I don't think humans have done too badly all things considering. I think we are as good as it gets so we have to make the best of it.
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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.
- Thread starter mickiel
- Start date
I don't think humans have done too badly all things considering. I think we are as good as it gets so we have to make the best of it.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
wow, I didnt think it would give out an erronious impression, It is not on my conscienceness, I dont care if it exists or not, I just agree with God, even if I am oblivious to something he decides, and I dont have to understand everything he decides that was why I questioned where you were with him in trust. the bottom line to what I was saying, is would you agree totally with God if you were showed undoubtedly, that yes God has hell for people? part of his rath.
the subject seems interesting, and yes their is some people who have it in their conscience with some kind of fear, and othrs in a way of not believing in it. I personally dont agree with someone trying to have another fear in hell, just to convince him to love God, and it is written that God doesnt want that either.
as I loved reading your answers, it gives the impression that you believe in reincarnation and feel people better themselves everytime they come. please correct me if I am wrong.
and I also get the impression that your saying the coming of Jesus gave us the freedom of free will mixed with God accepting us and how we want it. that would make a new quote.
rath on the sin not the sinner, so their free will to sin is not personal?
thank you for answering the questions, as I learn more how to use the forum I will be able to answer and make it look like you did going by quotes.
be safe
the subject seems interesting, and yes their is some people who have it in their conscience with some kind of fear, and othrs in a way of not believing in it. I personally dont agree with someone trying to have another fear in hell, just to convince him to love God, and it is written that God doesnt want that either.
as I loved reading your answers, it gives the impression that you believe in reincarnation and feel people better themselves everytime they come. please correct me if I am wrong.
and I also get the impression that your saying the coming of Jesus gave us the freedom of free will mixed with God accepting us and how we want it. that would make a new quote.
rath on the sin not the sinner, so their free will to sin is not personal?
thank you for answering the questions, as I learn more how to use the forum I will be able to answer and make it look like you did going by quotes.
be safe
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Yes you are wrong, I do not believe in reincarnation, how you saw that in anything I stated, is beyond me. I believe in the bible and the Salvation for all that it speaks of. God does not desire hell for people who reject him. So to ask;" Well what if he did, would I accept it", is irrelevant. Job 23:13;" God is unique and who can turn him? What his soul desires, THAT he does." Simple enough, its saying that God will do and get everything he desires. Well, what does he desire? 1Tim.2:3-4;" This is GOOD and ACCEPTABLE in the " Sight of God', who DESIRES that ALL men be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
THATS what God desires, THATS what he will get. Now granted,certain believers in God may not desire that, they desire that God put unbelievers in some hell. But salvation is not based on believers in God and how they interpit scripture, its based on God. Read vs.6;" Christ gave himself a ransom for ALL! All of us are included, so why create senerios in your head that includes some hell pain amphlifier pit, which would limit salvation?
Peace.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
You're just really having difficulty about judgment calls...aren't you?
Everybody gets a ticket to heaven.
Yeah right.
Would be nice....but you know there are nay sayers.
Peace? really?
You post 'peace' every time you participate.
How will there be peace without judgment calls?
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do with. There is no hell for God to have anything to I think everyone is forgiven no matter what, that is the sheer scope and power of Jesus sacrifice. Those who do not change or repent in this life, will be given that in the next .
quoting you Mickiel
please elaborate, the next what
am I to understand that on judgement , it be that everyone by Gods will, will repent and be saved, than our free will, will cease to exist and will no longer be our free will, would that include satan? would that include the person that took a family members kidneys to sell and left her on ice to die, he will be turned by Gods will and forgiven even if his heart is still like that. ahhh I agree with God if that is so.
on a personal note I pray that satan repents and asks Abbas forgiveness
the question where you stand firm in not answering and calling it irrelevent, says that understanding their is no hell, is the only thing you will agree with. and maybe you wont agree with God if you find out their will be an eternal hell.
Mickiel you sound like an intelligent loving person, and you sound loved by God
may you find yourself in a blessed position
quoting you Mickiel
please elaborate, the next what
am I to understand that on judgement , it be that everyone by Gods will, will repent and be saved, than our free will, will cease to exist and will no longer be our free will, would that include satan? would that include the person that took a family members kidneys to sell and left her on ice to die, he will be turned by Gods will and forgiven even if his heart is still like that. ahhh I agree with God if that is so.
on a personal note I pray that satan repents and asks Abbas forgiveness
the question where you stand firm in not answering and calling it irrelevent, says that understanding their is no hell, is the only thing you will agree with. and maybe you wont agree with God if you find out their will be an eternal hell.
