The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[Meow Mix]

2,940 posts. Two questions: has anythting been determined and has anyone read them all?

It's hard to make determinations when theists consistently dance around or fail to answer the tough questions; or answer questions with special pleading fallacies.

What I want to know if the theists don't even understand their own position, why do they believe it?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It's hard to make determinations when theists consistently dance around or fail to answer the tough questions; or answer questions with special pleading fallacies.

What I want to know if the theists don't even understand their own position, why do they believe it?

You probably don't understand how your cell phone works but you still use it.

 

[Starsoul]

And Really, as much as its silly to deny hell, It is ever so foolish to deny oneself heaven.

Heaven cannot exist without casting a large number of evil people into hell, Ask the child who's been wronged by a pedophile, or a child who's got no idea who his parents are, or the mother whose little babies get murdered in cold blood, the list is endless!

How can anyone in his senses Not believe in Hell and actually think that ALL sorts of sick people will live in Heaven? Cant even begin to think how Kind these people think themselves to be, why don't they just go live in a penitentiary or a guanatamo bay or a terrorsit camp ,hope they'll get the gist of reality in time.

And yes, The concept of Allah (One God) In Islam is not only much sensible, but also More Magnanimous and Kind beyond any Human's perceptive capability. He's Kind to all, even those who do not believe in Him and those who assign Him partners,or deny His existence. And yes, He has forewarned All ,for those who were given a chance to grasp that reality, beleived in it rather than turn their face the other way.

And in this day and age Nobody can deny that they never heard of Him or never got to know the message of Islam. May Allah guide us all to the truth, Ameen.

 

[Starsoul]

>>Meow Mix>>What I want to know if the theists don't even understand their own position, why do they believe it?

And here we have another theory of denial. To get to the level of Atheists who don't believe in anything, is just a sad shallow de-escalating intellectual pace; dry, predictably constricted enough for themselves to remain there forever, and repelling enough for theists to even try hard to derive any inspiration from.

The dark sadness, wretched sorrow and everlasting melancholy they always speak with, is far too depressing for any spirited person to ever be inspired by their hypothesis. Athiesm is as much a self concocted lack of belief in anything, aimed at the high spirit of happy, believing theists, as much is the theory of the neopagan scientists who believe aliens will land on earth one day.

They just seem too unhappy and depressed to ever believe that their worries could be exchanged with everlasting joy, If they only believed. Sad , like I said, They'll always be sad, and sarcastic and well I feel bad for them. If they only utilized the same intellect in search of God, they'd find Him nearer them than they ever imagined. Just a poor, miserable lack of belief in everlasting Happiness, how sadder is anything than That?

 

[hyacinthus]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity.

I thought you were referring to the Muslim God.

 

[Starsoul]

It's hard to make determinations when theists consistently dance around or fail to answer the tough questions; or answer questions with special pleading fallacies.

That's a funny one, considering the fact that an Atheist has never been able to Prove even just for the sake of argument, that higher powers in the universe do not exist, they forget the theoretical fallacies of their alien science that they have feeding to the world for quite sometime now, regardless to say how ridiculous that hypothetical claim is.

Its only when, something to the effect 'Excellence' has to be talked about by theists,(which athiests loose the will or want to ever experience) as they do not (want to) possess the intellect to absorb that goodness, they have to deny it to zero out any positive energy that could ever influence them. Again, that is just so sad, cant help feeling bad for them.

 

[Misty]

You probably don't understand how your cell phone works but you still use it.

Not a good analogy. A mobile phone was created by human technology, whereas anything to do with God is pure assumption there is no provable data for its existence.

 

[Meow Mix]

You probably don't understand how your cell phone works but you still use it.

My cell phone clearly works, so of course I'll use it.

Your analogy would only be good if, say, you had a cell phone that only contacted someone on a planet across the galaxy -- but the catch is that you can't hear them, so you're not really sure whether or not it's actually working.

Would you still use it then?

There's a difference between believing something that has apparent problems and having to magically concoct explanations for it like "Oh we just can't know the answer to that, but we should believe it anyway" and in using a piece of technology that's clearly efficacious because you can hear the other person's voice on the other end clear as day. Plus, if I *really* wanted to, I could in principle learn how a cell phone works. Theistic excuses for God's apparent evil are basically that NO ONE could know in principle how it's actually "good." That's asinine.

Mental gymnastics -- if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

[Meow Mix]

And here we have another theory of denial. To get to the level of Atheists who don't believe in anything, is just a sad shallow de-escalating intellectual pace; dry, predictably constricted enough for themselves to remain there forever, and repelling enough for theists to even try hard to derive any inspiration from.

The dark sadness, wretched sorrow and everlasting melancholy they always speak with, is far too depressing for any spirited person to ever be inspired by their hypothesis. Athiesm is as much a self concocted lack of belief in anything, aimed at the high spirit of happy, believing theists, as much is the theory of the neopagan scientists who believe aliens will land on earth one day.

