.
John 1:
1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Does not say God and Jesus were alone, nor does it say they created everything -
“That was made” – IF it was made, He made it. However, some things are not made…


what does "made" mean? If I make a cake - that does not mean I made it out of nothing.


God did not create everything. God did not create Himself. God did not create evil. He is all powerful – what He is surrounded by He can control, but there is no need that He created it from nothing… He is forming, organizing, reforming… If He created it there would be no need for reform. No evil, no lost souls.

Isaiah 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

The potter did not make the clay – he only forms what already exists…

Does it say God created man from nothing? It does not –
Gen 2:
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Formed – is different than created from nothingness – formed, organized, changed what was already there… then “breathed” life into Adam, not created, breathed it in, placed it in….


Our birth was not our beginning…
Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

We existed before the foundation of the world.
Eph 1: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Job 38: 4 Where wast thou…
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

We are sons and daughters of God –
Psa 82: 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

we were there – we shouted for joy.

Ecc 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

“return” means coming to a state that we have previously been to – not “come” as if it were our first experience, but “return”

Zech 12:1 …the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

He “formed” our spirit before He placed us here on Earth. We call him our “Heavenly” Father because He is literally the father of our spirit… spirit not created from nothingness, formed out of intelligences that God found Himself surrounded by.

 

[Thief]

I do not believe in free will, and consider it to be an illusion. And I disagree that God didnot " Make this mess", he most certainly did, he is the author of humanity, and when he created a tree of knowledge of good and evil, he introduced this world to the mess.

Peace.

So it's all God's fault?

 

[mickiel]

So it's all God's fault?

Its all Gods plan.

Peace.

 

[idea]

Its all Gods plan.

Peace.

Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, Lev. 19:18

tell me, how is a robot able to love?

 

[Thief]

Its all Gods plan.

Peace.

You fit into the plan?
What part do you play?

 

[mickiel]

Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, Lev. 19:18

tell me, how is a robot able to love?

The same way Angels, Gods robots, are able to Love.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

You fit into the plan?
What part do you play?

Well all fit into the plan.

And my part in it is meaningless.
Peace.