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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.
- Thread starter mickiel
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Go for it !!!
NeoSeeker
Searching Low & High
My guess is that most people don't seek spiritual guidance from the big guy using their phones.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
The concept of no hell is a reality that one has to view from the mind of God, its what he wants that is reality, not what humans want and desire. Hell is a human desire, humans wishing for other humans to suffer forever.
Thats all it is, a human desire.
We need to key in to Gods desires, not our own.
Were too perverted.
Peace.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
Do you read the Bible?
mickiel
Well-Known Member
I do read it, and I read the mind of Christianity as well. The views of Christians, in this matter of hell, does not match the bible as I understand it. God created humans to live, to have life. We must all die, yes, but only because Gods reality, his world is a Spirit world, our flesh was temporal in design. We all are destined to live forever with him, Christians don't want that, they seek to limit this great salvation;
To only themselves. Its called selfishness, in my view. And they just happen to think that God is like them.
Peace.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
Salvation doesn't just fall in your lap. You have to ask for it, work for it. Jesus Christ takes that problem of eternal suffering and offers a way out, so if it weren't for the shed blood of the Lamb, hell would indeed be a sick concept. So would heaven, in fact. Without the Yin there is no Yang. Without darkness there is no light.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
No humanity has been given Salvation complettely free, it is Christianity that looks to put a working price on it, because they think they control it. And your understanding is a result of that controlled learning.
Peace.
Believers' Tactics 101:
Step 1: Get posed a legitimate question about an apparent dilemma
Step 2: Offer an answer that references the dilemma but doesn't solve it
Step 3: When the atheist points out the dilemma still exists, start using special pleading fallacy to ensure that no response is possible by putting the problem outside the bounds of human understanding; i.e. claiming God does something inexplicable that "solves" the dilemma
So far I haven't seen a single theist answer these questions without resorting to special pleading fallacies...
Fallacies are called "fallacious" for a reason people...
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
mickiel
Well-Known Member
You believe Jesus was beaten to death so that unbelieving humans can be beaten for eternity.
Your belief is beaten, the gates of hell do not stop salvation, no matter how much you desire to support those gates.
Peace.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
You have the hatred & malice of a demon. You may very well be a demon.
But my belief will not be beaten by the likes of you. Go back to hell.
I.S.L.A.M617
Illuminatus
People that don't believe in eternal torture are full of hatred and malice? If that's the standard, demons are great.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
My belief is that God created all humans to live forever, because of his love for them. Your belief calls that hatred and malice, you believe he created us to witness the majority of us to be doomed to your hell, and somehow you see no malice in that.
You insinuate that my belief is demonic, when actually it is yours that is full of malice.
Nothing like ther true love of Christ.
Peace.
Starsoul
Truth
No, atheists just don't want to believe in god, that yearning is too obvious to ignore.
I'll very much agree with >>beta here, since there is lack of belief on your side of the argument, i cannot refer to any divine laws or the word of god, for it's going to be entirely lost on you, no matter how convincing it may seem.
If I was to talk from science's aspect, it places Matter as opposed to God. Any well read person may know that all forms of matter in the universe must come from another matter, otherwise you will be denying the very basic spirit of science which stands solely on the emulation of matter.
1st) How did the huge mass of the universe came into being by it own self? And why is it still in the process of expansion? There has to be a significant bigger Matter which gave rise to the visible energy forms that we see today.
2nd) How do you assign that specific matter as, which gave the universe its complex form of gases, rocks, suns and planets, to be so variable in its design , being capable of creating the outer universe in extreme un-survivable conditions and yet procuring life of extremely different kinds at earth ,each entirely different and complex in nature, not justifying in any possible way, to come to Originate from any 'space matter' that has been identified as yet and cannot even be speculated to come from a broken star, a comet's dust or the Saturn's rings.
3rd ) How do you justify the multiplex of natural forms, co-existing in complete harmony, without any interference from the homo-sapiens? The sun and the moon rise and shine at their own specific times, the rain is showered at the best time of the crop season, The decaying matter of all known and unknown organisms is handled by Nature itself( ever thought of about appointing men to clean up the oceans and the soil, had the decay process was not formed by Nature?) What is the role of science in decay other than offering irreversible damage (pollution) to nature in space, on earth and the landscape? Why do the harmful space gases ,existing by nature, NOT interfere in the disturbance of the life on earth ?
The list is too long to be brought here, about we as Humans, do we have to take care of the minute cellular metabolisms that take place in our bodies, without a gap of millionth of a second's stop? Do we have to make oxygen breathable by purifying it to our requirements? or were we not breathing when science hadn't discovered that we breath oxygen? We can't even choose our parents, we have no power over our DNA/ genetic makeup and we have no answer for why we came into this world and yet we falsely assign science to be our savior.
Nature is in it's unbeatable continuous cycle whether or not the innumerable forms of nature are willing to agree.
I will not go further if the concept of creation in an athiest's mind is based on ''coming from 'nothing' to 'matter' suddenly''. That's a huge insult to Science and atheists themselves. Wish that they also read science with its undeniable natural spirit rather than just the undecipherable meus and nues
'I' kill somebody out of jealousy or just for pure fun, and god is evil .... Very Reasonable.
