The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[mickiel]

So it is okay because he is stronger than you. So hitler was justified in what he did because he had more power than the average peasant? This is a pretty hideous outlook I must say.
.

In my view, this is " Exactly" one of the reasons why God is justified in all that he does. There is no one more powerful than he, no one can stop him, hes going to get everything he wants, he cannot be bargained with, he cannot be manipulated, he has no oppisition. We have no choice but to serve him. There are no other choices, no other ways- thats illusion.

Now, unlike Hitler, God is not evil. When the Righteous rule the people rejoice.

But in my view, God is he who MUST be obeyed, and there has NEVER been any other way, nor ever will be any other way.Heaven is NOT a democracy, and God is NOT asking for opinons. Not the God I understand.

Peace.

 

[Thief]

Why is the idea of oblivion poison? The idea that only the so called 'saved' will inhabit heaven is poison. In theory the worst of people could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven, whilst good unbelievers go to hell, there is nothing loving or joyful about that and I doubt it has any basis in fact.

Mickiel is tired of talking to me.

But no doubt his answer won't help.

A thief, hanging alongside the Carpenter did ask....
'remember me when you enter your kingdom'

The response...'this day you walk with Me in paradise.'

If a man who steals...a man that can't be trusted when you aren't looking...
can find his way into heaven during his last hour...

then a great many other thieves can find their way in.

The question should be...what can be forgiven?
Who should I allow at my back, as he follows me?

Would I ask a repent thief? someone who can lay down his practice?
Or someone who has denied me?

 

[Blackdog22]

In my view, this is " Exactly" one of the reasons why God is justified in all that he does. There is no one more powerful than he, no one can stop him, hes going to get everything he wants, he cannot be bargained with, he cannot be manipulated, he has no oppisition. We have no choice but to serve him. There are no other choices, no other ways- thats illusion.

Now, unlike Hitler, God is not evil. When the Righteous rule the people rejoice.

But in my view, God is he who MUST be obeyed, and there has NEVER been any other way, nor ever will be any other way.Heaven is NOT a democracy, and God is NOT asking for opinons. Not the God I understand.

Peace.

If this is true then there truly is no choice. In the end we will serve him or cease to exist. Without knowing 100% that the God your thinking of exists. Why put yourself in such a place where you have no freedom or choice? Or is it a feeling that suits the person you are?

 

[mickiel]

If this is true then there truly is no choice. In the end we will serve him or cease to exist. Without knowing 100% that the God your thinking of exists. Why put yourself in such a place where you have no freedom or choice? Or is it a feeling that suits the person you are?

No, you still have part of it incorrect. True, we have no choice and we all will serve him in the end. But there will be no cease to exist of any human life. The " Aittitude" of rebellion will cease to exist. Rejection of him will be eliminated. Unbelief in him will be destroyed. Those are the things God will mercilessly eliminate, NOT the people.

With God there is true freedom, but with him there is no such thing as freedom to go against him.

Peace.

 

[Blackdog22]

No, you still have part of it incorrect. True, we have no choice and we all will serve him in the end. But there will be no cease to exist of any human life. The " Aittitude" of rebellion will cease to exist. Rejection of him will be eliminated. Unbelief in him will be destroyed. Those are the things God will mercilessly eliminate, NOT the people.

With God there is true freedom, but with him there is no such thing as freedom to go against him.

Peace.

So your saying a piece of who we are will be stripped from us. What makes you think this idea is true? All that would be needed to believe in him would be too see him. If I saw God on a daily basis I would not deny him any more than I deny the monitor sitting in front of my face. I have never seen something and then denied it exists. Usually my first thoughts are a judgement of some type (i.e. That is pretty. That is ugly. That is big.) when I first see something, but never have I seen something and thought " Yep that doesn't exist." To do so would be insane.

So if what your saying is true then what is the point of Earth? If God is timeless then this moment has already happened and the future is what is real. So were already robots according to God. This all just seems very, very. Sci fi.