Mickiel you sound like an intelligent loving person, and you sound loved by God
may you find yourself in a blessed position
mickiel
Well-Known Member
......and as we can read at Matt 20v28 that Jesus ransom covers 'many' and not all. True, God desires all to be saved, but all do not choose to obey God.
Those that have committed the unforgivable sin [Matt 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6] are Not part of the 'many' that will be saved.
Jesus died for all, but all that have the opportunity do not follow Jesus.
-Hebrews 10v26.
Wasn't Jesus clear in Matthew chapter seven to be on the narrow path because the broad [or bad] path leads to destruction?
Destruction such as those of Psalm 92v7?
Is Jesus slaying the saved at Isaiah 11v4? or Rev 19vs11,14,15?
What happens to the goat-like people of Matthew chapter 25?
They experience the 'everlasting destruction' of 2nd Thess 1v9
Satan and his demons are not saved. Adam and Eve are not saved.
God desired that Satan and Adam would not disobey him but they did choose to disobey because they were created free moral agents with the ability to choose to obey or not. Disobedience meant that their life became eternal death. Once Jesus destroys Satan [Heb 2v14b] Satan will never live again.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Many are called....few are chosen.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Well thats something I believe in, many are called by God, ( they don't call themselves, but the Christian concept of " Come to Jesus" teachs that we can call ourselves) few are chosen by God-- BY God ( again the Christian concept of give your life to Christ, protends that we choose ourselves). So the calling and Choosing is a God perogitive, its something God does, and the human cannot do it by their choice inititive.
The calling of God is " A matter of Time", meaning there is a distinct time that he will call an individual. I believe eventually he will call everyone, no one will be left out. Since we see droves of humans who have lived and died without being called or Chosen, then today must not be the only day of salvation. I believe the vast majority of humans will be called and chosen AFTER the first ressurection, in the next life where their Salvation is being preserved in Heaven.
This gives them the much better opportunity for their Salvation, and I think God is more interested in their Salvation than some Christians are.
Salvation must be viewed as " Giving the people their best atmosphere for their free inheritence." Those called and Chosen in this life, are simply the " Firstfruits of a soon to come massive calling and harvest of the world."
Peace.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
It's good to be so positive.
But choosing is an action that implies a few will be allowed to follow...
many will be left behind.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Well Jesus said in John 6:37 that all who the Father gives him, he will not cast them out. In vs.39 he further states that of all the humans given to him that he will " Loose NONE of them!" The question then needs to be asked," Well how many has the Father given Christ?"
Continuing in the bible answering the bible, John 17:2, again Jesus speaking;" Even as thou gavest him " Authority over all of mankind that TO ALL whom thou has given, he may GIVE eternal Life!" Jesus has authority over all of us, and will save all of us.
There will be no one left behind.
Peace.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
You actually quote as you should.
But then fail to see the line drawn.
Not 'all'....... are 'given'.
Most people are not given to the Spirit.
Most people fail.
That any one person has authority over 'all'....
is not to say 'all' have obedience...or forgiveness....or grace...
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Well I know that we view scripture and Salvation differently, and I understand and respect that. Thats just how it is, we all willnot see things in the same vein. I tend to see Salvation as being for the whole world. In example, John 3:16, I would focus on the first part of verse;" For God so loved THE WORLD!" And that catches and molds my view of Salvation, its for the World that God loves, all of us.
You, in turn , would perhaps focus on;" That whoever believes shall not perish." And focus on Salvation being about belief. I understand that kind of vision. I see God loving the World, as a garentee of the worlds Salvation, because Gods Love does not loose people.
Were just different.
Peace.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Why not start a crusade and have it closed yourself.
Show your objection to it, by never posting on it again yourself.
Peace.
Danmac
Well-Known Member
IMO you are no longer trying to convince others of your "opinion", you are trying to convince yourself.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
I find it quite strange that people would have mercy on a thread that they think is in misery, and they would want it closed, to stop the misery. And yet wouldnot extend that same mercy toward humans who are suffering in some hell. Rather than stop that misery, they would want it to continue on forever.
Really arcane.
Peace.