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mickiel
Well-Known Member
This is so like the Christian mentality, calling people demons and condemning them to hell.
Why would God endorse such a mentality?
These are just not the people of God. When Gods people finally show up, it will embarass Christianity.
Peace.
With respect, I will refrain from analyzing your psychology and what you "really want" if you agree to do the same. You are not an atheist, you don't know what atheists "want," first of all -- and secondly, there is so much variation between atheists that the idea that they all "want" the same thing is patently absurd.
You can refer to divine laws or holy texts if you support them with evidence. If you can rationally justify that what the text is saying is true, there's no reason why we shouldn't believe it.
As an atheist, I'm not disbelieving just for fun -- I lack belief because I haven't seen any solid justification for the truth of theism. Bring justification to the table and you solve the problem of atheism.
It's exactly the same way as if you were trying to convince your friend that there's a dragon in your garage: of course they're going to say "I'm not really convinced that's true." How do you convince them? Well, you can read them a story that has dragons in them; but they're not going to believe that either unless you somehow justify that the story is true -- and most importantly, that the part of the story with dragons in it is true. You're otherwise going to have to give your friend some kind of evidence that there's a dragon in your garage because if you don't, they're fully rationally justified in being skeptical.
Actually there is no conservation of matter. Matter appears and disappears all the time in the quantum vacuum and in electronics devices like your computer (see: casimir effect). There is a conservation of energy, however.
Nobody asserts that the universe "came into being by its own self," at least not competent physicists with an understanding of metaphysics. No statements can scientifically be made about the universe prior to the first Planck time after the big bang event.
It may well be that the universe has always existed in some form, for instance. There are many possibilities, none of which we can really comment on at this time though because we aren't able to fully research it yet.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The universe is variable because of the distribution of mass and simple physical forces like gravity, electromagnetism, and the nuclear forces.
There are 400 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy, and about as many galaxies in the visible universe as there are stars in the Milky Way. Many of those stars have planets, and many stars that have planets have more than one planet per star. With those kinds of odds it's really not surprising at all that life was able to develop, even if life developing is an improbable event.
Consider this: the odds of winning America's Powerball lottery (with pots in the hundreds of millions at times) is 1:80,089,128. There are 400,000,000,000 stars in our galaxy alone -- and remember that most planets have more than one planet, but in this example let's just pretend each star only has one planet. If each star in our galaxy had a Powerball ticket, there would be about 4,994 winners.
Should we be surprised by that? Now consider that our star has eight planets, not counting its planetoids. A more reasonable estimate of the number of planets in our galaxy would average to something like 4 planets per star (to make up for all the binary/trinary stars). So, 400 billion * 4 = 1.6 trillion planets, where if each one had a powerball ticket there would be about 20,000 lottery winners. Surprising? Nah -- very improbable things can happen with large enough numbers.
Now remember that that's just considering the planets in this galaxy. There are hundreds of billions of other galaxies out there, each with hundreds of billions of stars. Even if life only develops in a few galaxies, the odds are still overwhelmingly in favor of life being able to develop -- even if it's extremely improbable.
Just wanted to point out that the rain doesn't happen at the best time of the crop season because it wants to water the crops, what happened is crops evolved to have their "season" when it's more likely to rain -- not the other way around. Rain happens because of meteorological conditions and plants have adapted to those conditions. The world wasn't made for life, life adapts to the world.
I'm not sure what you're asking here, can you rephrase it?
We breathe oxygen in the first place because we adapted to it -- the first forms of life were anaerobic, meaning oxygen was indeed poisonous to them; so it's interesting that you mentioned that. Again, life adapts to the universe; not the other way around -- the universe isn't "made for life," life has to get used to the conditions in the universe, which will go right on churning regardless of whether life is here or not.
Nature is in it's unbeatable continuous cycle whether or not the innumerable forms of nature are willing to agree.
I will not go further if the concept of creation in an athiest's mind is based on ''coming from 'nothing' to 'matter' suddenly''. That's a huge insult to Science and atheists themselves. Wish that they also read science with its undeniable natural spirit rather than just the undecipherable meus and nues
Yes it is an insult to atheists to suggest they believe such a silly thing -- but they don't, at least not any atheists who have any understanding of physics and metaphysics.
I wasn't talking about suffering caused by free will, I was talking about things like disease, genetic defects, floods, hurricanes, and so on -- humans didn't make those; where did they come from if a god exists?
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Edit: Earlier I had mistyped 400 billion to be 400 million and did my calculation based on that error, it's now fixed.
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mickiel
Well-Known Member
And Christians really believe this kind of thinking to be our Gods thinking. This man labels me a demon and sends me to his hell. Where is the love? Where is the patience, the longsuffering, the mercy and grace that defines God?
Its certainly not here in this person. Yet they expect us to assume along with them that its there.
Insane contridiction.
Peace.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
So...let's run with that....
First you must concede life after death.
If you won't do this much.....what are you doing in this thread?
Having conceded the hereafter....then Someone will be in charge.
Someone will have control.
But let's say that each human has his own desire for hell.
And that Someone in control won't stand in the way......
Then hell does exist.
You made it for yourself.
Who do you propose has a desire for hell? I certainly don't.