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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.
- Thread starter mickiel
- Start date
Heneni
Miss Independent
You are trying to give satan NO personality or emotion, yet the destruction you say he brings is clearly linked to emotion, hate, jealousy, malice, fear. If he wasnt an expert at emotion, id say he had none.
I think that you are trying to be gods PR officer. It would be so nice to BAIT people towards god with your idea of universal salvation. You think that people will be drawn to a god that will save them all. And they will be drawn to a god that saves everybody. But that is just another way of rebellion. I love god when he's nice, but i dont like a god that requires me to take responsibility for my own choices. Its a form of stubborness. I wont respond to god if he acts like that...but if he were nicer i might give him a go!
If god almighty is as powerful as you say he is, and he is going to use this power to save us all, then why did he not use that power to keep us from needing rescue in the first place. And saying that satan was created to be a destroyer is just bolony.
If there is any scripture in the bible that hints towards god creating a destroyer, it would be for the purpose of destroying evil. Now if god created satan to destroy evil, id say hes not getting a bonus this year.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Well your views are common interpitation, of which I hold no intrest in. Nor am I interested in doing PR for God, he does not need that. In Isaiah 54:16 God comes right out and states that he created the destroyer to ruin things. And rather than give you a bible study on God creating Satan to destroy, because I hold no intrest in convincing you of anything, I simply state what I believe. I couldcareless what you think about my beliefs. I really don't.
And God couldcareless what humans understand about his doings.
Peace.
Heneni
Miss Independent
Yes I understand fully...god WILL save me, whether I like it or not! :slap: And you know...you dont have to care what i think to present your studies on 'the destroyer'.
Id just find it silly if satan was created to destroy evil. If Satan is going to wipe everything out, then he is just about as suicidal as the next guy. If he destroys everything, that would have to imply he destroys everything that is good and evil. Which means he destroyes god, (good). But he cant do that, you said god is powerful, so the only thing for satan to destroy is evil. So he'd have to shoot himself in the foot then. Willingly.
AK4
Well-Known Member
The thing is even Satan will be saved. Satan is part of Gods creation that must go through the lake of fire to have their carnal mind purged from them. Dont even think of saying satan doesnt have a carnal mind. When it is stated that God will be ALL IN ALL, reconcile all things to Himself, etc etc that has to include satan who gets thrown into the same LOF as us all. Otherwise God couldnt be all in all and then stupid man will have an argument that they hold to God saying he wont save all men. Dont you see it.Dont limit God. Can God change satan from a destoyer to a good angel? Yes my God has the power to do ANYTHING. This shows how much love He has for ALL HIS CREATION.
Heneni
Miss Independent
Well, that didnt take you too long. Satan must be thrilled to bits that you believe he will be saved as well.
Since we are all going to heaven lets live it up! What you say? Lets kill each other, rape each other, lie, steal...anything you want...go for it! Gods gonna save us....and satan.! :help:
Whoever you obey becomes your master. And whoever your master is...to him you must go.
You see your whole universal salvation theory sounds so wonderful. And surely a loving god would want to see us all there in heaven with him. I mean he is just longing for us to just realise what a cool guy he is. He is so sweet and lovable and he's just so forgiving.
Jesus came to this planet (hell) to save us. Why? Cause we needed saving....WHY? ...cause YOU got yourself in this pickle. If you like it here, you may stay here.
But as you might have noticed your still here in hell. If he saved us on the cross why are you not in heaven right now? You are still here, BECAUSE you need to be restored to a type of being that BELONGS in heaven. God is not going to come and dazzle us with his glory and seduce us into loving him, so that we life happily ever after. That type of love is superficial and wont last a day, never mind for eternity.
The whole salvation thing happened while jesus was on the cross. It doesnt happen when we get raptured or when jesus comes back to rule the planet or when you pray the sinners prayer. It happened then. IF you were IN christ when he died, you were translated out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of light. Jesus said. IT IS FINISHED. There is no SAVING that is going to happen in the future. (accept being delivered from our body of death).
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Again in Isaiah 54:16, God gives the purpose of satans creation, he was created to destroy and to ruin things. In Isaiah 45:7, God says that he is the one who formed light and darkness, that he created evil, that he caused it. In vs. 9 God says woe to the one who quarrels with his maker, and ask his maker, " What are you doing?" God does not consider our opinions about what he has done and will do in the future. In Prov. 16:4;" The Lord made EVERYTHING for ITS OWN PURPOSE, even the wicked for the day of evil. The purpose for satans creation, was to represent evil, to be evil, not to have a repentant future with God. God had nothing to oppose him, but he wanted oppisition to be present in his creation of humanity. So he had to create the oppisition, and they werenot created to have a future with God. They were created to destroy.
In Jeremiah 4:6, we can see the mentality of God, he will bring Evil to destroy things. He will use it, and he will destroy it itself. In 2Sam. 12:11, God will even bring evil into a home. He will take a mans wife and give that mans wife to his companion and make him lie with his friends wife in broad daylight. You can't figure out the things God does, and he does not care what we think about him.
