The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[Danmac]

Didn't Jesus friend Lazarus and the others resurrected by Jesus and the apostles die a second time?

Yes but you and I didn't.

 

[it's_sam]

mickiel taking time to help people understand your point is the foundation for them understanding your thought. You ended this argument on the grounds you refuse to repeat or "re-edit" your answers in a way for the other side of this conversation to understand and anything you built to find a point in this whole thread has just unraveled. We can all see your determined just don't have expectations of how people are sposed to respond.

 

[it's_sam]

I think what mickiel has been trying to say is that scripture can be used to support or despose of his theory

Thats the elimination of any hell belief in my view, and a wonderful prophecy showing God is caring and loving. Two other things which cancel out hell.

It's is true on both sides of this idea of hell that God has ultimate power, taking away one thing like gravity would undo all of mankind but he wants the best for us all. Similair to the flood he said never again, and he meant that toward the all people un-bias. responding to a person seeking a understanding of endless patience and understanding with "your view is twisted" is only showing that people you don't like will have no place in your house, regardless if they are loved by many others you want them to burn. If this is not you then i apoligize but that is infact how it looks, and i agree with mickiel that our father is up to something and its going to be beautifull not fiery and filled with fear. Does fire and filled with fear sound like God to you?

 

[Thief]

So....no one wants to go to hell....of course not.

So.........
Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.

This would be the line drawn.

Where you end up standing, is determined by who was standing over you
when you surrendered you last breath.

If the 'nice' angels are there to gather you up, fine....no problem.
If not, you will be lead away by one of those 'other' angels.

And it will be done unto you as you did unto others.

Want to say ...'nay'?

 

[mickiel]

I think what mickiel has been trying to say is that scripture can be used to support or despose of his theory It's is true on both sides of this idea of hell that God has ultimate power, taking away one thing like gravity would undo all of mankind but he wants the best for us all. Similair to the flood he said never again, and he meant that toward the all people un-bias. responding to a person seeking a understanding of endless patience and understanding with "your view is twisted" is only showing that people you don't like will have no place in your house, regardless if they are loved by many others you want them to burn. If this is not you then i apoligize but that is infact how it looks, and i agree with mickiel that our father is up to something and its going to be beautifull not fiery and filled with fear. Does fire and filled with fear sound like God to you?

Well these are good points, God is " Up to something." I mean it " Seems like for now he's doing nothing", and somehow thats going to tie in to our understanding later, its just hard to get to it now. I think what hes up to will end in a bueatiful, Loving and graceful happy cresendo that will benefit us all.

Those who believe in hell see it differently. Here we must suffer as humans all of our lives in one way or another, then die and go to a place of eternal misery created by God who created us to suffer anyway. In effect, live in a type of hell, then die and go to a worser hell and be there for endless time. What these misguided believers fail to consider, is what kind of being that would really make God out to be. Now I can understand misguided believers being so unmerciful, but I just cannot see God being that way. I cannot see a God who has the Power to save all, but instead of using it, he leaves it up to them to condemn themselves.

Peace.

 

[it's_sam]

I see it as God has no vendetta toward us, he forgives all sin. If someone has created a vandetta but can't rid themselves of that person they would turn to God to have that person rid of their lives. Once this is done do you really believe they whent to a place of eternal suffering or it just looks that way to the person with a vandetta untill they are able to "get over" their problem. justice is a human trait, revenge is a human trait, a viscous slap to the human race would be a trait of humans as well. As goes the story of lucifer when God didnt like what he saw he didn't waste time casting satan out, infact it was perty much instant. Do you see hell as something needed by God or by humans? before humans lucifer was God's best bud, there was no hell to hear see or speak of.

 

[mickiel]

I see it as God has no vendetta toward us, he forgives all sin. .

Well yes thats right, God is not " Out to get us sinners!" That mentality helps feed into hell fire believers. God is against sin I would imagine from my studies, but not against the sinner themselves. The wrath of God is his reaction to sin, not his treatment of sinners. Its a definte mental handicap to feel God is " After you or against you." And it can be crippling in your Spirit.

Also I do not believe in this " Lucifer Characther", nor do I believe he was Gods " Best buddy." There is no such being as Lucifer, I think hes a myth, which people confuse to be the Devil. And Satan was never Gods best buddy, not according to mu study of scripture, he was created evil from his conception, and Christ called him a Murderer from his beginning, meaning he was created to be that.

Peace.

