Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
I don't understand, but I can't really comment on where God is taking you. I don't know what His plans are for you. I don't know how He intends to use you, where or how or when. I understand that I do not understand.
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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.
- Thread starter mickiel
- Start date
I don't understand, but I can't really comment on where God is taking you. I don't know what His plans are for you. I don't know how He intends to use you, where or how or when. I understand that I do not understand.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Listen, you stepped in to this, and I respect the way you are speaking with me. You are walking with care and concern, coupled with some wisdom, I honor that. The church is not for me, but I know the TRUE church that Christ is setting up will exist. I don't think he has chosen it as of now, but I think its possible hes now " Setting it up now or in some future." The bible is very clear on the church, human believers are just not clear on its true structure.
The church to come will be chosen by God, but they will only be the fristfruits of a great harvest of this whole world, a number that cannot be counted means it will be a greatmass of humans. I think John saw the whole world being chosen. But thats another issue.
Knowing ones personal destiny is not an easy thing, God is complex, and only he can reveal his complexity. He wants me outside of this church, and there is nothing I can do about that, my destiny is to walk alone.
My only hope is that it is he who gudies my walk.
Peace.
Jeremiah commented on where God is taking people if they want it.
Jeremiah [29v11] shows God's purpose for obedient mankind is thoughts of peace, and not evil calamity, to give an expected future and a hope.
That would be a heavenly hope, or an earthly hope of everlasting life on a paradisaic earth starting with Jesus 1000-year reign over earth.
Jesus told us how God would like to use us before the end of all badness comes on earth: Matthew 24v14 says to spread the good news of God's kingdom on a global or world wide scale.
- Acts 1v8 B; 13v47
RaimThunder
Member
The problem with your mindset is just that. It's YOUR mindset, not God's. When it comes to the word of God, our own personal opinion means nothing. We should know that by now. Who have you ever known to give God counsel? I'll wait.
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
John 8:32
thecomforter.info
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
John 8:32
thecomforter.info
waitasec
Veteran Member
explain what logic and reasoning is
do yo think the concept of hell, within the parameters the bible labels the god of the bible, is logical?
so how is it you know his thoughts?
There are both public and private prayers suitable for the occasion.
Jesus valued temporary times for R&R to refresh and pray while being alone.
Moses did go up to the mountain alone, but wasn't it to be with God as opposed to just being alone by himself?
Proverbs 18v1 mentions that a man separated from others will seek his own selfish longing. A friend, a brother, loves another by being there for the other in times of troubles. -Proverbs 17v17.
Proverbs 27v17 mentions that iron sharpens iron. In that same respect the face of one man sharpens the face of another man. Can't do that alone.
However, as Micah [4v5] mentions every one [singular] will walk in the name of his god.........
...and isn't that why 1st Cor 2v16 says who knows the mind of God, that we may instruct God, but we do have the mind of Christ.
We have Christ's mind through the pages of Scripture to instruct and to teach us about God.
Isaiah [11v9 B] foretold that the time will come when the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as waters cover the sea.
How are people in hell eternally dead when they are resurrected from hell?
Just as Jesus was resurrected from hell [Acts 2vs27,31; Psalm 16v10]
The dead in hell are 'delivered up' according to Rev 20vs13,14.
After all in the Bible hell are 'delivered up' [resurrected] then hell becomes vacant. Emptied-out hell then is done away with in a symbolic second death.
Only the wicked are destroyed just as Satan will be destroyed. -Heb 2v14 B.
Elipticalvoyage
Member
I dont know much about doctrine, but, Hells in the bible. THE BIBLE GUYS, its sad but... its true.
However if there was one thing i would base my atheism on, in which case, it would have been because the bible mentions Hell. (I'm not atheist)
So because i believe in the good aspects of the bible i must believe in the the bad ones.
It would be rather strange of me not too. Illogical. not a 'Cafeteria catholic'.
Anyway, what do you think this life is, a bloody party? Your here to reproduce as science claims? Yeh, that's it....its all a big coincidence. From the milky way right down to your personality. All a coincidence.
I tell you what, stephen hawkins might tell you how the universe is composed but he wont tell you why. He might be in denial about that one.
However if there was one thing i would base my atheism on, in which case, it would have been because the bible mentions Hell. (I'm not atheist)
So because i believe in the good aspects of the bible i must believe in the the bad ones.
It would be rather strange of me not too. Illogical. not a 'Cafeteria catholic'.
Anyway, what do you think this life is, a bloody party? Your here to reproduce as science claims? Yeh, that's it....its all a big coincidence. From the milky way right down to your personality. All a coincidence.