God is using satan, and when he is finished using him, he will dispose of him.
And there is nothing anyone can do about it.
Peace.
In Jeremiah 4:6, we can see the mentality of God, he will bring Evil to destroy things. He will use it, and he will destroy it itself. In 2Sam. 12:11, God will even bring evil into a home. He will take a mans wife and give that mans wife to his companion and make him lie with his friends wife in broad daylight. You can't figure out the things God does, and he does not care what we think about him.
God is using satan, and when he is finished using him, he will dispose of him.
And there is nothing anyone can do about it.
Peace.
Heneni
Miss Independent
God created satan to destroy, and when he is done with him, he will dispose of him. Did satan get that memo? :sarcastic
Oh my gosh...satan must destroy everything. So god creates stuff calls it good and then gets satan to destroy it cause he changed his mind. So god is actually our enemy. He made us, liked us, doesnt like us anymore and put satan on us to get rid of us. LOL!!!! Its just getting better as we go along.
What was that you said about god saving all of us??????? Are you sure he still likes us?:slap:
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Again, I hold no intrest in your scarcasm, nor can I guide your understanding. It was Gods idea to create positive and negative, good and evil, then place them into the creation of man to expose us to it. So God is getting something out of it, and knowing a little about God, we all are somehow going to benefit from it. When God created the garden of Eden, he also created the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and placed both good and evil in the same tree, meaning he put both in the environment of man.
In Rev.12:9, it describes satan as a being who has " Deceived the whole world." In Romans 11:32, it states that God has shut up the whole world into disobedience, literally locked us all into behavioral patterns. This means God is using evil in our creation, he wants us exposed to it. BECAUSE of this, our salvation is secured, because God wouldnot expose us to evil, only to judge us for falling from the weight of it.
Peace.
Heneni
Miss Independent
It was the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil. I dont know how you made the deduction that god created EVIL? Knowledge of evil, doesnt mean god created it. The tree was put there to ensure that eve and adam would always have what god considers important. ...A CHOICE. But when they ate of it, he wasnt happy.
You are right that god pinned us all up for disobedience, that is WHY we are all here. You, me, tom and harry are all equally bad. Else youd be in heaven and id be in hell. (earth)
So we have nothing to boast about or anything that we can use to compare ourselves with each other, and pretend the one is better than the other. But we have a way to return to god. Not everybody wants to return to god.
And maybe you think i'm sarcastic, but really what i'm trying to do, is exaggerate things a little so that you can THINK about what you are saying.
GOD IS LOVE! does not = everyone goes to heaven. Who decided that the one should be equal to the other?
GOD IS LOVE = satan gets kicked out of heaven. (what about that?)
AK4
Well-Known Member
You are there Mickiel. Try out this website you will learn even more brother. bible-truths.com. There you will see all the exposed lies this world has been introduced to. Even it explained why satan will also be saved. And the myth of free will.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
I hold no intrest in L Ray Smith, nor anyother teacher. I depend soley on the power that influences me, and need nothingelse. I am not against bible-truths.com, but I am not interested in it, for my own reasons. My learning is already secure in the space it is in. My eyes alreay see, because of the power that influences them. What others see is of no concern of mine.
I hold to no particulars, no organizations, no websites, no churchs, I walk alone in my life. And I like it that way. I am not against groups who have banded together, numbers in unity have their place, but such is not for me. I prefer tostand on my own, with nothing between me and the God I would like to one day come to know.
Peace.
AK4
Well-Known Member
Well, that didnt take you too long. Satan must be thrilled to bits that you believe he will be saved as well.
:help:
Whoever you obey becomes your master. And whoever your master is...to him you must go.
You see your whole universal salvation theory sounds so wonderful. And surely a loving god would want to see us all there in heaven with him. I mean he is just longing for us to just realise what a cool guy he is. He is so sweet and lovable and he's just so forgiving.
Jesus came to this planet (hell) to save us. Why? Cause we needed saving....WHY? ...cause YOU got yourself in this pickle. If you like it here, you may stay here.
But as you might have noticed your still here in hell. If he saved us on the cross why are you not in heaven right now? You are still here, BECAUSE you need to be restored to a type of being that BELONGS in heaven. God is not going to come and dazzle us with his glory and seduce us into loving him, so that we life happily ever after. That type of love is superficial and wont last a day, never mind for eternity.
The whole salvation thing happened while jesus was on the cross. It doesnt happen when we get raptured or when jesus comes back to rule the planet or when you pray the sinners prayer. It happened then. IF you were IN christ when he died, you were translated out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of light. Jesus said. IT IS FINISHED. There is no SAVING that is going to happen in the future. (accept being delivered from our body of death).
Can you see all the contradictions in your statements here? Of course you cant--Do the decived know that they're decieved?
No satan must not know just like all these other humans and you who fail to believe that God will purge the carnal mind out of all His creation. Yall carnal minds refuse to believe the plain Word of God.
Go ahead live it up...You will weep and gnash your teeth for it though and then realise how stupid you were for rejecting God in this life. When you go through the LOF it wont be pleasant but you will be saved, "yet do by fire"
Your contradictions---
Quote:Jesus came to this planet (hell) to save us. Why? Cause we needed saving....WHY? ...cause YOU got yourself in this pickle. If you like it here, you may stay here.