They just seem too unhappy and depressed to ever believe that their worries could be exchanged with everlasting joy, If they only believed. Sad , like I said, They'll always be sad, and sarcastic and well I feel bad for them. If they only utilized the same intellect in search of God, they'd find Him nearer them than they ever imagined. Just a poor, miserable lack of belief in everlasting Happiness, how sadder is anything than That?

Wow, sorry that you have such a misinformed conception of the status of atheists' happiness. I'm very happy; I'm beginning a great career, I've found true love, I enjoy basking in the beauty of world when I take my morning jogs and at night when I lay on my porch balcony to look at the stars.

My life is rich, rewarding, and purposeful; and my outlook on life is nothing short of jubilation.

I don't understand why I could ever be mistaken for depressed!

 

[hyacinthus]

i see a clock but no clockmaker...

 

[Starsoul]

My cell phone clearly works, so of course I'll use it.

Your analogy would only be good if, say, you had a cell phone that only contacted someone on a planet across the galaxy -- but the catch is that you can't hear them, so you're not really sure whether or not it's actually working.

Would you still use it then?

There's a difference between believing something that has apparent problems and having to magically concoct explanations for it like "Oh we just can't know the answer to that, but we should believe it anyway" and in using a piece of technology that's clearly efficacious because you can hear the other person's voice on the other end clear as day. Plus, if I *really* wanted to, I could in principle learn how a cell phone works. Theistic excuses for God's apparent evil are basically that NO ONE could know in principle how it's actually "good." That's asinine.

Mental gymnastics -- if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Expected you to figure out earlier, As long as we've got plenty of scientific atheists to do all the mental and physical gymnastics and all the mental exhaustion for the prosperity of theists, why do you think we'd want to loose our supposed duck pond ? kidding

Sounds like you haven't really given anyone a fair chance to conceptualize evil's mechanisms to you, because they are simpler than e=mc2(square)

 

[Meow Mix]

Expected you to figure out earlier, As long as we've got plenty of scientific atheists to do all the mental and physical gymnastics and all the mental exhaustion for the prosperity of theists, why do you think we'd want to loose our supposed duck pond ? kidding

Sounds like you haven't really given anyone a fair chance to conceptualize evil's mechanisms to you, because they are simpler than e=mc2(square)

Well, give it a go then. Why does suffering exist if an omnipotent, omniscient being exists which can prevent it from existing?

 

[Starsoul]

Wow, sorry that you have such a misinformed conception of the status of atheists' happiness. I'm very happy; I'm beginning a great career, I've found true love, I enjoy basking in the beauty of world when I take my morning jogs and at night when I lay on my porch balcony to look at the stars.

My life is rich, rewarding, and purposeful; and my outlook on life is nothing short of jubilation.

I don't understand why I could ever be mistaken for depressed!

Although I'm really happy for you, but you did not get what I meant..

I wasn't talking about happiness related to the acquisition of personal achievements over some period of time, That is the main reason you fail to grasp the level of consciousness theists talk about...You commented in your previous post about ,

>>Meow Mix>>Theistic excuses for God's apparent evil are basically that NO ONE could know in principle how it's actually "good." That's asinine.

Now that's closer to an atheist's actual belief rather than what they usually preach most of the times. They believe in God (otherwise these words wouldn't have come out of your mouth) but they are unable to level out, or explain or understand the cause and effect of the rampant evil events that are prevalent in this world.

And the inability to relate Love and kindness to a deity, because they haven't really gotten the clues to unlock the mystery of the world, they just suffice to the concept of assigning evilness to God rather than truly attempting to grasp the several routes of consciousness that lead to His true Nature.

And hence they refuse to believe in Him because that evil concept does not go well with their,or anyone's personal image of God.

I along with many theists have all these happy moments in our lives too, but you don't understand the concept of True happiness that we talk about, because that's all the happy you've ever been and that's about all the image of happiness that is fed to the atheist world.

How would you defend an atheist who is a miserable wreck inspite of all the worldly achievements (which are not everlasting) that you have mentioned? And, he's pretty rich too.(this is a real one)

And how does an atheist console a person who is unhappy ,about happiness if they lack all the things that you have mentioned?

 

[Meow Mix]

Now that's closer to an atheist's actual belief rather than what they usually preach most of the times. They believe in God (otherwise these words wouldn't have come out of your mouth) but they are unable to level out, or explain or understand the cause and effect of the rampant evil events that are prevalent in this world.

What? No, atheists don't believe in God. Why theists keep asserting this is beyond my understanding. The definition of being an atheist is to be without belief that gods exist.

And the inability to relate Love and kindness to a deity, because they haven't really gotten the clues to unlock the mystery of the world, they just suffice to the concept of assigning evilness to God rather than truly attempting to grasp the several routes of consciousness that lead to His true Nature.

I'm not sure what you mean here. The argument is that IF there is an omnipotent/omniscient/benevolent God, THEN there shouldn't be any suffering in the world. Since there is suffering in the world, then there's a contradiction for believers in such a god.

And hence they refuse to believe in Him because that evil concept does not go well with their,or anyone's personal image of God.

LOL. We don't believe in gods because there is no evidence or reason TO believe in gods -- the fact that many god concepts are self-contradictory is just the icing on the cake.