I tell you what, stephen hawkins might tell you how the universe is composed but he wont tell you why. He might be in denial about that one.
waitasec
Veteran Member
well why would the benevolent god of the bible create hell?
imo, there is no why...we don't have the capacity to understand, or do you give that much credit to the human species? if we can figure out why, then why haven't we figured out how to treat one another honorably?
tell you what, we know more now than ever and with the knowledge we have today, we know how small we are, so why do we need to believe in a god who's on "our side"?
There is a difference between the 'biblical hell' and the 'pagan hell' concept.
Jesus went to hell. -Acts 2vs27,31; Psalm 16v10
The biblical hell is the stone-cold common grave of mankind because the price man pays for sin is: death. The dead go to the biblical hell or gravedom.
What did Jesus believe about the condition of the dead?
Jesus had a well-rounded education in the Scriptures even by age 12.
Jesus knew the Hebrew OT Scriptures.
Jesus would have known that Solomon wrote: the dead know nothing. Ecc 9v5.
Jesus had knowledge of the Psalms. Such as:
Psalm 6v5 that in death there is no remembrance of God
Psalm 13v3 that the dead sleep the sleep of death
Psalm 115v17 that the dead do Not praise God
Psalm 146v4 that at death thoughts perish.
Jesus would have known Daniel wrote [12vs2,13] the dead sleep in the dust.
That is why Jesus himself likened death to a deep sleep at John 11vs11-14.
The Bible's hell is temporary. Hell comes to an end. Hell dies.
According to Rev [20vs13,14] all in the Bible's hell are 'delivered' up [resurrected]. Then, emptied-out vacant hell dies a symbolic second death.
A death of never existing again. That is why Rev [21vs4,5] can say that:
Death will be no more. No more death starting with Jesus 1000-year reign over earth.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
yeah well......
Do dead men dream?
What if they do?
And cannot awaken from the grave?
Nightmares....forever?
Dead men do not dream when in a deep sleep-like state as Jesus was comparing his friend at John 11 vs11-14.
All in the Bible grave will be awakened from death's unconscious sleep.
[Daniel 12vs2,13; Ecc 9v5]
Death is the price tag of sin. So death pays the asking price of sin as being 'Paid in Full' but no one can resurrect one self or another, so we need Jesus to do that for us. Jesus can and he will. - Acts 24v15; Romans 6 v7,23
Thief
Rogue Theologian
So you're leaning to life in the flesh....rather than spirit.
God is spirit...lives in heaven....
you want something else?
Jesus too was resurrected to the spirit realm and lives in heaven. Heb 9v24
Angels also are spirit creation and live in heaven.
Adam on the other hand was never a spirit creation.
Adam was created from the material/physical world.
If Adam had never sinned where would Adam be today?
Would Adam be in heaven,
or as offered to Adam to have everlasting life right here on a paradisaic earth?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
The garden appeared to be paradise.
But it was an isolated place...for the alteration God performed there.
Once the alteration was made...the garden was dismantled.
It had served it's purpose.
All men die.
No exceptions.
That we live on...after we surrender our last breath....
is a choice made by heaven.
Where or what is this "alteration"?
We were meant to live forever. But because Adam fell into sin and imperfection we do not. So we must now wait for Jesus as reigning king to bring us everlasting life again. That is the true worth of his sacrifice. The bible even speaks of people gaining everlasting life (on earth) at Ps 37:10-11, 29, Rev 21:3-4. Mark 10:29-30 and many other scriptures
Thief
Rogue Theologian
And your dogmatic rant for Jesus doesn't help the topic flow.
This is a lengthy thread.
Have you read my previous postings?
Just because the Garden of Eden was at the crossroads of the Tigress and Euphrates rivers does not necessarily mean isolated.
Weren't Adam and Eve to have children and together with their children and children's children, etc. enlarge that sample garden and expand Eden until that garden covered the whole earth in blooming paradisaic beauty?
Right. All men die because all sin. If we could stop sinning we would Not die.
So, until the end of Jesus millennial reign over earth when humankind will have reached the perfectly healthy sound human perfection of heart, mind and body that sinless Adam had at his creation we will continue to die up to that time.
Do the 'sheep' of Matthew 25v32 ever die, or do they go off right into everlasting life? Since they are not dead that means they can remain alive right here on earth with the possibility of living here forever as was originally offered to Adam.
Those 'sheep' will be here on earth to see the earthly resurrection of those who are not resurrected to rule with Jesus in the heavens for 1000 years.
- Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Confusion.
That we die is natural.
All chemistry fails.
Nothing of flesh is forever.
Die in sin?
Unworthy to walk in spiritual life?
That is possible.
So it is written...'do not die the second death...'