 

[it's_sam]

Mickiel if you read passages concerning the early remarks of lucifer he was sent out to walk the earth before he was cast out. Also there was scripture he wasnt an arch-angel but he was highest of the angels. But all of this is only concerning this few sides of a firm God as ruler of all and he resides under no other name. I personaly feel he wants no name at all. Like any of us would see him and say so... who are you again? From what we hear IF you can even see after veiwing his pressence there is little not to know. ill look up some of these scriptures for you and post them.

 

[mickiel]

. ill look up some of these scriptures for you and post them.

I'll look at them with intrest.

Peace.

 

[it's_sam]

Well perty much the whole book of Job It shows in the first verse he holds no animosity toward him, but also alot happened after that wich God wasnt happy with.
Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came
with them.
7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From
roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on
earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied.
10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have
blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the
land.
11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your
face."
12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the
man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

 

[mickiel]

Well perty much the whole book of Job It shows in the first verse he holds no animosity toward him, but also alot happened after that wich God wasnt happy with.
Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came
with them.
7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From
roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on
earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied.
10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have
blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the
land.
11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your
face."
12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the
man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

I was expecting biblical references to " Lucifer", not Satan. Please show me the Lucifer verses.

Peace.

 

[it's_sam]

Would they not be of the same mind?

 

[it's_sam]

i just chose lucifer i guess because i dont like making the asociation of S's and serpents for obvious reasons

 

[mickiel]

Mickiel if you read passages concerning the early remarks of lucifer he was sent out to walk the earth before he was cast out. Also there was scripture he wasnt an arch-angel but he was highest of the angels.

ill look up some of these scriptures for you and post them.

Well you claimed there are passages to read about Lucifer, I myself disagree with that, there are no scriptures on Lucifer, because hes a myth. There are one or two translations of bibles that mention him once, and even that was in serious error.

Peace.

 

[logician]

Well you claimed there are passages to read about Lucifer, I myself disagree with that, there are no scriptures on Lucifer, because hes a myth. There are one or two translations of bibles that mention him once, and even that was in serious error.

Peace.

It is strange how people can assume so much from so little.

 

[mickiel]

It is strange how people can assume so much from so little.

Well thats a true statement, espically where religion is concerned. And there are whole religions that have been organized off of certain assumptions. Such as " The keeping of the Sabbath", and how the bible really teachs that Sabbath keeping has been done away with. But there are believers in it who cannot give it up, and they created whole religions from it; Such as Seven Day Adventist.

Peace.

 

[Thief]

Did someone mention Job?
I did a topic on him some time back.....from that thread...The Book of Job....
Quoting myself....

Really.
What I do see I posted in #4.
There's no trial going on.
The Sons of God did gather, and with them came the Devil....as if He might hold an equal status.
The Devil is then questioned, and then insulted by the comparison God made between the Devil and Job.
God is slighting the Devil and using Job to do so.
The Devil objects, and implies the comparison is jaded, as God is blessing and protecting His servant.


God then allows the Devil any manner of indiscretion against Job.
But this is not a test.

God knows His servant Job.
In good times and bad, you are who you are.

The point I was making in post#4, is the allowance made by God, that a man could be a target.

Bear in mind, God may have allowed the Devil any manner of indiscretion....
but action on the Devil's part was not an action of obedience.

The Devil could have conceded, the insult....and never raised his hand against Job. It was not required of the Devil to do any harm.
That the Devil did do harm speaks of the Devil's character....not Job's.

That Job remained steadfast toward God, speaks of Job...not God.

That God will stand back, and let bad things happen to you...
does speak of God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I was expecting biblical references to " Lucifer", not Satan. Please show me the Lucifer verses.
Peace.

KJV uses Lucifer at Isaiah 14v12. Kind of sounds like sulfer doesn't it?

Because 'Satan' was a covering cherub [overseer] in Eden that is one reason why the verses at Ezekiel 28 vs13-19 apply to Satan/Lucifer.

 

[mickiel]

KJV uses Lucifer at Isaiah 14v12. Kind of sounds like sulfer doesn't it?

Because 'Satan' was a covering cherub [overseer] in Eden that is one reason why the verses at Ezekiel 28 vs13-19 apply to Satan/Lucifer.

Well the verse in Isaiah 14:12 used a Hebrew word, " Helel", which just means Shinning one. This person is a man, not some angel. In vs. 16 he is called a man, vs. 10 shows he is a man, he " Became a weak man as well. This is not Satan. He was a man who was once great, or a shinning star on earth.

The person in Ezek. 28 is not Satan, vs.2 plainly says that, " You are a man and not God. vs.9 repeats this again;" Although you are a man and not God!"

I mean it seems Academic to me.

Peace.

 

[Webbster101]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

Where do you find evidence to show that Christians have ruined Gods reputation?
Where did you come up with your standards for what your "god" should be ?