The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[St Giordano Bruno]

yeah well......

Do dead men dream?

What if they do?
And cannot awaken from the grave?
Nightmares....forever?

The brain has to be alive to dream or have nightmares. Synapses have to be firing their neurotransmitters as the person is going through rapid eye movement sleep as person is having those bad dreams. I think dead men will just forget they were ever born in the first place.

 

[lockyfan]

The brain has to be alive to dream or have nightmares. Synapses have to be firing their neurotransmitters as the person is going through rapid eye movement sleep as person is having those bad dreams. I think dead men will just forget they were ever born in the first place.

Ec 9:5
For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.

Romans 6:23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.


So I agree with you. But the bible also talks about a Resurrection of the dead.

John 5:25-30
Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.


So we will come back from the dead, but onto an earthly paradise (ps 37:10-11, 29)

 

[Thief]

The brain has to be alive to dream or have nightmares. Synapses have to be firing their neurotransmitters as the person is going through rapid eye movement sleep as person is having those bad dreams. I think dead men will just forget they were ever born in the first place.

To forget....nay.

Blind men think.
So do people who are numb.

It may be difficult to say with certainty where the connection fails....
altogether.

But you can't get out of your body....now....even though you seem to be in control.

You might not be able to get out when your dead.

Eternal darkness is physically real.
No form of light follows anyone into the grave.

So, when your chemistry fails...and your body goes in the box....
are you going with it?

Or would you prefer to abandon the flesh...and be the spirit you are intended to be.

Or maybe you think the creation of Man never had a purpose?

 

[lockyfan]

To forget....nay.

Blind men think.
So do people who are numb.

But blind mens minds or brains are still working. The brain shuts down at death

It may be difficult to say with certainty where the connection fails....
altogether.

But you can't get out of your body....now....even though you seem to be in control.

You might not be able to get out when your dead.

Eternal darkness is physically real.
No form of light follows anyone into the grave.

So, when your chemistry fails...and your body goes in the box....
are you going with it?

Or would you prefer to abandon the flesh...and be the spirit you are intended to be.

The bible actually says that His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish. Psalms 146:4

But it also tells of a resurrection. Job 14:13
O that in She′ol you would conceal me,
That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
Or maybe you think the creation of Man never had a purpose?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So, when your chemistry fails...and your body goes in the box....
are you going with it?
Or would you prefer to abandon the flesh...and be the spirit you are intended to be.
Or maybe you think the creation of Man never had a purpose?

Isn't God's purpose recorded at >Genesis 1v28?_______

When you mention 'the spirit you are intended to be' sounds as if you have Ecclesiastes 12v7 in mind?

Did you notice that verse does not actually mention the spirit traveling up to heaven or or returning up to heaven?

Does a return or returning always have to mean to a literal location?_____
For example: When there is a foreclosure of a house, the house does not move or go anywhere. Although it is returned, or goes back to the owner,
the repossession of it is in the hands of the owner, but not in his literal or actual hands.

Also, look closer at Ecc 12v7 to see if that is really talking about a spirit body being released or abandoned from a physical body?
Would you think of your spirit body as an 'it'?
Yet, that is what the spirit is called at Ecc [12v7 B] an 'it' .-KJV
So, one's spirit 'it' means any future return to life now rests in God's hands.
Also, like man's spirit being an 'it', so too is God's spirit referred to as: 'itself'
at Romans 8vs16,26.- KJV

Psalm [143v7] says the spirit can fail or end.
So since the spirit can fail, then is it functional or eternal?
When we flip the light switch there is a spark of energy or energizing force energizing something. When a light bulb fails it goes out; it does not literally go anywhere it is just dead out. Unlike light bulbs Jesus promises us a resurrection back to life either in heaven, or on a beautiful paradisaic earth during his thousand-year reign over earth.
-Acts 24v15.