--Since we stay here, where is Jesus to set up His Kingdom? Aint it on earth as it is in Heaven? What does that say about those who stay here?
when jesus comes back to rule the planet
Why is He coming back to stay RULING THE PLANET IF THOSE WHO HAD THEIR BODY CHANGED AND ARE IN HEAVEN NOW?--FOR HEAVENS SAKE WHY WILL JESUS STILL BE HERE RULING EARTH WHEN ONLY ONES THAT ARE SAVED ARE NOW IN HEAVEN? WHO IS HE RULING?
Think about that for a second
AK4
Well-Known Member
I am just the same. No church, etc, etc, etc, but as for L. Ray Smith--he is the only person i have read material by who has spoken/written about the Word and actually uses scripture right. I cannot deny him that. But i guess to each their own
mickiel
Well-Known Member
I agree with some things you see Heneni, but I disagree that God gave Adam and Eve a choice. Oh how I disagree with that. In fact, God did so many things to influence their choice, that it is obvious to me. God allowed satan into the garden, THAT alone doomed the young couple, they were like candy in the great serpents hand, absolutely no match for him whatsoever. And God KNEW this. They were TOTALLY outclassed, had no chance or choice at all.
Gen. 3:1;" Now the Serpent was MORE crafty, or wise, than any beast of the field that God HAD MADE! So God made the serpent, it is included in the things God had made. God made Adam and Eve, and the serpent was far more wise than them. Thats 2 strikes against Adam and Eve, God exposed them to this powerful being, and the being was far greater than them.
In fact, satan didNOT even have to use lies to deceive the couple, he used the truth! Read it for yourself in vs. 2-4. It was short and sweet, the devil wiped out Adam and Eve in mere seconds, with only two remarks that he gave them. He said" From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat, but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, you shallnot eat from it or touch it, lest you die." Truth and fact, God did say this, no deception here.
Then satan speaks again; " You shallnot truly die. For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and Evil." Truth and Fact, they didnot die, in fact, they lived a whole lot longer than any of us have lived. And they did learn about Good and Evil. No deception here. Satan just pounced on them with the truth, and Eves greed led her to eat, and Adams Love and lust for Eve led him to eat.
God hadNOT prepared them for this, in fact, they were so nieve, they didnot even know they were naked. In vs. 7, it says after they ate, " Their EYES WERE OPENED", an obvious reference to the fact that before this, their eyes were CLOSED! Meaning God hadNOT opened them to the wisdom they would need to make the right choices, so this was NOT about their choices, it was about God manipulating their choice.
Peace.
Heneni
Miss Independent
Id just like to thank you for exposing yourself. Whenever a christian says that somebody else is blind or deaf it usually means.....
'.....I have no idea how to answer properly so we will try to insinuate that the other person is a moron by calling them blind or deaf. Better make them look stupid before they find out i am'
I sympathise.
AK4
Well-Known Member
Sorry i wasnt calling you stupid. you took that all wrong. i was calling the decision stupid. When you realise something that was so obvious that has happened in your life, most people critise the DECISION they made as stupid. Someone knowing that God hates murder and they go out and murder because they know they will be saved anyway is a MAKING A STUPID DECISION
AK4
Well-Known Member
Okay
. Anyway answer these questions---Quote:Jesus came to this planet (hell) to save us. Why? Cause we needed saving....WHY? ...cause YOU got yourself in this pickle. If you like it here, you may stay here.
--Since we stay here, where is Jesus to set up His Kingdom? Aint it on earth as it is in Heaven? What does that say about those who stay here?
when jesus comes back to rule the planet
Why is He coming back to stay RULING THE PLANET IF THOSE WHO HAD THEIR BODY CHANGED AND ARE IN HEAVEN NOW?--FOR HEAVENS SAKE WHY WILL JESUS STILL BE HERE RULING EARTH WHEN ONLY ONES THAT ARE SAVED ARE NOW IN HEAVEN? WHO IS HE RULING?
Think about that for a second
Heneni
Miss Independent
Okay
Quote:Jesus came to this planet (hell) to save us. Why? Cause we needed saving....WHY? ...cause YOU got yourself in this pickle. If you like it here, you may stay here.
--Since we stay here, where is Jesus to set up His Kingdom? Aint it on earth as it is in Heaven? What does that say about those who stay here?
when jesus comes back to rule the planet
Why is He coming back to stay RULING THE PLANET IF THOSE WHO HAD THEIR BODY CHANGED AND ARE IN HEAVEN NOW?--FOR HEAVENS SAKE WHY WILL JESUS STILL BE HERE RULING EARTH WHEN ONLY ONES THAT ARE SAVED ARE NOW IN HEAVEN? WHO IS HE RULING?
Think about that for a second
Alright Ill think about it....actually you know what...why dont we start a new thread about this...cause to tell you the truth, id really like to discuss this with you. I've been hoping someone would like to.
What do you say?