I along with many theists have all these happy moments in our lives

too, but you don't understand the concept of True happiness that we talk about, because that's all the happy you've ever been and that's about all the image of happiness that is fed to the atheist world.

I'm truly happy. It doesn't get any happier than this.

How would you defend an atheist who is a miserable wreck inspite of all the worldly achievements (which are not everlasting) that you have mentioned? And, he's pretty rich too.(this is a real one)

And how does an atheist console a person who is unhappy ,about happiness if they lack all the things that you have mentioned?

I would console them by telling the truth: that times are tough but with some work they can make things better for themselves; there's always a future to look forward to. Even in the darkest of times we still have many things to be glad for such as our friends.

The last thing I would want to do to comfort someone is spin a fairy tale about immortality in a magic place without any more suffering.

 

[Beta]

Well, give it a go then. Why does suffering exist if an omnipotent, omniscient being exists which can prevent it from existing?

Since you pose a simple question it deserves a simple answer.
Suffering exists because of man's own choice.
God has given man free will to do his own thing during a 6 day period Ex.20v9. Since a day can be as a thousand years with God 2Pet.3v8 we have now almost completed 6000 years of human self-rule. And what you see in this godless world is the result of our own doing.
Too many people blame God for something they don't understand. :no:

 

[Meow Mix]

Since you pose a simple question it deserves a simple answer.
Suffering exists because of man's own choice.
God has given man free will to do his own thing during a 6 day period Ex.20v9. Since a day can be as a thousand years with God 2Pet.3v8 we have now almost completed 6000 years of human self-rule. And what you see in this godless world is the result of our own doing.
Too many people blame God for something they don't understand. :no:

I could understand what you're saying if you said that some people choose to hurt other people, and that such suffering is an unfortunate side effect of their free will to do so.

However, your explanation above doesn't explain why there is natural suffering like diseases, genetic defects, natural disasters, droughts, and so on.

Can you explain why those exist? I've seen the whole "sin brought those into existence" arguments but that seems a little silly to me. After all, it makes sense that if you put your hand on a hot burner that you'll recoil in pain -- how is it exactly that "sin" causes natural suffering? I mean it didn't come from nowhere.

 

[Beta]

I could understand what you're saying if you said that some people choose to hurt other people, and that such suffering is an unfortunate side effect of their free will to do so.
However, your explanation above doesn't explain why there is natural suffering like diseases, genetic defects, natural disasters, droughts, and so on.
Can you explain why those exist? I've seen the whole "sin brought those into existence" arguments but that seems a little silly to me. After all, it makes sense that if you put your hand on a hot burner that you'll recoil in pain -- how is it exactly that "sin" causes natural suffering? I mean it didn't come from nowhere.

Hurting others is just a little more than 'unfortunate' it is downright evil. Maybe you will see it for what it is when it happens to you.
Natural disasters are not due to personal sins as are Health-issues that can arise from heredity, abuse , neglect or ignorance all of which stem from human (physical) actions. If people were to keep God's Health Laws they could be avoided.
Natural disasters are the result of an 'untamed' world not yet perfected. God was to teach man how to do it IF we had obeyed him in the beginning. Human disobedience is a 'spiritual act' with long-lasting consequences unless quickly repented of.
This is human failure in a nutshell .

 

[Meow Mix]

Hurting others is just a little more than 'unfortunate' it is downright evil. Maybe you will see it for what it is when it happens to you.
Natural disasters are not due to personal sins as are Health-issues that can arise from heredity, abuse , neglect or ignorance all of which stem from human (physical) actions. If people were to keep God's Health Laws they could be avoided.
Natural disasters are the result of an 'untamed' world not yet perfected. God was to teach man how to do it IF we had obeyed him in the beginning. Human disobedience is a 'spiritual act' with long-lasting consequences unless quickly repented of.
This is human failure in a nutshell .

That doesn't answer why these things exist, since they could logically not exist. They had to be created by something (if we assume the theistic assertion that things are created). What created disease, drought, genetic defects? Your answer is a bit vague.

Did God create them, or did something else create them? If something else created them, why did God allow it?

 

[Beta]

That doesn't answer why these things exist, since they could logically not exist. They had to be created by something (if we assume the theistic assertion that things are created). What created disease, drought, genetic defects? Your answer is a bit vague.

Did God create them, or did something else create them? If something else created them, why did God allow it?

You are reasoning along human logic which is imperfect and can not possibly take into account what God has done, is doing and will yet do or the reason why.
I perceive you have no intention of believing, trusting and honouring God which would prevent any further understanding Heb.11v6 since this is the most basic beginning required of man.
This is sadly the case with most people who are only seeking answers for their own satisfaction without considering GOD's wishes.

 

[Misty]

You are reasoning along human logic which is imperfect and can not possibly take into account what God has done, is doing and will yet do or the reason why.
I perceive you have no intention of believing, trusting and honouring God which would prevent any further understanding Heb.11v6 since this is the most basic beginning required of man.
This is sadly the case with most people who are only seeking answers for their own satisfaction without considering GOD's wishes.

Human logic is all we have. If the logic of the evil Biblical deity is anything to go by we are light years ahead of it in every way!