 

[Thief]

Isn't God's purpose recorded at >Genesis 1v28?_______

When you mention 'the spirit you are intended to be' sounds as if you have Ecclesiastes 12v7 in mind?

Did you notice that verse does not actually mention the spirit traveling up to heaven or or returning up to heaven?

Does a return or returning always have to mean to a literal location?_____
For example: When there is a foreclosure of a house, the house does not move or go anywhere. Although it is returned, or goes back to the owner,
the repossession of it is in the hands of the owner, but not in his literal or actual hands.

Also, look closer at Ecc 12v7 to see if that is really talking about a spirit body being released or abandoned from a physical body?
Would you think of your spirit body as an 'it'?
Yet, that is what the spirit is called at Ecc [12v7 B] an 'it' .-KJV
So, one's spirit 'it' means any future return to life now rests in God's hands.
Also, like man's spirit being an 'it', so too is God's spirit referred to as: 'itself'
at Romans 8vs16,26.- KJV

Psalm [143v7] says the spirit can fail or end.
So since the spirit can fail, then is it functional or eternal?
When we flip the light switch there is a spark of energy or energizing force energizing something. When a light bulb fails it goes out; it does not literally go anywhere it is just dead out. Unlike light bulbs Jesus promises us a resurrection back to life either in heaven, or on a beautiful paradisaic earth during his thousand-year reign over earth.
-Acts 24v15.

Okay...you can quote.....but can you think?

Jesus went which way?...took His body with Him....
How far do you think He got?

 

[slowbreath]

The bible mentions hell, and it's a nasty proposition, but it's not as central a doctrine as you make it seem. You may also want to consider whether your reading of scripture is as accurate as you think it is. Scripture does say that God is wrathful and even recounts some occasions where God personally or through proxies expressed his wrath.

i dont think his concern is about hell, i think its about a god that would torture someone for eternity, incidently, its one of my problems too.

 

[slowbreath]

But blind mens minds or brains are still working. The brain shuts down at death


The bible actually says that His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish. Psalms 146:4

But it also tells of a resurrection. Job 14:13
O that in She′ol you would conceal me,
That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
Or maybe you think the creation of Man never had a purpose?

youre sidestepping his issue, and it wont get addressed no matter how much scripture you regurgitate.

 

[Thief]

But blind mens minds or brains are still working. The brain shuts down at death


The bible actually says that His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish. Psalms 146:4

But it also tells of a resurrection. Job 14:13
O that in She′ol you would conceal me,
That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
Or maybe you think the creation of Man never had a purpose?

You're not quoting well.

Resurrection is spiritual.
The body fails....not the spirit.

And are you quoting my question? or trying to answer it?

 

[Beta]

i dont think his concern is about hell, i think its about a god that would torture someone for eternity, incidently, its one of my problems too.

There is no eternal torture - it is a false concept that men teach , not God.
Mal.4 says the wicked shall burn up...and become ashes under the feet of the saints.
Eccl.9 says the dead know not anything ...nor have they any part in anything done under the sun.
When people have a false concept of death the rest of their reasoning goes astray.:yes:

 

[waitasec]

it is a false concept that men teach , not God.

yes, but man created god...
ultimately a false concept. if god is god, why does god rely on prophets and meets with them in secret?

 

[slowbreath]

There is no eternal torture - it is a false concept that men teach , not God.
Mal.4 says the wicked shall burn up...and become ashes under the feet of the saints.
Eccl.9 says the dead know not anything ...nor have they any part in anything done under the sun.
When people have a false concept of death the rest of their reasoning goes astray.:yes:

good answer..........i also dont believe the bible teaches eternal punishment in hell, or eternal punishment period . i believe some christian zealots concocted it, between 1300 AD and 1700 AD, with the design of having more power, and or influence.

 

[Thief]

So what if there is a life after death?

And the biggest, fastest, strongest, most intelligent, and most experienced of spirits.....doesn't like you?

Pretty much on your own?