 

[mickiel]

So your saying a piece of who we are will be stripped from us. What makes you think this idea is true? quote

A whole lot more than just a piece of us will be stripped away. All sin will be stripped, all arrogance, all unbelief, all lust, all anger, and a whole lot more. We willnot be the same.


quote
So if what your saying is true then what is the point of Earth? If God is timeless then this moment has already happened and the future is what is real. So were already robots according to God. This all just seems very, very. Sci fi.

Were talking about " A God of All Power", I would imagine that everything to him could seem robotical. It all came from him, his incredible mind, but their " Living Creations." With their own individual Consciousness, rebellion is simply not allowed. Disobedience not even in the picture, going against him is just impossible. Its a non-issue that we are making an issue of.

We just can't make out a society of beings who are always and always will be perfectly obedient to their God. With the kind of Power God has, thats nothing for him to achieve, and its residents be complettely happy while being complettely individual.

Jesus once called God, " Power', he said he sits at the right hand of Power! God IS Power! These little issues of will and freedom of will and independant ability to decide are all meaningless to God, its how it ALWAYS is around him. Everything is in complette submission to him.

And God will have it no other way.

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Mickiel is tired of talking to me.
But no doubt his answer won't help.
A thief, hanging alongside the Carpenter did ask....
'remember me when you enter your kingdom'

The response...'this day you walk with Me in paradise.'

If a man who steals...a man that can't be trusted when you aren't looking...
can find his way into heaven during his last hour...
then a great many other thieves can find their way in.
The question should be...what can be forgiven?
Who should I allow at my back, as he follows me?
Would I ask a repent thief? someone who can lay down his practice?
Or someone who has denied me?

Whoa! Never did Jesus say: this day you walk with Me in paradise.
Jesus did not go anywhere the day he died but hell, not heaven or paradise.
According to Acts [2vs27,31] Jesus was in hell after he died and remained unconscious in hell until God resurrected him. [Ecc9v5]

Sure, Jesus was telling the thief 'on the day they died' [today] that on that very day Jesus promised the thief a future resurrection.

 

[Thief]

Whoa! Never did Jesus say: this day you walk with Me in paradise.
Jesus did not go anywhere the day he died but hell, not heaven or paradise.
According to Acts [2vs27,31] Jesus was in hell after he died and remained unconscious in hell until God resurrected him. [Ecc9v5]

Sure, Jesus was telling the thief 'on the day they died' [today] that on that very day Jesus promised the thief a future resurrection.

Today is today. If the Carpenter said ..today....it will be...today.

How you rationalize the gospels is up to you.

Your rebuttal was shallow and did not address the point I made.

But in all fairness...
cross reference the gospels and you will see serious conflict in the details.
It is the conflict that allows you to pick and chose what you prefer.
By all means...go ahead.

BTW...the point pertains to entry of heaven....
not when....but by what means.

Your say so?
God's?
Or perhaps you hoping on that 'clean slate' routine?
How about ...no hell at all?...that way you don't have to be clever about it.

 

[waitasec]

So you wish to save your fellow man....that's fine.

Perhaps you should use parables, as did your Lord.
The technique was used on purpose...to sort out those who understand....
they, who have ears that hear....eyes that see.

Then all this word play would be greatly reduced...less argument.

what about those who have an extra chromosome, back then they were considered possessed

 

[Thief]

what about those who have an extra chromosome, back then they were considered possessed

What about them?...really?

 

[waitasec]

What about them?...really?

they wouldn't be able to understand
do we need to pass an IQ test to get to heaven

 

[Thief]

they wouldn't be able to understand
do we need to pass an IQ test to get to heaven

The knowledge of good and evil.....is required.
Without it, you are no more than any other animal.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Without it, heaven would not be very peaceful.

 

[waitasec]

The knowledge of good and evil.....is required.
Without it, you are no more than any other animal.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Without it, heaven would not be very peaceful.

so a person with an extra chromosome understands this concept

 

[Thief]

so a person with an extra chromosome understands this concept

Hard telling.
Do you think a chemistry test would help?
Angels with dna testing equipment?

Want to risk you soul on a chemistry test?

(God doesn't judge after the flesh)
(But if He did...would your hair sample be the way you want it?)

oh that's right...you don't believe.

 

[waitasec]

Hard telling.
Do you think a chemistry test would help?
Angels with dna testing equipment?

Want to risk you soul on a chemistry test?

(God doesn't judge after the flesh)
(But if He did...would your hair sample be the way you want it?)

oh that's right...you don't believe.

your logic does not apply to EVERYONE a person with an extra chromosome
lives in another realm but they are "gods" creation, right?

risk my soul? was that a fear mongering tactic you just pulled?

 

[Misty]

In my view, this is " Exactly" one of the reasons why God is justified in all that he does. There is no one more powerful than he, no one can stop him, hes going to get everything he wants, he cannot be bargained with, he cannot be manipulated, he has no oppisition. We have no choice but to serve him. There are no other choices, no other ways- thats illusion.

Now, unlike Hitler, God is not evil. When the Righteous rule the people rejoice.

But in my view, God is he who MUST be obeyed, and there has NEVER been any other way, nor ever will be any other way.Heaven is NOT a democracy, and God is NOT asking for opinons. Not the God I understand.

Peace.

If the Biblical accounts are correct god is much more evil than Hitler!

As humans create god/gods we are in the driving seat and control our own versions of the deity, imo.

The god you understand needs a kick in the pants!

 

[luvuyesua]

what an interesting subject, may you find yourself in a blesssed position.

on Judgement day, as we will all be present.
it is described with these main things,
saints being jury (description)
we will hear everyones charge, (the repented actions, are forgotten erased from the book and not mentioned.
but the charges we held and at heart never really repented, will be heard.
and we will agree and understand his judgement, reasoning, and given result, that is a given
and we will agree with punishment be it hell or distruction or anything God determines is deserved.
and if it is hell, and God decides that should we not be in agreement.
When someone is convicted of a terrible act(mans judgement) and he is given life and death penalty, the act justifies the punishmet many agree a baby raped, deserves death in my eyes, or a severe punishment, and we humans have invented many horrible acts. (and their heart does not truely repent) that deserve severe punishment. and if God says a severe act to him is insulting the holy spirit for example, we must agree, and if we insult him we must agree to his punishment, he is God, many things our conscious tells us that God does not agree, even if you havent read the bible, I also think you will agree that who he sends to hell, is where they reeped to be

 

[Misty]

what an interesting subject, may you find yourself in a blesssed position.

on Judgement day, as we will all be present.
it is described with these main things,
saints being jury (description)
we will hear everyones charge, (the repented actions, are forgotten erased from the book and not mentioned.
but the charges we held and at heart never really repented, will be heard.
and we will agree and understand his judgement, reasoning, and given result, that is a given
and we will agree with punishment be it hell or distruction or anything God determines is deserved.
and if it is hell, and God decides that should we not be in agreement.
When someone is convicted of a terrible act(mans judgement) and he is given life and death penalty, the act justifies the punishmet many agree a baby raped, deserves death in my eyes, or a severe punishment, and we humans have invented many horrible acts. (and their heart does not truely repent) that deserve severe punishment. and if God says a severe act to him is insulting the holy spirit for example, we must agree, and if we insult him we must agree to his punishment, he is God, many things our conscious tells us that God does not agree, even if you havent read the bible, I also think you will agree that who he sends to hell, is where they reeped to be

No one, not even the most evil do not deserve to be sent to hell for all eternity, that is a nonense, everyone should be paroled eventually. Besides which, what right has an evil god, whose sins outclass the worst of all human failings, got to send anyone to hell?

 

[Thief]

your logic does not apply to EVERYONE a person with an extra chromosome
lives in another realm but they are "gods" creation, right?

risk my soul? was that a fear mongering tactic you just pulled?

Cause and effect is physical.
It can also be demonstrated, believing in life after death.

Are you afraid of what you don't understand?
Most people are.
Or perhaps, you do understand and simply want to make denial...anyway.

I don't think your chromosome discussion is working.

 

[mickiel]

There are 9 biblical reasons that eternal hell punishment willnot exist, they are listed in Galations 5:22-23, and they are the individual ways and means of God. " Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Self Control and Gentleness." These are the ways God thinks and Judges. These are the very foundations of thoughts which God uses to plan and determine.

They are the way he carries himself and rules.

And they are biblical proof that this hell of punishment willnot exist.

Peace.