No one to show you around....learn the scheme of things....the language...
what to look out for....

You could end up safer in your grave...rotting.

Eternal darkness is real.
No form of light follows anyone into the grave.

Choices...choices..... choices....
and the one that really counts doesn't belong to you.

 

[waitasec]

So what if there is a life after death?

And the biggest, fastest, strongest, most intelligent, and most experienced of spirits.....doesn't like you?

Pretty much on your own?

No one to show you around....learn the scheme of things....the language...
what to look out for....

You could end up safer in your grave...rotting.

Eternal darkness is real.
No form of light follows anyone into the grave.

Choices...choices..... choices....
and the one that really counts doesn't belong to you.

we are on our own
comparing ourselves to the starlit sky we are so small
all we have to rely on in the here and now are the ones that give meaning to our lives while we still breathe.
how does living become secondary?

 

[slowbreath]

So what if there is a life after death?

And the biggest, fastest, strongest, most intelligent, and most experienced of spirits.....doesn't like you?

Pretty much on your own?

No one to show you around....learn the scheme of things....the language...
what to look out for....

You could end up safer in your grave...rotting.

Eternal darkness is real.
No form of light follows anyone into the grave.

Choices...choices..... choices....
and the one that really counts doesn't belong to you.

what if there isnt life after death? that question is just as potent as yours.
attempting to scare a person to believe like you do should be a red flag moment to you that your arguement doesnt have legs of its own.

 

[Thief]

what if there isnt life after death? that question is just as potent as yours.
attempting to scare a person to believe like you do should be a red flag moment to you that your arguement doesnt have legs of its own.

I can answer your rhetoric.

If there is no life after death....
you are the sum of your chemistry.
When it fails ...you fail.

Dust you are...dust you will be.

And no...I'm not trying to scare anyone.
Just pointing out what should be obvious.

 

[Maury83]

The word "hell" is found in many Bible translations. In the same verses, other translations read "the grave", "the world of the dead", and so forth.
Other Bibles simply transliterate the original-language words that are sometimes rendered "hell"; that is, they express them with the letters of our alphabet but leave the words untranslated.
These words are "She'ohl" and "Hai'des" (Hebrew and Greek referring to the common grave of dead mankind); also the Greek "Ge'en-na" which is used as a symbol of eternal destruction.
However, both in christendhom and in many non-christian religions it is taught that hell is a place inhabited by demons and where the wicked, after death, are punished with torment.

This is a teaching not supported by the Bible:
Ecclesiastes 9:5,10: "The living are concious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are concious of nothing at all".
Psalms 146:4: "In that day his thoughts do perish..".
Ezekiah 18:4: "the soul (person) that is sinning-it itself will die".

God created humans to live on earth, where we can enjoy life, sandy beaches, colorful flowers, tasty fresh foods, beautiful sunsets, the sound of singing birds, the company of friends and our partner.

If we really ascended to heaven after death what would life be? How boaring would that be?
All humans have the inborn desire to live as long and healthy as possible (no one would ever accept to decide the date of his/her death) and we were not meant to grow old and die.
It just wansn't God's purpose.

 

[slowbreath]

I can answer your rhetoric.

If there is no life after death....
you are the sum of your chemistry.
When it fails ...you fail.

Dust you are...dust you will be.

And no...I'm not trying to scare anyone.
Just pointing out what should be obvious.

rhetoric??.......what i said you think is rhetoric? if what i say is rhetoric, what is what you say called? how do you define what YOU say should be the obvious?
there's 2 questions here.

 

[Thief]

rhetoric??.......what i said you think is rhetoric? if what i say is rhetoric, what is what you say called? how do you define what YOU say should be the obvious?
there's 2 questions here.

And what denial do you prefer?

 

[ConfusedKuri]

I've reached the conclusion the whole idea of heaven and hell is a way of psychological manipulation. It instills fear within human-beings, I find that very dangerous. Heaven and hell are states you can reach on earth.